1851, 1860, 1861 revolver comparisons

[Mark@Sea]

http://www.emf-company.com/images3/1851-navy-steel.jpg
1851 Colt 'Navy'. .36 Caliber originally (also available as a .44 reproduction which is historically incorrect.), Octagonal Barrel (7.5"). Loading lever hinges by means of a double pin type arrangement. Note frame at front of cylinder.




http://www.emf-company.com/images3/1860-army-steel.jpg
1860 Colt Army. .44 Cal. 8 inch round barrel, uses the same size frame as the .36 caliber 1851 Navy revolver. Barrel assembly is relieved at the front of the cylinder. The barrel on the 1860 Army has a forcing cone that is visibly shorter than that of the 1851 Navy, allowing the Army revolver to have a longer cylinder. Loading lever is a single hinge pin with pegs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Armystockfull.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Armystockfull.jpg)
Stocks are available to fit the 1851 and the 1860, but the pistols' frame must have the appropriate cuts and oversized screws.


1861 Colt Navy. .36 Caliber. Visually identical to the 1860 Army, for all intents the same gun, only in a smaller caliber. Shoulder stocks are NOT listed for the 1861, but the 1860 stock will fit, although I am advised some fitting is required.

[xd shooter]

Does anyone do the SS in the cap & ball. They sure are sharp. Mark I do like the rounded barrel better looks good!

[Mike.357]

I really have not seen much C&B in SS. Ruger used to make the Ruger Old Army, it was in stainless. The ROA is a total bastard gun much like the Uberti Cattleman 1873 is. And like the 1873 from Uberti, Ruger does not hide the fact that it is not an authentic BP era pistol. They are out of production but can still be found NIB as well as used. I believe the Ruger is about the best made percussion pistol ever made.
But be ready to pay top dollar for them, 400 to 500 bucks.

[Mike.357]

And as for the rifle/shoulder stock for the percussion revolver, they are an interesting curio. But be very careful to not shoot the gun "rifle" style by holding the gun ahead of the cylinder. It could get ugly and painful in a hurry.

[Mark@Sea]

Oh yeah, a chainfire with that setup could cost you some fingers. The off hand should support the firing hand, NOT any portion of the pistol forward of the cylinder.
One other minor correction - the '51 and the '61 typically have the post front sight, while the '60 has a blade.
Not aware of any stainless colts, although I have seen a nickel plated one, if you are into that sort of thing. Large money for that one, though - check Cabelas BP Pistol page.

Mike, now you got me back into this, darn you, I'm thinking about finding a .44 1860, taking 3 or 3.5 inches off the barrel, relocating the front sight and seeing what can be done to slick it up a bit. I'd like to find one of those fluted cylinders for that project... Another strange thought - putting a stocked pistol together with a 12 inch barrel, and some sort of ladder rear sight on the barrel. Franken-gun!!!

[Mike.357]

I have seen pics over on THR of and 1861 snubbed up. It was different looking. I think it had a two inch barrel, can't remember if it had a front sight.

I have not seen firsthand any BP revolver with a fluted cylinder other than my 1873.
I have seen them in pic and I like the way blued fluted cylinders look.

Once you start looking around here in the internet you can find all kinds of revolvers.
Just got to hit up the right sites.

here is a decent link for general info, it is a e-zine all about BP
http://www.blackpowderrevolver.net/index.html

oops, you will not like this at all ,LOL item 1765 and 1766 specifically, LOL
scroll through the page and you will see them
http://www.buffalobillsshootingstore.com/muzzleloaders.html

[Mark@Sea]

XD, check that second link out - fair to good price on some lightly used pistols. That ivory grip jobbie for 199 =- please buy it before I do. Really.

[xd shooter]

Mark that is a sharp peice. I will see what I can do! lol. I do like the ivory grips too, along with the fluted wheel.

[Mike.357]

Mark if you did shorten up a BP revolver you would need some sort of loading contraption for the cylinder. Even if you were able to come up with a way to shorten the loading lever I am not sure you could get proper leveredge to use it easily enough. Of course being in .36 it will be somewhat easier to load. My Remington is 5.5 inches and while I can do it with the lever a loading stand works so much easier.
But then again the cylinder comes right out of the '58. Not a deal breaker on your Colt repro I am sure but something to be aware of. I have loaded my 51 Navy's with the loading doohicky. It just takes an extra step to remove the cylinder. But then again it is just another layer of fun to be had ,LOL

[Mark@Sea]

A short, narrow pipe would work fine as a loading lever extension - now to come up with some other nifty way to use it, and I'd have a genuine contraption.
XD, I was serious. You buying that pistola? Cuz otherwise, I am. You have first dibs, though, since it is just what you are looking for I think...

[Mike.357]

A short, narrow pipe would work fine as a loading lever extension
now to come up with some other nifty way to use it

off the top of my head, maybe the narrow pipe could hold extra balls?

It could be pinched at one end to hold the balls in and have a strap or clip attached on the ball dispensing end. The dispensing end would also fit over the shortened loading lever.

[Mark@Sea]

That, or spare nipple holder - nipple wrench?

Now that one tool alone makes BP worthwhile. Heh.

[xd shooter]

Mark, I do aprciate the offer for first dibbs. The funds are not holding up this week. You go ahead on that one who knows you may want to shed it one day.lol

[Mike.357]

Mark I like the idea of a nipple wrench.

I have bought a couple of them and they do not hold up. Either they are too soft or too brittle.

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, this place in Greenville that has the black - got a phone number for them? I suddenly find myself in need of FG.
Or 2FG would work.
And some cannon fuse.
Sue is ROFL.
Thats' all I'm gonna say, but the next meet I'm home for is gonna be a hoot.

XD, called them, it sold a couple days ago. We're both outta luck - but I am gonna bookmark and keep an eye on that site. Fair prices, and if you can get a steel frame for 200, you oughta snag it.

[Mike.357]

Mark the place is called Hearthstone Guns. It is in Afton TN. 3625 Snap Ferry Rd.
Phone number is 423-638-7747

Here is a link for a map.

http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=3625%20Snapps%20Ferry%20Rd%20Afton%20TN&mag=5&ard=1#mvt=m&lat=36.210396&lon=-82.769433&mag=5&zoom=14&q1=3625%20Snapps%20Ferry%20Rd%20Afton%20TN&gid1=14978727

fg and cannon fuse? I can't wait!

[towerclimber37]

XD, check that second link out - fair to good price on some lightly used pistols. That ivory grip jobbie for 199 =- please buy it before I do. Really.

Ivory is fine..but if you show up with something with pearl handles, I'm gonna have to quote Patton...

Pearl handles are for women and New Orleans' Pimps!

[Mike.357]

That ivory handled gun was sweet looking.

I agree about pearl handles being ornaments on pimp guns.

[Mark@Sea]

Sue's latest is a 32 S&W - nickel w/pearl handles.

[towerclimber37]

here's Julie's latest. ugly but quite the little sewingmachine!

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/towerclimber37/Keltecp32.jpg

[xd shooter]

Mark I will be on the lookout for another deal like that. If you see another good deal & feel like passing on it please post it. WE spent a little too much on the tax free weekend.

[Mike.357]

woman can have pearl grips without them being pimp guns

[Mark@Sea]

XD, I'll keep an eye out for you.

Yeah, those pearl grips are snazzy but not quite my speed...

[Mike.357]

Mark do you know where that place is on Snap Ferry Road?

Tower I want to see Julies new gun shoot the black stuff ,LOL

[Mark@Sea]

No, Mike, but I will be on the lookout for it next time I'm there.
I am coming home this weekend, but only for the weekend.

Managed to get a couple of pounds of 3Fg Goex here in Norfolk. That should hold me a while. I'm told I got a package, so I think TNMedics' mold is at the house (thanks! TN). Bought 4 tins of CCI #11's, hope I got the right caps. 4.75 a tin, here.

Tower, I will leave that '51 out for you, you can pick it up next time you make it by the house.

No worries about something for Julie to shoot at our BP Rendezvous. How about this?
http://www.cherrys.com/pedpics/s328b.jpg

[Mike.357]

Nice looking flinter there Mark. I am really thinking it might be a good choice should ammo purchases be taxed to death.

#11's will work I am pretty sure. I can use #10's on my '51 Rebel Navy but to be honest they are not reliable. A lot of the time it takes two strikes to set off the cap. #11's go on the first try. But there is a chance of the cap falling off, so pinching it down is key.

The CCI caps are heavier and a little harder to pinch than Remingtons. I like the Remington better but I do use both. 4.75 is a great price for them.

What did you pay for the fff?

[Mark@Sea]

About 20 a pound for the fffg. Got a pound of 4fg for priming the flinters, too. Same price. The pyrodex is running about 14 a pound. What do caps run at home? I thought about buying more than 4 tins, but wasn't sure about it.

[Mike.357]

I can get Remington at Bass Pro or Gander for just under 5 bucks a tin.
CCI I get at a outdoorsman/primitive weapon/hunting goods store. They are 5 bucks for the #10's and 7.50 for the #11 magnums, ouch! I do not buy many magnums unless I can't get Remingtons at Gander Mtn. The guy at the outdoors store does make me a good deal on .454 balls though. better than I can get anywhere else, internet included. so i buy all my lead balls from him. Real nice guy too. I am guessing if I asked he would knock some off the caps as he does on the balls. But I like the Remingtons better anyway.

Goex PB was just over 20 I think, and Pryo is over 20 as well.

What I really need is a flask that measures 20 grns of fff or pyro.
I use a dipper or cartridge to measure my charge now. No big deal really.

[Mark@Sea]

I was looking at flasks last night. I need a primer flask for the 4F, a pistol flask, and a larger flask that will dispense an 80 grain charge... best net deal I found is the regular colt flask for 20 bucks. Unscrew the spout, pour in whatever measured charge you want to use, mark the powder line with a sharpie. 5 minutes with a dremel, a file, and some sandpaper, and you're set. Put your index finger over the tip of the spout, invert and work the spring-loaded valve, and you've got your 20 grains, or whatever.
Haven't found a spout large enough for the 80 grain charge yet.
Want me to order you a colt flask? Might as well save the shipping fee, put it in with my order.

[Mike.357]

Yeah Mark that would be great. I don't know why I never thought about cutting the tip down. I have found that 20 grains works good in all my stuff, 30 is max I shoot but really unless hunting is involved it is a waste of powder.

I use instant grits for filler between the powder and ball. Grits are dirt cheap. Powder is not.

if you can do it let me know what I owe and I will leave it with Sue at our shoot up there in a few weeks.

[Mark@Sea]

Just ordered it, $22, it'll be there when you come up for the shoot. How about trading for balls? 44, 36, or 50's.

[Mike.357]

We could do a trade.

I get .454 balls for 11 bucks a hundred out the door. They are Speer brand, nice and soft.

I am stopping there Friday to get some. I bought the last box last week and asked him to order 4 or 5 more. He does that and puts them on the shelf but I am the only one buying so far. His shelf price is 13.95 but I get a better deal :)

What size 50 would you be looking for?

PS: Sue is not going to shoot me for getting you hyped up for
BP is she? LOL

[Mark@Sea]

Probably about .490....
I THINK I ordered the flask, and a 20 grain spout, but lost 'net and will have to wait and check my home e-mail to see if they processed the order. Don't wanna order twice.
Don't think she minds too much - she still giggles at me about the cannon.
Out the door and on the road for the next 10 hours or so...

[Mike.357]

I had a dream about your cannon last night, LOL it was weird.

What does it shoot? I asked you in my dream last night and you answered
"number 7's"

What the heck is a number 7?

[Mark@Sea]

Hi Mike, sorry for the late reply.
As far as I know, #7 was a mule in the Grizzly Adams TV series.

The cannon arrived yesterday - what a hoot! 80 grains of 2F makes a dandy boom. I have some .690 balls on order, and some fuse. I shot wads and used 4F in the touchhole, worked like a champ. Also fired my 2 flintlock pistols. The cleaning chore was not as bad as I thought it might be; the hoppes #9 BP formula works well, and I also used Butchs' Bore Shine and Iossol, came out pretty good last night.
Managed to find 1 box of .50 ball for the flintlocks yesterday. Mahoneys or Wideners probably have 36 and 44, but I don't really have time this weekend for that.

[Mike.357]

I will get you two boxes of .454 balls for the .44. I stopped by there today but UPS had not come yet. Anyway he assure dme he ordered them and I can pick them up at my convenience.

Can't wait to see this cannon in action, and I guess we better not shoot any mules.

I bet them flinters were sweet.

[Mark@Sea]

What a day! Found that shop, picked up some powder and a steel frame 1860 .44 he had for $185 - XD, this makes my brass-frame 44 surplus, so if you want to make an offer, I'm open to it.
Saw an 1849, and I want one. Also, picked up my Remington Rand 1911 today. All in all, a good day.

[xd shooter]

Sounds like a really fun day. Sorry Mark I can't put a price on your stuff, though I am interested. PM me a shot at it.

[Mike.357]

Found that shop,


I have only been there one time and spent all of about three minutes there as time was at a premium.

It looked like a cool kind of place. I am hopeful I can stop there this Thursday. I think I am stuck running the Tri-Cities route this coming week, but am hopeful at any rate I can pick up some fff and have fifteen minutes to look around.

[Mark@Sea]

Updates:
The marbles sight is easy to install... especially with a drill press.

That brass frame gun is a remington, so not what you're looking for, XD.

On the road in the morning, back to the boat. Well, it was fun while it lasted....

[Mike.357]

remington


Shot mine today, about 50 rounds of .454 lead downrange propelled by 30 grains of Goex Pinnacle. Also put 15 rounds of .45 Colt through it using the conversion cylinder.

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, Track of the wolf sells measuring spouts for flasks, I ordered you a 20 grainer. Got me one, too, and a 30 for my flinters (both 50 cal), and a 65 for the cannon. That is 20 grains short of max charge, but I don't think I will care too much. The cannon balls came in today. Massive.

[Mike.357]

Track of the wolf sells measuring spouts for flasks, I ordered you a 20 grainer.


Cool, 20 grains is perfect for the '51 Navy. And it works fine in the Remington, I can't remember if I ever tried 20 grains in the 1873. In the 1873 30 grains of fff leaves just enough room for a ball. No need to use grits to get the ball closer to the forcing cone like I usually do with the Remmy and Navy.

[towerclimber37]

Julie said "that's just wrong" about your cannon, mark. she also said that the pistol you want her to shoot is "too pretty to shoot" :)
I will enjoy shooting cap and ball..I never got into it when you did, so I'll rely on Mike's tutelage to learn about the powder charges, size of balls and so on. I'll do some reading up on it as well!
I put in 67 hours in this week and didn't work last weekend..so almost 70 hours in 5 days.
we went to the aquarium today with my colleague and his wife. it was great! then out to a wonderful dinner.
tomorrow is range day. I will be meeting strickj and glockking at the range and I'm bringing 2 guys from my crew and julie and another wife, so it's going to be a fun day!!
hopefully, work will slow down a little bit after this last tower but I won't count on it.
It's good to see you get home! I look forward to seeing the cannon. ( I missed those posts I guess..so I'm curious to see what it is!)
I'll give you a call tomorrow.

[xd shooter]

Mark I'm just wanting something to get started with you soud like a good guy so I can trust what you say about the gun. Just figure what you need for it & let me know. We can work something out. I'm putting in some long hrs. right now so i'm a little late on the posts.

[Mike.357]

so I can trust what you say about the gun.


XD if Mark says something it is rock solid.

[xd shooter]

I could pretty well tell that by the things he says. That is the reason I keep talking with you two so much is because I'm trusting what you are saying. I would like to see about the Rem. from Mark but I can't call the price on something I have no idea the worth.

[Mike.357]

A lot about the Remmy would depend on the manufacturer.
Has that been mentioned on the subject yet? If so I missed it.

The brass frame would not scare me off. You just have to be careful to not continually shoot hot loads out of it. If you stayed at about 20 grains the gun would last forever. 20 grains is plenty of powder for most any application you would need short of bringing down a bear.

As for gun makers, Uberti is generally excepted as the best maker of BP reproductions, with Pietta a close second. Pietta is nice stuff though.
I have two Pietta pistols, including my Remington and they are well made.

There are some other makers like Armi San Marco and Armi San Paulo. They are little further down on the food chain but not necessarily bad or a problem to have. Just a little harder to get replacement parts for.

I think key to making an offer on his Remmy is to know who made it.

[towerclimber37]

XD,
I know what you mean about the long hours. I'm pulling them too.

[xd shooter]

Thanks for the info Mike. Yea tower it's rough, no weekend at all. I'm overhauling another Detroit engine & would you believe they want it done in two days? I'm just not falling for that anymore, when i'm done i'm done. Though i'm close now!

[Mark@Sea]

Hi folks, sorry for the late post. I just got back to the hotel (Norfolk). Hopefully home again in July.
XD, I don't know the make. My wife has it in a shadowbox in the guest bedroom. That may make it off limits, I'm afraid. She gets kinda funny about the ones she likes. Sometimes she still lets me shoot them... If she doesn't care (let me check first) I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 150. I will also keep looking on the net for something else - I like the Colts, they just look classier.
The prices at that store down by greenville beat 'net prices, they carry the black, and it is a neat place. Any chance you can make it there on the weekend?
In fact, any chance you can make it to a shoot in Kingsport? About a 4 hour ride for you, I think. If you can, post ahead of time. I'm sure Mike can bring his out to introduce you to the black.
Meanwhile, I will check the pawnshops here in Norfolk on my free saturdays (every other week while in the yards).
The cannon is small. Not tiny, but small. Shoots a .690 ball ahead of 80 grains of Fg. For such a small tube, it is an overachiever...
In other news, I made and replaced the firing pin on Sue's circa 1910 S&W .32 lemon squeezer, and put a scope on the AR while I was home. Also mounted the tang sights on Sue's '92 and my Henry 22. Word of advice - go with the Marbles, it is better made.
5 comes early, I am calling it a night...

[Mike.357]

Colts, they just look classier.


I'd argue that point :D The Remington '58 is the high water mark of authentic black powder pistols. Not near as plentiful during the nastiness in the early 1860's but it was surely the most desired of the two designs.
Mine is a 5.5 inch barrel, but I will be on the lookout for the long barrel one later this summer.

XD, if you want to go to the shoot you only really need to make it to Knoxville. I am sure you can carpool up there with us.

[towerclimber37]

Thanks for the info Mike. Yea tower it's rough, no weekend at all. I'm overhauling another Detroit engine & would you believe they want it done in two days? I'm just not falling for that anymore, when i'm done i'm done. Though i'm close now!
heh...I say add a 900.00 surcharge for express service and you'll see JUST how badly they need it in 2 days :)

[xd shooter]

Guys I would like to make the shoot on that side , but I think it is on the same day as Mid. Tenn shoot. This is going to be the first one I've gone to. Thanks for the offer on the ride Mike. Yes Mark I would be interested in the Remmy, just let me know how the wife feels.

[Mark@Sea]

XD, I just spoke to Sue - she doesn't mind if I sell that one, as long as I replace it with another for the shadow box. I expect that the shadow box would be a great place for my WWII issue 1911, so I am pm'ing you an offer.

[towerclimber37]

good..that shadow box needed some work anyhow...but I'm STILL proud of it!

[Mark@Sea]

Hold the phone, XD. PM sent on what may be a good deal...

[xd shooter]

Thanks fo the link Mark I will check into it a little further when I get home tonite. I'm done with that d*** engine, so now I can look again.

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, I want you to know, I blame you entirely. I hadn't messed with BP for years before you went and posted about it....

Look what I went and done....

http://possibleshop.com/images-pistol/83-315-a.jpg

And if I'd had the cash, I'dve gotten the 1849 pocket... Geez, Sue is gonna kill me.

By the way, Red Bear Trading has some decent prices too....
http://www.redbearhunting.com/shopping.asp?SubCategoryID=240

[xd shooter]

Mark do you think the 1851 you showed me would be a good shooter? I looked at it again looks good to me, but I don't know what i'm looking for.

[Mark@Sea]

XD, the kits present a host of challenges - you can read that as "a real PITA". Be prepared to spend a lot of time polishing a really flat finish out of something that isn't all that flat. Then there are the joys of bluing - which for most of us means cold-bluing. This means a smelly mess that you're gonna put on, and polish, strip off and re-do until you get a uniform color that sort of approximates blue, in a bad light. From a distance. On the bright side, a great way to find the places you didn't polish is to get a perfect cold-blue everywhere else. I promise, it'll happen at least once.
But hey, once you've filed, sanded, and polished to perfection, then gotten a beautiful bluing job involving no less than 3 different brands of instant blue kits at an average cost of $15 each, plus shipping, you will be presented with the invaluable opportunity to learn how to assemble and time the colt action. This is a real and almost-unknown skill, and is sure to come in handy again, if you live long enough. Be prepared to purchase spare parts - Aw, just skip the suspense and go ahead and have them on hand.

If you are referring to the already built item, Traditions now imports their firearms from a company called Ardessa (spanish). I've never seen or fired one, you might be able to find some info at one of the BP specific websites. It is hard to go wrong at that price, though. Just from looking at it, the only thing specific that comes to mind is that the grips are obviously 2 piece, and appear to be very dark. It doesn't have the annoying protruding screws or cuts in the shield for a stock. Other than that, all I can tell you is that his price for the 1862 pocket police is the second-lowest I've found on the net (I found the lowest an hour after placing my order, of course), and his shipping is very reasonable.

[Mark@Sea]

:D RE my last post - I hope I didn't come across as too enthusiastic about the kit guns. They are enjoyable, in much the same way that a migraine can be - you feel so good when it's over.....:D

[xd shooter]

I don't see it on their site, but about how long do you allow for shipping from Possible? The phone has been answered. It's on the way. Complete one that is. Now i'm gonna need to know what supplies i'm gonna need for this thing.

Yea Mark I was in the same boat as you I saw the post Mike put up of his collection & thought that would be neet. Now look at me already went out & ordered one LOL. oo thanks for the PM.

[Mike.357]

Glad to see you guys are getting in the spirit of things.

Mark that fluted cylinder revolver is beautiful. I love blued metal like that. Looks great.

I dunno about doing them kits, I do not have enough patience for them.

XD you will be hooked now, lol. feel free to ask questions. I am sure you will have them. One thing to consider for sure is a good set of screw drivers. I am not talking about the kind for working on cars or what not. But screwdrivers specific for gun work. Hollow ground I believe they are called. Your black powder revolver will need to be taken down each time it is shot. You will be suprised at the gunk that builds up inside the action of the gun. But hot water and dish soap works great for cleaning, Crisco or olive oil is where its at for oiling. Avoid Dino oils at all costs.

I am going to check out that link Mark, God help me with what I am guessing I will find, LOL

[xd shooter]

Dang yall, now I have to wait on this pistol & my HCP at the same time No problem on cleaning I like to clean my guns. Though I'm sure these will be quite different. Now gonna need to know about flasks, bullet molds, powders,& wadding. Please now all of it at once, I don't need steam comming out of my ears.

[Mark@Sea]

He told me he ships priority mail - so from there, figure 4 or 5 days tops. Probably 3.

Supplies - .454 balls, but .457 are better if you can find them. When you press the ball into the cylinder it should shave a ring of lead from the ball. Either size ends up the same, of course, but the larger ball will give you more bearing surface on the rifling, which will improve accuracy somewhat. If it doesn't shave that tiny ring of lead, get a bigger size asap, and for heavens sake, use a wad and cover the ball with crisco, to boot. Chain fires are not fun.
A powder flask, or at the least a powder measure. Consistency is the key to accuracy, and more powder does not necessarily correspond to more accuracy. Expect to play with charges until you find the most accurate, but it'll likely be in the neighborhood of 22 to 25 grains of fffg.
Wads. Oxyoke wonder wads, already lubricated. Do yourself a HUGE favor and buy some for .44
Powder. You may not be able to find the black, may have to use triple seven or pyrodex, but goex is your first choice. 3Fg. A pound is gonna go a long, long, long long, long way.
Caps... What works for one guy, or gun, may not be the ideal choice for another. I'm using CCI #11's at the moment, your mileage may vary. Get a tin of #10's and one of #11's, see which works the best for you. By that I mean consistent ignition, and the fired cap stays on the nipple, most of the time.
Black powder solvent. Either that or prepare to spend a lot of time with hot, soapy water.
Iossol bore cleaner. First thing you wanna do is either use a jag, or a .42 dowel, and take a good quality cleaning patch. Work the Iossol into it. Now run it through your new barrel a few times. Do this about a dozen times. You should feel resistance decrease significantly about halfway through. What you are doing is putting a final polish on the barrel, and it'll pay dividends in accuracy, reduced fouling, and ease of cleaning.
Bore butter. Coat the barrel and cylinder, inside and out, with a thick layer. Now put them in an oven, heat to say 125 for an hour or two. Wipe and clean with (non-petroleum based) black powder solvent.

Optional items - a capper, maybe. A nipple wrench. A bag of some sort, for the balls.
All I can think of right off hand, anyone else?

[xd shooter]

Now what is the bore butter, & why do you bake it? Also where was it to find molds for the bullets I have a melting pot & would love to get some more use of it other than fishing sinkers & spinner baits.

[Mark@Sea]

Bore butter is a non-petroleum based lubricant. You can find a recipe on the net, actually, and make it yourself. It seasons the metal - sort of like an iron frying pan.

[Mark@Sea]

Molds - try Track of the Wolf, for starters. Lee molds, I am told, are good but fragile. They have the advantage of not leaving a sprue in the casting. Best source for casting info is a board called Cast Boolits.

[xd shooter]

I guess I need to wait on the gun then mic the barrel to see which mold I need. I'm guessing I need to measure the small part of the bore. I will get it all little by little. Thanks for the info, It's off to bed for me. I'll check back in the morning to see if you have thought of anything else.

[gunslinger707]

I gotta quit reading this thread !!! I'm starting to git thuh B/P itch

[Mike.357]

The force is calling you Gunslinger, it is best to answer the call.

The best part of it is you can order a top of the line revolver and with some shopping around keep it under $200. Try that with a cartridge revolver.

For under $300 you can get a steel frame Remington and a spare cylinder from a place like EMF. You can find cheaper deals at places like Cabellas. But some of the places like EMF, Taylors and Cimmaron hold the manufacturers to high standards.
My Remmy came from EMF and it is the nicest revolver I own, and my '51 was dirt cheap from Cabellas and is a heck of a shooter.

There is nothing to not love about percussion revolvers.

That picture Mark posted is driving me wild, man I wants one of them bad. If I did not have four other C&B's already I know the order would have been placed.

I am trying my hardest to hold out for a .22 pump in stainless. LOL

[Mike.357]

Here is a pic of my 1851 Gunnison and Griswald knock off, bastard caliber being its in .44 but still awesome to shoot. Was next to free from Cabelas. Works great with 20 grains of fff and #11 Remington caps. I can use a little Instant Grits as a filler between ball and powder, or not. The filler gets the ball closer to the forcing cone and makes the gun more accurate, but it is not a requirement. A little Crisco over the ball and it is good to go.

This one is a Pietta. the grip is slighty larger than the grip on my 51 Navy made by Armi San Marco. It is even notched on the grip frame for adding on a shoulder stock,

http://www.tngunowners.com/photos/data/511/1851_Griswold_and_Gunnison.JPG

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, the one I just bought is the 1862 police; a .36 on an 1849 frame. Have you seen one of those yet? Just wish I could have found one with a 5 inch barrel (this'n is 6 1/2). Naturally, right after I ordered it from the possibles shop, I found the 5 1/2 bbl version at the last link I posted... 20 bucks cheaper. Oh well...

If all goes well, we'll play with it at the shoot. I should have time to break in the barrel beforehand.

[xd shooter]

Go for it gunslinger, why not sling some black.:)

[Mike.357]

break in the barrel beforehand


This is a new one to me, explain what you mean, I always just load them up and shoot them. Well aside from cleaning the packing oil off first.

[Mark@Sea]

Iossol on a patch/jag, worked through the barrel a few doz. times.
Got this from a thread on THR. A long-time BP shooter (who wrote a book on it, apparently) advised this method to 'hone' and smooth the barrel.
I tried it, and felt a noticeable change. And that bore shines!!

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, now this is really disgusting.
I found a source for fake ivory grips. One even has a saloon girl on it...

[Mike.357]

need to see the link for pho ivory grips

saloon girl might look good on my Navy, LOL

so do you think that Iossol will make a difference after a bunch of lead has been through the barrel? Aside from making is shiny does it make the gun more accurate?

I wonder why the manufacturer does not mention it?

I trust that authors opinion. I believe I know who you speak of from THR. I am suprised I did not see that on there. I am guessing it is on the sticky on their BP subforum. I will have to go and look later on when I get home.

[xd shooter]

Iossol bore cleaner. Will Thompson/Center bore cleaner be ok? I have some of this it is non-petroleum.

[Mark@Sea]

XD, iossol is something I've just recently seen myself. It seems to be very mildly abrasive. I also use butches bore shine - foulest smelling stuff I've come across in a while, but you'd be amazed what comes out of a 'clean' barrel with it.
Shop here in Norfolk carries iossol if you can't find it locally and think it worth the trouble. Let me know...

http://www.gripmaker.com/ look under the 'stars and garters' category

[gunslinger707]

Mike that G&G repro is a beauty ! Been looking around Cabelo's scratch scratch scratch !!!! lol

[xd shooter]

Where are you from gunslinger? You know scatching too much causes rashes. Mark about the only place I have to shop for supplies is BPS & AS if they don't carry it I may need to talk to you about getting me some (if you don't mind)

[Mike.357]

Gunslinger, Cabelas has nice enough stuff. I am not sure really what the differences are between what they sell and what some of the other retailers sell. I have read that some of the others hold the manufacturers to higher standards as to fit and finish.

My only comparison is the Remington from EMF and the Reb Navy from Cabelas. Both are Pietta. I will say that the Pietta from EMF is better in fit and finish. But the one from Cabelas is not shabby at all. The only flaw was in the edges of the grip where it met the frame near the hammer. I easily smoothed these out though so it was of no matter. Now the Uberti which I bought through Cabelas is real nice. I am not sure how it could have been better if bought from one of the more "Elite" suppliers. The Uberti 1873 is excellent in fit and finish. The action of the revolver is exceptional too.
About the only flaw I see is that the front sight needs to be filed down some. But I work on how much of the front sight sits above the frame while I aim it. I am not sure I want to go removing metal from it.

I do not know if this is still true but for a while Cabelas was offering the '58 Remington in steel frame for $169. Regualrly 199. Might be worth calling and asking if the Remmy is what you were leaning toward. If you were looking at a Colt you might like this one. the 1851 NAVY in .44 with case hardened frame. Price is pretty decent. http://www.possibleshop.com/cap-ball-closeout.htm
IMHO it would be worth is over a $139 piece from Cabelas. I believe the Traditions guns are made by Pietta.

[Mark@Sea]

I read a review today on THR of that '51 from the possibles shop. The buyer was very happy with it. Darn it, I want a '49, but I don't have a '51, either. Wheres' that eco-stimulus bribe money? Maybe I ought to get the '51 before they are sold out?

XD, I can pick up the iossol, no problem. Mailing might be an issue, I am working 6 days a week here in the yards - that is an improvement, it's 7 when we're sailing. Will do best I can, though, if you need it.

Gunslinger, you're gettin' itchy? "Dang it, Mike" ought to be my new sig line. I'm really looking forward to that '62 police. I know a 'smith down in Florida that does very nice old-method bluing, I have this dumb impulse to send him the barrel/cylinder for a charcoal blue, and the screws for a nitre-blue. I had him do something for me once in nitre-blue, it looks like blue chrome! Hmmm, I have a small plating kit, and the original brass trigger guards and backstraps were silver plated......

Dang it, Mike!

[xd shooter]

Mark if you could do that it may save me alot of gas.How bad of a problem would mailing it be? How much does it cost? would you like a check before or after? I do like to have the good stuff when I can afford it. I did get my bribe money but I have to buy plane tickets to Was. state for my son & I to see my sister.

gunslinger the 1851 Traditions is what I have on order from Possible shop. It may take me a little while to get a shot through it, but I will post about it.

[Mark@Sea]

XD, pm me your address, we'll sort it out when you get it in hand.

[Mike.357]

Hmmm, I have a small plating kit, and the original brass trigger guards and backstraps were silver plated

That pistol would look downright outstanding with silver plate. How much actual silver do you think it would take?

I have never blued anything before. I have removed bluing on the 51 Navy from ASM. Looks pretty darn good in white steel. Just need to keep it wiped down a bit with some light oil.

[Mark@Sea]

My little kit uses silver in solution. I'd have to check on the cost, likely less than $20.
Caveat - this method produces a very thin plate. For about twice that you can have it professionally plated - in fact there is a thread in the BP forum of THR that gives an address. I'd bet, though, there is a plating shop in Knoxville that'll do the job.
Bluing - there are a lot of different methods. Each has its' pros and cons. What Uberti is currently calling charcoal bluing isn't - it is actually a type of nitre blue. Leaves a beautiful finish that scratches easily and wears easily.
Carbonia, or gas-furnace bluing, gives a shiny blue that doesn't, to me, have much depth.
Charcoal blue, with the exception of one or two specialty shops, hasn't been done since the turn of the last century.
slow-rust blue is the authentic blue for these guns.

[gunslinger707]

XDShooter i'm in east Tn.near Kingsport I used to own 2 1851 F.I.E
repro's i gave them to my son's a few yrs ago. Mike the 1858 is 199.99 at Cabelo's now I'm torn between it and a 1860 Army !! lol

[Mark@Sea]

Dang it, Mike!

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j137/alde711/1849OpenBox.jpg

[Mike.357]

Wow Mark, that is a nice looking piece there. Uberti?

I wonder how practical the short loading lever is? Being .36 cal I am guessing it is usable. But it might be worthwhile to use some sort of cylinder loading platform.

does it have a front site? If so I am guessing it is a brass nub?

[Mike.357]

1858 is 199.99 at Cabelo's now I'm torn between it and a 1860 Army


Either one would be a nice choice. I am preferential to the Remmy but I have Colts as well. I am really just a big fan of how easy it is to remove the cylinder on the '58.
I have two percussion cylinders and one cartridge cylinder for mine. Load them all up and to me the shooting is more pleasurable.

Pretty much when I am shooting the percussion revolvers I load everything up at the same time. Sometimes I pull the barrel and cylinder on the Colt Navys sometimes I use the loading lever.

[Mark@Sea]

Want to try to find a few minutes to play with building the paper cartridges? I can pick up a pack of cigarette papers somewhere, I'm sure. Ought to be quick to reload those.
That'n above, that I just mailed off the payment for, is a purchase from a private seller. .31 caliber in a small frame, so the loading lever is even shorter than you think. I doubt it will make it home in time for the shoot. This one will probably get the slow-rust blue/silver plate treatment.
Sure am glad my wife doesn't read this forum!:death:

[towerclimber37]

see? I like the octagonal barrel better. I dunno why. I just do.

[Mark@Sea]

Hi Brother. Good to 'see' ya.
Hope you can make it to the shoot. We're planning on you and Julie having the guest room.

[Mike.357]

the octagonal barrel on that .31 is reminiscent of the '51 Navy and its shape.

You know I picked up some rolling papers a couple of months ago to try making cartridges with. Now don't you know that of all the ones the store had to choose from I picked some that do not have glue on the edges. Pretty much useless.
I will try to remember to pick up a pack of JoB 1.5 papers. I think the 1.5 will make it easier for a beginner like me to try this with.

and the guy I get balls from is wearing me out with this. They did not come in again this week. I am starting to get irritated with it. I spoke to him today and he promised me the guy in Chattanooga(his supplier) swore they shipped out yesterday. If so they will be in his store Monday. I am going to buy all he has assuming they come in. Anyway it sounds like a definite possible maybe that they will be there Monday.

I tried to talk my wife into coming along but she and her mom have plans Saturday.

Also not sure if I am going to do the camping thing or not. Not much point if'n I am the only one around.

[Mark@Sea]

Mike, if you haven't picked up the balls can I change my mind? Balls for the .36's would come in handier than the .44's at this point.

[Mike.357]

Okay, I will skip the balls for you then. I can just pay you cash for the powder dispenser.

i don't think the place I get them at has .375 lead.

[Mark@Sea]

Thankee!

[Mike.357]

That guy better get them .454 balls, I just sent the better part of what I had left downrange, LOL.

I was working on some Pyro loads. Seems 15 grains works better than 30+ grains. Used grits for filler on the 15 grain loads. I bleieve it helps if for no other reason than getting the ball closer to the barrel so it does not have to jump so far to get in the rifling.

Of course I was shooting the white steel '51 Navy, so I am not sure how that info will carry over to the G&G knockoff.

[Mark@Sea]

Well, Mike, I have a box of 454's. You think you'll shoot that much? Found a place with 1 box on the shelf, looked lonely so I brought it home.
Also have a 454 lee mold, double cavity round ball. You bring the lead, I'll light the fire. You can cast 'em up at the range, I guess.

[Mike.357]

thanks for the offer Mark, If I can't get more I might take you up on that.

Hopefully what I have ordered will come in. I will buy all that he recieves, LOL.
I think he told me he was getting in 500 rds.

Between three revolvers I might shoot 100 rounds. I am not going to bring the one I shot today.

[Mark@Sea]

I am not going to bring the one I shot today.

???

I'm figuring others are going to want to try the revolvers, I'll have all mine (except the brass remmie) down at the range. I should have 3 + the one for TC + the two flinters and the cannon.

By the way, Tower - thanks for the laptop. I'm sitting in this hotel room, without it I'd be bored out of what mind I have left.

[Mike.357]

the one I shot today was the first handgun I ever bought. It is about 30 years old. That in itself is not an issue but the trigger on it is an issue. I would not dare allow anyone else to shoot that revolver. I tell you, when the hammer is cocked look at it crossways or breath on it and it will discharge. It simply would not be safe. I will not even shoot it if there is anyone else around.

I will be bringing three percussion revolvers.

[Mark@Sea]

Well, 6 revolvers, 2 flinters, whatever Marswolf is bringing, and if we need 'em I'll haul out the old brass remington and the squirrel rifle. That orta do it, don't you think?

[Mike.357]

What is your squirell rifle?

I think between us with 6 revolvers we have it covered. It will be a regular old smoke screen fer sure.

[Mark@Sea]

What is your squirell rifle?

Its' a long thing that makes loud noises, but thats' not important right now. :D

Seriously, I've had it 10 years, I don't remember the make. Caplock. 45 cal, I think....