a Tennessee perspective

You have a legal right to forcefully remove someone from your property. If you try and they elevate the situation you can proceed with said beatdown.

Most people/police agree that the middle step is somewhat optional. The problem still lies that if you tear the guys ears off that he may seek civil damages...so it puts you as a homeowner in somewhat of an "all or nothing" situation.

This very thing happened to my best friend not long ago. He tackled the door of his Durango with the person's leg hanging out of it. 10 or so MPH with 200# of mass I suppose left quite an ouch-ie on the BG...which ran off and was never seen again.

That's when the loving family pet boxer, Lucky, reveals his Schutzhund 3 (SchH3) training. Good boy, Lucky! lol, that's 90 lbs of pure a** whuppin' in "protection" mode.

Wow, a boxer with Schutzhund 3 (SchH3) training! All my boxers ever knew how do do to someone was lick them to death!

As for the situation that was posted.....I'm a woman, so I couldn't do the beat-down thing that you guys can do. Personally, I think I would have my mace in one hand and my gun in the other......I would mace him and if he came at me after that, I'd use my gun. Of course, being a woman, we can "be in reasonable fear of our lives" a lot easier than a man can be. A man's bare hands can be a "lethal weapon" against a woman. So even though we are at a physical disadvantage against an attacker, we have certain other advantages that can work for us if we have to use lethal force.

Too many variables not explained in the original post but so far Good Steward or Packinmama probably has the best answer.

For those of you who are certified card carrying bad asses this does not apply, but to the rest of the world....

when is the last time you administered a beat down to someone?

When is the last time you tried to administer a beat down to someone who DID NOT CARE that you were armed?

MIght he just be a smart ass who does not think you will use it?

Maybe.

Might he be a BAD ass who has beaten people down and taken guns from people before?

MAYBE. You just do not know.

You know there is video of convicts working on disarms in prison yards.....

So on that note how many of us here have actually gotten some kind of training in disarms, retention, In Fight Weapons Access, and are comfortable enough with their ability to go hands on with someone of UNKNOWN ability ? Who might also be armed, and who is NOT afraid of you....For all we know this guy may be the "student of the month" at the local MMA gym, who was actually in a REAL fight maybe as recently as yesterday, Who gets in REAL fights with other real bad guys regularly and who right now might also be armed with a knife or gun or who knows what....

Again if you are reading this and you make Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, Paul Sharp, Tom Sotis and Leo Gaje cry, then disregard...but if you are not in that category..and that includes most everyone....I'd SERIOUSLY think twice before approaching someone by yourself and laying hands on them ESPECIALLY if they are not afraid of your gun.....

Originally Posted by Cruel Hand Luke

Too many variables not explained in the original post but so far Packinmama probably has the best answer.

For those of you who are certified card carrying bad asses this does not apply, but to the rest of the world....

when is the last time you administered a beat down to someone?

When is the last time you tried to administer a beat down to someone who DID NOT CARE that you were armed?

MIght he just be a smart ass who does not think you will use it?

Maybe.

Might he be a BAD ass who has taken guns from people before?

MAYBE. You just do not know.

You know there is video of convicts working on disarms in prison yards.....

So on that note how many of us here have actually gotten some kind of training in disarms, retention, In Fight Weapons Access, and are comfortable enough with their ability to go hands on with someone of UNKNOWN ability ? Who might also be armed, and who is NOT afraid of you....For all we know this guy may be the "student of the month" at the local MMA gym.

Again if you are reading this and you make Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, Paul Sharp, Tom Sotis and Leo Gaje cry, then disregard...but if you are not in that category..and that includes most everyone....I'd SERIOUSLY rethink approaching someone and laying hands on them ESPECIALLY if they are not afraid of your gun.....

I got a little confused halfway through your post, as its hard for me to focus posts from condescending experts, so let me ask you to actually tell us what YOU would do.

It SOUNDS like you are suggesting that unless you are a prize fighter, that the correct response should be to go to guns.
Is that what you are saying?

I will refrain from giving my opinion, until you clarify exactly what you are suggesting, but for the record I have absolutely no problem go hands on as the next evolution in my use of force continuum.

And personally, if someone (that knew me, and my experience) suggested that the next logical step would be for me to go guns up, they are an idiot and dangerous in their preaching.

(your situation and mileage my vary)

I like Joe's answer lol. Been subjected to it, not fun.

Or I'd just pistol whip the bastard.

Originally Posted by PackinMama

Wow, a boxer with Schutzhund 3 (SchH3) training! All my boxers ever knew how do do to someone was lick them to death!

As for the situation that was posted.....I'm a woman, so I couldn't do the beat-down thing that you guys can do. Personally, I think I would have my mace in one hand and my gun in the other......I would mace him and if he came at me after that, I'd use my gun. Of course, being a woman, we can "be in reasonable fear of our lives" a lot easier than a man can be. A man's bare hands can be a "lethal weapon" against a woman. So even though we are at a physical disadvantage against an attacker, we have certain other advantages that can work for us if we have to use lethal force.

Yeah, Lucky's a little over 3 now, and had a little over 2 years of training to reach that level. I know that I've told you before that I travel a lot, and thought this would be a fantastic idea for home protection while my wife and children were home alone. Fortunately, the only time he has been given the "angreifen" (Attack! in German) command while in training. He did, however, score a 270 (max of 300) in training, so he is very enthusiastic about his job. Other than that, he is a typical Boxer. All play and a lot of slobber!

Originally Posted by Hero Gear

I got a little confused halfway through your post, as its hard for me to focus posts from condescending experts, so let me ask you to actually tell us what YOU would do.

It SOUNDS like you are suggesting that unless you are a prize fighter, that the correct response should be to go to guns.
Is that what you are saying?

I will refrain from giving my opinion, until you clarify exactly what you are suggesting, but for the record I have absolutely no problem go hands on as the next evolution in my use of force continuum.

And personally, if someone (that knew me, and my experience) suggested that the next logical step would be for me to go guns up, they are an idiot and dangerous in their preaching.

(your situation and mileage my vary)

Wow...........I suggest people actually take a second and THINK before they rush into laying hands on someone of unknown ability and you call me a "condescending expert"?

Well.....O.K. then...........

I never suggested any course of action because as I stated in the post there are too many variables unmentioned in the original premise. Oh and we also are JUST ASSUMING that he is alone......

I merely suggested that there are seriously bad dudes out there. And that MOST poeple reading this forum honestly would not fit into that category. And that if your gun does not frighten someone then that might be a clue that this guy is not just a 16 year old punk.

I also CLEARLY STATED that if you are physically skilled to the point that you are confident about going hands on with someone of unknown ability that my suggestion to THINK FIRST before rushing in to deliver a beat down does not apply to you.

I'm with Randy on this one, I'm pretty skilled with a pistol, but I am not a "badass" of any sort. Personally I'm not willing to kill or get killed over a car radio, etc. The recommendation to think before doing something that may not be such a great idea is pretty sound if you ask me.

I agree with Cruel Hand Luke and Gunsablazin.

Most of us are not equipped to give a person of questionable ability, strength, fighting experience, and weapon posession a "beat down."

Good Steward, That is pretty cool about "Lucky." I seriously would never have imagined an attack trained boxer. That would actually give you, or your wife and kids a major advantage if he had to go on attack.....no BG would ever expect it!