Cogressman Joe Wilson MY HERO

[colrmccoll]

His website has been overwhelmed. Does anyone know his email?

[9teeneleven]

You're either misinformed or dishonest. Here is what Obama said that Wilson called a "lie":

Section 246 states:

Affordability credits are subsidies for low-income people to effectively reduce premiums & cap out-of-pocket expenses. Ineligibility for the affordability credits in no way prevents illegals from enrolling in the insurance plans, including the public option. Rich people are ineligible for the credits, too, but they are certainly covered by the bill. Obama's plan, and the House bill, would "insure illegal immigrants" and Wilson was therefore accurate in his charge.

You're obfuscating. Illegals can enroll in private healthcare now . What they will be excluded from is any government subsidies for the public option (affordability credits). The whole bill hinges on these credits. The affordability credits translate to federal funds to subsidize healthcare. No federal funds=no taxpayer dollars. The new plan makes no new concessions for illegal residents. Your argument that they can enroll in the program without affordability credits is also incorrect. Illegals are already excluded from participation in any government subsidy program (with the exclusion of K-12 and emergency care) under the welfare reform act of 1996. The issue becomes enforcement. However, this is a red herring too. When was the last time a criminal statue mentioned how the police force should enforce that law? Enforcement is not the domain of the legislative branch.

Which leaves us with an interesting question (not really, it's a rhetorical one). If you are simply advocating that we should pass a law restricting illegals from access to any health insurance (they currently have access under private insurers), should we pass a law that says any illegal should be turned away from any hospital?

[Mark@Sea]

Obfuscating? Deliberately confusing the issue, or do you mean lying?
Democrats in the house deliberately blocked an amendment to the bill that would keep illegals from obtaining coverage.
Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion: The House Bill Does Cover Illegals

Apparently, the Senate would say you're wrong, since they are now scrambling to close the loophole...

Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill - Political News - FOXNews.com

Hot Air Blog Archive Senate to close ObamaCare loophole for illegal immigrants that media claims doesn’t exist

One should be sure of his facts before calling someone an obfuscator. Especially in Tennessee. One might find himself defenestrated.

[9teeneleven]

yes, obfuscate. You don't think it possible that they are closing loopholes that don't exist because the right has started resorting to their old stalwarts abortion and illegals? I am utterly shocked that they haven't found some "loophole" that won't let gun owners get healthcare! However, some have certainly tried to make guns part of the healthcare debate. It is simply idiotic IMO.

Per your link, I'm sorry, the fellow in your link is simply wrong. Don't take my word for it, here is the passage from the 1996 bill (which is now law):
SEC. 401. ALIENS WHO ARE NOT QUALIFIED ALIENS INELIGIBLE FOR
FEDERAL PUBLIC BENEFITS. 8 USC 1611.

(b), an alien who is not
a qualified alien (as defined in section 431) is not eligible for
any Federal public benefit (as defined in subsection (c)).

Here is subsection c:

(c) FEDERALPUBLICBENEFITDEFINED.—
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), for purposes of
this title the term ‘‘Federal public benefit’’ means—
(A) any grant, contract, loan, professional license, or
commercial license provided by an agency of the United
States or by appropriated funds of the United States; and
(B) any retirement, welfare, health, disability, public
or assisted housing, postsecondary education, food assist-
ance, unemployment benefit, or any other similar benefit
for which payments or assistance are provided to an
individual, household, or family eligibility unit by an
agency of the United States or by appropriated funds of
the United States.

[Mark@Sea]

You know, you might read the links first...

"As the Congressional Research Service found, illegal aliens can participate in most of the critical aspects of the government health system including the health care exchanges."

"There were two opportunities for House Democrats to make clear that illegal immigrants wouldn't be covered by putting in requirements to show citizenships," he said. "Both of those amendments were, in fact, rejected."

Pertinent quotes bolded for those who are hard of thinking.

[9teeneleven]

You know, you might read the links first...

"As the Congressional Research Service found, illegal aliens can participate in most of the critical aspects of the government health system including the health care exchanges."

"There were two opportunities for House Democrats to make clear that illegal immigrants wouldn't be covered by putting in requirements to show citizenships," he said. "Both of those amendments were, in fact, rejected."

Pertinent quotes bolded for those who are hard of thinking.

For the hard of comprehension, read the existing law. I swear, check yourself before you start insulting people. You are mistaken here, partly because you are relying on secondary sources. I read the CRS report (also a secondary source), and basic reading skills will allow you to see that it doesn't say illegals would be allowed (they are already excluded), but that the bill says "H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitizens participating in the exchange." That doesn't mean that they would be allowed to participate. As I posted earlier, their participation would already by in violation of existing law. Make sense? The bill does, however, explicitly state that illegals would not be included in the mandate. This took me 10 minutes of research to find out, yet I've not seen one news story mention it. Yet, somehow, our media has a liberal agenda?

What I think is a travesty is that the new amendments now being rushed through are trying to deny any health insurance to illegals, i.e. private insurance. This is a clear violation of free market economics.

[Mark@Sea]

Yeah, okay, illegals aren't covered, but you aren't allowed to check someones' citizenship or lack thereof... One of the rejected house provisions would have allowed hospitals/physicians to verify using the federal system used to check citizenship for employment, and it was rejected. Brilliant. What, exactly, prevents illegals from using the system, again? OH - an old law. Well, we know how law abiding our 'new neighbors' tend to be, so that's fine, then.
I haven't insulted you, just pointed out the obvious.

This entire bill is a slap in the face to the free market, no need to quibble over one tiny part.

[9teeneleven]

Yeah, okay, illegals aren't covered, but you aren't allowed to check someones' citizenship or lack thereof... One of the rejected house provisions would have allowed hospitals/physicians to verify using the federal system used to check citizenship for employment, and it was rejected. Brilliant. What, exactly, prevents illegals from using the system, again? OH - an old law. Well, we know how law abiding our 'new neighbors' tend to be, so that's fine, then.
I haven't insulted you, just pointed out the obvious.

This entire bill is a slap in the face to the free market, no need to quibble over one tiny part.

The free market is not some sacred cow. At the moment, the free market is an insult to hard working Americans, and basic human principles. I don't think the current proposals are some wonder cure, but I do think something big needs to be changed. Privatization works wonderfully for many many things, but when human health becomes a secondary concern to profit, then privatization is problematic. The incentive for profit often outweighs the incentive to cure and heal. Corporations are only moral and ethical as long as the moral and ethical choice is in line with the profitable choice. Governments are not perfect either, but at least in a democratic society, they are held ethically and morally accountable for the decisions they make.

[Mark@Sea]

Governments are not perfect either, but at least in a democratic society, they are held ethically and morally accountable for the decisions they make.

Yeah, right. Tell that to Britains' National Health Service. No thanks, I'd rather take my chances with an evil corporation, which will go under if it doesn't meet the needs of its' clients. Some other evil corporation will find a way to do it better, and cheaper, and get all their clients. That, you see, is how the free market works. Not that health insurance is a free market - its' so heavily regulated now by state and federal gov't it is amazing it stays afloat at all.

[slothful1]

Governments are not perfect either, but at least in a democratic society, they are held ethically and morally accountable for the decisions they make.

LOL