Jump to content


Welcome to Tennessee Gun Owners

Welcome to Tennessee Gun Owners -- The Premier Website for Tennessee Firearms Owners and Enthusiasts

If you have an account with us, please Sign In.

If you do not have an account, register now for one! It's 100% free and easy to do. »» Join TGO Now ««

As a member of Tennessee Gun Owners you can...
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Customize your experience here
Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Private long gun sale to Florida resident. Is it legal?


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#1 808-South

808-South

    TGO Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Location:
    The Hills of, Tennessee

Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:10 AM

Ive been looking on line. And cannot find any info. Regarding private long gun sales to a visiting Florida resident.
Does any one have a link or info regarding this issue?
It'll be greatly appreciated.

Edited by 808-South, 05 August 2012 - 04:13 AM.


#2 Oh Shoot

Oh Shoot

    Doubts Most Everything

  • TGO Benefactor
  • 23,224 posts
  • Location:
    Scruffy Little City
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:13 AM

Ive been looking on line. And cannot find any info. Regarding private long gun sales to a visiting Florida resident.
Does any one have a link or info regading this issue?
It'll greatly appriciated.


Illegal. Period. If you really want a link, you can read federal law:

http://www.law.corne...ode/text/18/922

You'd have to send it down to a FFL in FL, for him to transfer and take into possession there.

- OS

edit: oops, wrong link, corrected

Edited by OhShoot, 05 August 2012 - 04:19 AM.


#3 808-South

808-South

    TGO Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Location:
    The Hills of, Tennessee

Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:15 AM

Thats what I thought. But wasnt 100% sure.
Thank you.

Edited by 808-South, 05 August 2012 - 04:15 AM.


#4 Runco

Runco

    Not a TGO Newcomer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,640 posts
  • Location:
    Vonore, TN
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:38 AM

I found this through the ATF website that took me to the Florida state gun laws:

790.28. Purchase of rifles and shotguns in contiguous states

A resident of this state may purchase a rifle or shotgun in any state contig-uous to this state if he or she conforms to applic-able laws and regulations of the United States, of the state where the purchase is made, and of this state.

Bascially, ATF states its a State right to decide if certain citizens can buy from other states. I know at my local Wally, above the glass case for guns, it shows a map of the U.S. with states colored green and red. Green states can buy long guns (green states) from this store, and red states can not. About 1/2 the country can buy there. I can not recall Florida, but according to the Florida's law, you can only buy from contiguous states. Just in case you do not know what contiguous means:
Contiguous:
adj.
1. Sharing an edge or boundary; touching.
2. Neighboring; adjacent.
3.
a. Connecting without a break: the 48 contiguous states.
b. Connected in time; uninterrupted: served two contiguous terms in office.


References for the above
ATF

http://www.atf.gov/p...tion/index.html
sccroll down, right side under chapters for individual state laws.

Actual Florida law
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-2011/atf-p-5300-5-florida-2011.pdf
page #7 of the PDF.


Dictionary for contiguous:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/contiguous

#5 bkelm18

bkelm18

    Philanthropic Misanthrope

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9,173 posts
  • Location:
    Oak Ridge
Carry Permit Holder Military

Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:36 AM

I found this through the ATF website that took me to the Florida state gun laws:

790.28. Purchase of rifles and shotguns in contiguous states

A resident of this state may purchase a rifle or shotgun in any state contig-uous to this state if he or she conforms to applic-able laws and regulations of the United States, of the state where the purchase is made, and of this state.

Bascially, ATF states its a State right to decide if certain citizens can buy from other states. I know at my local Wally, above the glass case for guns, it shows a map of the U.S. with states colored green and red. Green states can buy long guns (green states) from this store, and red states can not. About 1/2 the country can buy there. I can not recall Florida, but according to the Florida's law, you can only buy from contiguous states. Just in case you do not know what contiguous means:
Contiguous:
adj.
1. Sharing an edge or boundary; touching.
2. Neighboring; adjacent.
3.
a. Connecting without a break: the 48 contiguous states.
b. Connected in time; uninterrupted: served two contiguous terms in office.


References for the above
ATF

http://www.atf.gov/p...tion/index.html
sccroll down, right side under chapters for individual state laws.

Actual Florida law
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-2011/atf-p-5300-5-florida-2011.pdf
page #7 of the PDF.


Dictionary for contiguous:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/contiguous


Not sure if any of that information is current, however it does not apply to private transactions. To purchase a long gun in another state it must come from an FFL.

#6 Runco

Runco

    Not a TGO Newcomer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,640 posts
  • Location:
    Vonore, TN
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:01 PM

Not sure if any of that information is current, however it does not apply to private transactions. To purchase a long gun in another state it must come from an FFL.


I stand corrected, and I agree for a "PRIVATE" sale, duh the topic heading. I found this on ATF's web site for a Private Sale:

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(B)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Here is the actual ATF link:
http://www.atf.gov/f...icensed-acquire

#7 Reservoir Dog

Reservoir Dog

    Sheepdog

  • Lifetime Benefactor
  • 1,470 posts
  • Location:
    Nashville
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:34 PM

Ive been looking on line. And cannot find any info. Regarding private long gun sales to a visiting Florida resident.
Does any one have a link or info regarding this issue?
It'll be greatly appreciated.


Contact your local gun shop and see if they are willing to transfer the long gun. You would transfer it to your local shop, then the buyer would do a 4473 and TICS at the store, and complete the transfer there. That is another option to sending it to an FFL in the buyer's state.

#8 DaveS

DaveS

    SME

  • Lifetime Benefactor
  • 6,214 posts
  • Location:
    Clarksville, TN
Carry Permit Holder Law Enforcement Military

Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:57 PM

Ive been looking on line. And cannot find any info. Regarding private long gun sales to a visiting Florida resident.
Does any one have a link or info regarding this issue?
It'll be greatly appreciated.


Sometimes, "nothing" is a good thing to ask! You could have made your sale and been done!

Dave

#9 Oh Shoot

Oh Shoot

    Doubts Most Everything

  • TGO Benefactor
  • 23,224 posts
  • Location:
    Scruffy Little City
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:58 PM

Contact your local gun shop and see if they are willing to transfer the long gun. You would transfer it to your local shop, then the buyer would do a 4473 and TICS at the store, and complete the transfer there. That is another option to sending it to an FFL in the buyer's state.


The only way that works is if you can sell the gun to the TN FFL, then the FFL sells the gun to the FL friend. The only way a FL resident can legally receive a long gun for ownership in the state of TN is to buy it from a TN FFL. And no way to do so with a handgun at all.

Not saying it couldn't work, but of course there's little incentive for the gun store to do that unless it makes a profit on the sale.

- OS

Edited by OhShoot, 05 August 2012 - 08:16 PM.


#10 bkelm18

bkelm18

    Philanthropic Misanthrope

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9,173 posts
  • Location:
    Oak Ridge
Carry Permit Holder Military

Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:04 PM

Sometimes, "nothing" is a good thing to ask! You could have made your sale and been done!

Dave


Yep and broken federal law to boot.

#11 Oh Shoot

Oh Shoot

    Doubts Most Everything

  • TGO Benefactor
  • 23,224 posts
  • Location:
    Scruffy Little City
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:42 PM

Yep and broken federal law to boot.


And the TGO law against promoting such. ;)

- OS

#12 Reservoir Dog

Reservoir Dog

    Sheepdog

  • Lifetime Benefactor
  • 1,470 posts
  • Location:
    Nashville
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:20 PM

The only way that works is if you can sell the gun to the TN FFL, then the FFL sells the gun to the FL friend. The only way a FL resident can legally receive a long gun for ownership in the state of TN is to buy it from a TN FFL. And no way to do so with a handgun at all.

Not saying it couldn't work, but of course there's little incentive for the gun store to do that unless it makes a profit on the sale.

- OS


Well, I know it won't work with a handgun. That is why I said "long gun" in my post.

Gun stores do transfers all the time. If you buy from Bud's Gun Shop, the gun is simply transferred to your LGS, which in tun transfers it to you via 4473/TICS. There is no selling or buying to (or from) the local dealer, all you do is pay a fee for their service. I am not aware of any restriction about out-of-state residents doing that if they are temporarily visiting another state, but I may be wrong. Can you post the law/regulation that backs up what you are saying?

EDIT: After rereading your post, I guess you are talking about the financial aspects to the dealer versus the legal aspects. I am sure the transferring dealer would charge his normal transfer fee for this, and I would expect that.

Edited by Reservoir Dog, 05 August 2012 - 10:31 PM.


#13 Oh Shoot

Oh Shoot

    Doubts Most Everything

  • TGO Benefactor
  • 23,224 posts
  • Location:
    Scruffy Little City
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:46 PM

Well, I know it won't work with a handgun. That is why I said "long gun" in my post.

Gun stores do transfers all the time. If you buy from Bud's Gun Shop, the gun is simply transferred to your LGS, which in tun transfers it to you via 4473/TICS. There is no selling or buying to (or from) the local dealer, all you do is pay a fee for their service. I am not aware of any restriction about out-of-state residents doing that if they are temporarily visiting another state, but I may be wrong. Can you post the law/regulation that backs up what you are saying?

EDIT: After rereading your post, I guess you are talking about the financial aspects to the dealer versus the legal aspects. I am sure the transferring dealer would charge his normal transfer fee for this, and I would expect that.


None of that applies here.

A TN FFL can NOT transfer a long gun (or a handgun, of course) from a TN resident to a resident of another state.

You yourself can only have a gun from Bud's transferred to you through a FFL in TN. You can't have it sent to Florida and transferred to you there. Same applies for private sales. You cannot go to a Nashville FFL and transfer a gun you've sold to someone who is a resident of another state.

The 4473 for transfer must be run by an FFL in the recipient's state of residence, unless it is sale of a long gun by an FFL (and some few states limit long gun sales to only adjoining state's residents also).

Perhaps the simplest way to put it -- there is no legal way for YOU to sell any firearm to a resident of another state and him take possession of that firearm in TN.

Get it?

- OS

Edited by OhShoot, 05 August 2012 - 11:29 PM.


#14 DaveS

DaveS

    SME

  • Lifetime Benefactor
  • 6,214 posts
  • Location:
    Clarksville, TN
Carry Permit Holder Law Enforcement Military

Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:25 PM

And the TGO law against promoting such. ;)

- OS


TGO has NO LAW about being quite and keeping your pie hole shut, do they?

Dave S.

#15 Oh Shoot

Oh Shoot

    Doubts Most Everything

  • TGO Benefactor
  • 23,224 posts
  • Location:
    Scruffy Little City
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:46 PM

TGO has NO LAW about being quite and keeping your pie hole shut, do they?

Dave S.


As I understand it, TGO would advise doing exactly that, as opposed to offering suggestions for violating the law.

- OS

#16 Reservoir Dog

Reservoir Dog

    Sheepdog

  • Lifetime Benefactor
  • 1,470 posts
  • Location:
    Nashville
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:53 PM

Get it?


No, not really. Where are you getting that the dealer in TN has to be selling the firearm to the out-of-state resident?

#17 Oh Shoot

Oh Shoot

    Doubts Most Everything

  • TGO Benefactor
  • 23,224 posts
  • Location:
    Scruffy Little City
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:57 PM

No, not really. Where are you getting that the dealer in TN has to be selling the firearm to the out-of-state resident?


Sigh.

I only mentioned it because it's the only way YOU could (sort of) sell a firearm to resident of another state, and he take possession of it in TN.

YOU would have to sell it to the FFL and the FFL would SELL it to the out of state resident (long gun only). A FFL may SELL a long gun to a resident of another state. YOU can not.

YOU can not sell any gun to resident of another state and he take possession of it in TN in any way. A TN FFL can not make that happen, either.

If you still don't get it, I truly give up. Let someone else try.

- OS

Edited by OhShoot, 06 August 2012 - 12:27 AM.


#18 Reservoir Dog

Reservoir Dog

    Sheepdog

  • Lifetime Benefactor
  • 1,470 posts
  • Location:
    Nashville
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:30 AM

Sigh.

It's the only way YOU could (sort of) sell a firearm to resident of another state, and he take possession of it in TN.

YOU would have to sell it to the FFL and the FFL would SELL it to the out of state resident (long gun only). A FFL may SELL a long gun to a resident of another state. YOU can not.

YOU can not sell the same gun to resident of another state and he take possession of it in TN in any way.

If you don't get it, I truly give up. Let someone else try.

- OS


Okay. Maybe someone else will answer my question.

You are saying the local dealer has to buy and sell the gun himself. I ask again: Where are you getting that? What law says a dealer may only acquire a firearm by buying it? What law says a dealer may only sell a gun to an out-of-state resident? I am not trying to be difficult, but the laws I am reading would seem to allow a firearm transfer like I originally described. However, if I am wrong, I would like to see the law that prohibits that type of transfer.

I am looking at the following: 922(a)(3); 922(a)(5); and 922( b ) (3).

Edited by Reservoir Dog, 06 August 2012 - 12:32 AM.


#19 Oh Shoot

Oh Shoot

    Doubts Most Everything

  • TGO Benefactor
  • 23,224 posts
  • Location:
    Scruffy Little City
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:41 AM

...I am looking at the following: 922(a)(3); 922(a)(5); and 922( b ) (3).


Okay, last bite, really.

You just documented it yourself. Read all sections more carefully.

Then go by your fav Nashville FFL for a real world interpretation if necessary.

- OS

Edited by OhShoot, 06 August 2012 - 12:42 AM.


#20 Reservoir Dog

Reservoir Dog

    Sheepdog

  • Lifetime Benefactor
  • 1,470 posts
  • Location:
    Nashville
Carry Permit Holder NRA Member

Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:08 AM

You just documented it yourself. Read all sections more carefully.

Then go by your fav Nashville FFL for a real world interpretation if necessary.


I have carefully read all the sections I cited, and the exceptions in each one would seem to allow what I stated.

I am not looking for an interpretation, I like to go by what the law actually says. Again, I just don't see where it would be prohibited.