NM: Judge tell police to leave OCers alone

Originally Posted by Fallguy

There is no law against driving, so there is no assumption someone is breaking the law by driving.

everyone that drives breaks the law...sooner or later.... and yes i have been pulled over for doing the -3 mph to speed limit in a speed trap in dade county ga, the reason the officer pulled me over is he felt that it was out of the ordinary for someone to be not speeding, and then searched my car, (i gave permission to had nothing to hide, needless to say it took 45 min. waste of my time and will never consent again, so much for doing the right thing) the officer was pissed he couldn't find anything on me or in my car, stomped off and drove off, without the satisfaction of issuing a ticket while his buddies in 17 different cars were racking it up on the other side of the road.

but the officers should not assume your breaking the law until your breaking the law, the LEO should assume your following the law until breaking the law, the other way is just looking for trouble and could go to evidence in a case of harassment and civil rights violations.

Sorry Fallguy but there is a law against driving without a license just like there is against carrying a gun without a permit.

Originally Posted by PapaB

Sorry Fallguy but there is a law against driving without a license just like there is against carrying a gun without a permit.

I'm about done with this.....

There is not a law against carry without a permit. There is a law against carry, PERIOD. Then there is a seperate law that says if you have a HCP, are on your property etc.... it is a defense against the application of the law against possesion.

Yes, you have to have a license to drive. But there is no law that says the act of driving in-and-of-itself is against the law. If there is, please show it to me.

On firearms...
39-17-1307 says it is illegal to posses a firearm. PERIOD
39-17-1308 gives a list of defenses to 39-17-1307. So if you have a HCP or are on your property or the other things you can use those things to defend yourself to a LEO that you are not violating 39-17-1307

On driving
55-50-301 does say you must have a lisense to drive, but it is not a defense to a violation of another law. There is no law that says the act of driving is illegal.

Everyone keeps saying that it is the same...and it is not. If it is the same show me the motor vehicle law comprabable to 39-17-1307 on weapons. The law that says driving is an illegal act (Just like 39-17-1307 says firearms possesion is an illegal act) and that having a DL is a defense to that illegal act (like 39-17-1308)

http://www.michie.com/tennessee

Title 39, Chapter 17, Part 13 Weapons
Title 55, Chapter 50, Part 3 Application, Examination, and Issuance

Actually, I believe the law says it's illegal to carry a firearm if it's loaded or the ammo is near, plus being concealed--aka: intent to go armed. Really, technically by the law, if a firearm is not concealed and there is no ammo on you/in reach, you have broken no law.

It's kinda confusing and here's why. 39-17-1307 says "A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm." Well, without ammo, it's hard to prove "intent to go armed." I know section 1308 says defense, but without intent to go armed, 1308 doesn't apply as it's not against the law. But when you have ammo in/near the gun since intent to go armed, that's when "defense" kicks in.

What's most annoying is that carrying a firearm is a right, but we have laws against it. Driving is NOT a right, but it's easy to get a license and there's not a long section of where you can and can not drive, etc. We really have our laws turned around when it comes to "rights".

Matthew

BTW, where is the defense to shooting a gun on someone's property? (with permission.) The 1308 only mentions THE person's property/premises and nothing about other people's property. Or is the law just overlooked?

Matthew

Originally Posted by PapaB

Sorry Fallguy but there is a law against driving without a license just like there is against carrying a gun without a permit.

Your trying to kick a dead horse. The law is unfortunately what it is. The difference between driving without a license and carrying a firearm is--the police won't know whether you do or do not have a driver license until they conduct a traffic stop on you. In contrast--it is quite obvious who is and is not carrying a gun when you OC, and in Tennessee--the police can stop you long enough to determine if you have a permit.

I very much would like to see state law changed to permit the carry of a firearm without a permit. I would also like to see there be no necessity for "Defenses to carrying"--because if possession of a firearm is legalized without a permit--both OC and CC...then there is no need for a defense to carry.

If you want the law changed--write and call your state legislators and stay on them about legalizing possession and carry of a firearm without a permit. Arguing with Fallguy isn't going to change the law.

The bottom line is--we should not have to purchase a privilege. So speak to your legislators and help get the law changed so that we can carry without a permit.

Originally Posted by macville

Actually, I believe the law says it's illegal to carry a firearm if it's loaded or the ammo is near, plus being concealed--aka: intent to go armed. Really, technically by the law, if a firearm is not concealed and there is no ammo on you/in reach, you have broken no law.

it is against the law to carry a gun. your permit is a defense to that...ammo, or no ammo.

Originally Posted by macville

It's kinda confusing and here's why. 39-17-1307 says "A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm." Well, without ammo, it's hard to prove "intent to go armed." I know section 1308 says defense, but without intent to go armed, 1308 doesn't apply as it's not against the law. But when you have ammo in/near the gun since intent to go armed, that's when "defense" kicks in..

You dont need ammo to use the gun as "armed" the person you point it at doesnt know about the ammo status.

Originally Posted by macville

What's most annoying is that carrying a firearm is a right, but we have laws against it. Driving is NOT a right, but it's easy to get a license and there's not a long section of where you can and can not drive, etc. We really have our laws turned around when it comes to "rights".

Carrying a firearm is not a right in TN, its a priviledge...you pay for it...

The good Judge is grandstanding; I suspect his decision will be overturned.
These cops didn’t stop a guy on the street and harass him; they were called by a citizen that had concerns and wanted them to respond.

Originally Posted by DaveTN

The good Judge is grandstanding; I suspect his decision will be overturned.
These cops didn’t stop a guy on the street and harass him; they were called by a citizen that had concerns and wanted them to respond.

But how far are the cops supposed to go when someone is not committing any crime, just because someone called?

Aren't they supposed to enforce the law, not the policy of a business?

If the theater manager asked the guy to leave or asked the police to make him leave, that may have been different, but that apparently isn't what happened.

If a person doesn't like others chewing bubble gum and calls the police about someone blowing a bubble, are the officers supposed to detain the person, take his bubble gum and ask him a bunch of question, just because someone called them?

Originally Posted by macville

Actually, I believe the law says it's illegal to carry a firearm if it's loaded or the ammo is near, plus being concealed--aka: intent to go armed. Really, technically by the law, if a firearm is not concealed and there is no ammo on you/in reach, you have broken no law.

I think that may be correct, or very close to it.

Before I got my HCP, I had to pick up a Ruger .357 Blackhawk from the local Sheriff's Office after it was stolen from me.

When the officer handed me the gun I began to wrap it in a towel. He quickly stopped me. He informed me that I could not wrap the gun in a towel because it would then be concealed.

The same officer told me that I could walk the streets with it on my head or a necklace for all he cared, but I could not walk in public with it concealed in a towel.

If what this officer told me is in fact the truth, carrying a gun in public - without an HCP - is not against the law.