a Tennessee perspective

Originally Posted by Good_Steward

Well, the thing with that is, in this case, if I give my dog the command, the guy would have to already have the weapon out to use it before he was attacked. As I mentioned in an earlier post, he is a Shutzhund trained dog. Shutzhund translated means "protection dog" literally. In that case, there would never be a question. BG shot dead at first sign he had a weapon and intended to use it.

I was under the impression you'd send your dog out and stay inside. You going to shoot the guy through the window if he shoots your dog? You'd be crucified if you told that story to the cops.

And, in terms of dog training, all dog training is designed to control the dog before the fight starts. Once the fight is on, a dog can become an unguided missle and probably will. Happens all the time. I'd worry that if the guy ran, shot or not, the dog would follow. Then you lose the dog or the cops find the body an hour later with your dog fastened the guy's leg/arm/neck. Either way, that ain't no good for you, and even if you get out of it, they'll put the dog down for sure.

Sounds overly complicated. Door to leg and then more door to leg. If and when he's pinned then you yell to the wife to bring more pain aiding devises out to you while turning on all outside lights before she comes out. Then drag that BG out and zip tie him off, all the while the wife is gunned up and on the watch for others. Then sit back with a bigger gun aimed at BG and wait.

I would submit that a knee caught in the door of an automobile, slamed by 248 lbs of pressure delivered from my big angry ass would be enough to not only get the BG's attention but let him know just how serious I was in my demand that he immediately cease his criminal activity. If that's not quite enough, then a few blows delivered to a variety of available nerve motor points would I believe, quickly raise the BG's level of compliance.

A handgun is simply one tool in my kit. It is the biggest and baddest hammer I own and is my tool of last resort. If your hammer is the only tool you've got available to you then every problem you encounter damned well better be a nail. Otherwise, you may very well be screwed.

[shamless plug] Shameless plug here: Take our Pressure Point Control and Expandable Baton class in August and let us add some tools to your tool kit. [/shamless plug]

"I was under the impression you'd send your dog out and stay inside. You going to shoot the guy through the window if he shoots your dog?"

The situation stated that I would have been OUTSIDE with the BG. If you read the OP you would see that. If I'm out, giving this guy a desist command, and he basically laughs at me, I'm turning the dog loose on his a**. If a weapon comes out, then he would be killed without question. I didn't think that was hard to understand?

And another thing, the dog is NOT an "unguided missle". The training is very strict in the fact that he must stop on command.
http://www.schutzhund-training.com/protection.html

You might want to educate yourself about things you don't know before making comments about them.

Originally Posted by Good_Steward

"I was under the impression you'd send your dog out and stay inside. You going to shoot the guy through the window if he shoots your dog?"

The situation stated that I would have been OUTSIDE with the BG. If you read the OP you would see that. If I'm out, giving this guy a desist command, and he basically laughs at me, I'm turning the dog loose on his a**. If a weapon comes out, then he would be killed without question. I didn't think that was hard to understand?

And another thing, the dog is NOT an "unguided missle". The training is very strict in the fact that he must stop on command.
Schutzhund-Training.com - Protection

You might want to educate yourself about things you don't know before making comments about them.

I plugged in "k9 attacks bystander" to google, and found this in about 1 second.

Escambia sheriff's K-9 attacks woman | pnj.com | Pensacola News Journal

Or do you really think your dog, that has never bitten anyone or probably never been in a fight is going to do better than a police K9 that lives with its handler and does it every day?

Here's a good one, lol:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101616_pf.html

Here's a perfect illustration from the above article:

In 1993, Officer Gregory O. Chandler was tracking a robbery suspect near Forestville when a police dog named Castro charged him from about 50 yards away and clamped down on his right arm.


"You could tell its adrenaline was really flowing -- this dog was tasting blood and flesh," said Chandler, who resigned after the attack but still bears dark scars on his arm. "I was hollering for someone to shoot the dog, but [the handler] kept saying, 'No, no!' "


Like I said, unguided missle. I've been around hunting dogs my whole life. I'm pretty sure I both understand the problem and also understand dogs.


And its murder to shoot a guy that decides to shoot your dog. Thats 20 years in the big house.

The scenario is not likely (the part where he tells you to go piss up a rope) but I’ll play along.

When I see him in my car I am approaching him with my gun in my hand and pointed at him. I am not going “hands on” with anyone while I am armed.
My wife has told the cops I have him a gun point. That means they are responding lights and Siren. I am 2 miles from the Rutherford County Sherriff’s office so this is not going to last long.

If he continues working on stealing my stuff he will be in custody. If he comes at me he will be shot. If he turns and runs I will simply observe where he goes and let the cops handle it.

As for a dog… When I go outside my Doberman will be in the yard, but I will not let him get to the perp. If the perp pulls a gun he will be shot. I don’t care whether he is going to shoot me or the dog and I’m not waiting to find out. I can’t think of a better case for the use of deadly force.

Would I shoot if he runs? No. Am I going to physically engage him when I have no idea what he has in that car with him? No. I wouldn’t have done that when I was a cop and I was young, 10 feet tall and bullet proof then; I’m not anymore.

I have always said I would not shoot anyone to protect property, but in this case if he comes at me or pulls a gun; it’s not about property anymore.

Originally Posted by Mugster

I plugged in "k9 attacks bystander" to google, and found this in about 1 second.

Escambia sheriff's K-9 attacks woman | pnj.com | Pensacola News Journal

Or do you really think your dog, that has never bitten anyone or probably never been in a fight is going to do better than a police K9 that lives with its handler and does it every day?

Here's a good one, lol:

Pr. George's Police Beset By Own Dogs

Here's a perfect illustration from the above article:

In 1993, Officer Gregory O. Chandler was tracking a robbery suspect near Forestville when a police dog named Castro charged him from about 50 yards away and clamped down on his right arm.


"You could tell its adrenaline was really flowing -- this dog was tasting blood and flesh," said Chandler, who resigned after the attack but still bears dark scars on his arm. "I was hollering for someone to shoot the dog, but [the handler] kept saying, 'No, no!' "


Like I said, unguided missle. I've been around hunting dogs my whole life. I'm pretty sure I both understand the problem and also understand dogs.


And its murder to shoot a guy that decides to shoot your dog. Thats 20 years in the big house.

You sound like liberals quoting instances with ccp holders. Find one out of a million, and you're all over it. It's not murder when a guy breaking into my car decides to pull a weapon for whatever reason. How do I know if he plans to shoot the dog or me? It's not murder, it's self defense. You go ahead and let the guy walk off. You have just identified yourself as a victim. Me personally, I will be more than happy to use whatever means the situation merits to defend myself, family, and home. And your hunting dogs are a far cry from what I'm talking about. Different being trained to run rabbits vs. protect your owner.

As for a dog… When I go outside my Doberman will be in the yard, but I will not let him get to the perp. If the perp pulls a gun he will be shot. I don’t care whether he is going to shoot me or the dog and I’m not waiting to find out. I can’t think of a better case for the use of deadly force.



Absolutely, Dave. I agree 100%. Apparently though, to some people, if someone pulls that gun, you're not allowed to defend your home or property. Maybe he'll just go away if I "nice" him enough.

Originally Posted by Good_Steward

As for a dog… When I go outside my Doberman will be in the yard, but I will not let him get to the perp. If the perp pulls a gun he will be shot. I don’t care whether he is going to shoot me or the dog and I’m not waiting to find out. I can’t think of a better case for the use of deadly force.



Absolutely, Dave. I agree 100%. Apparently though, to some people, if someone pulls that gun, you're not allowed to defend your home or property. Maybe he'll just go away if I "nice" him enough.

Hmmm, well, the law says you can't use deadly force in this state to protect property except livestock. And no, the dog doesn't count. I guess you choose your path and I'll choose mine.

Originally Posted by Good_Steward

You sound like liberals quoting instances with ccp holders. Find one out of a million, and you're all over it. It's not murder when a guy breaking into my car decides to pull a weapon for whatever reason. How do I know if he plans to shoot the dog or me? It's not murder, it's self defense. You go ahead and let the guy walk off. You have just identified yourself as a victim. Me personally, I will be more than happy to use whatever means the situation merits to defend myself, family, and home. And your hunting dogs are a far cry from what I'm talking about. Different being trained to run rabbits vs. protect your owner.

Now that right there, is funny. I might print that out and tack it on my wall.