Attention Please

On Thursday, May 12th we upgraded our forum software to the latest IPBoard.  What you are seeing right now is the new software.  

If you are having trouble logging in, please try the following:

  1. Reset your password using this link.
  2. If that fails, Contact Us using this link for assistance resetting your password.

DarylDixon

Condition 1 or Condition 3 Carry

55 posts in this topic

I ran across this article about the pros and cons of Condition 3 vs. Condition 1 carry. It's worth a read. http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com/2010/09/myths-of-israeli-method-of-carry-or-why.html?m=1
I'm currently a Condition 3 guy. It just makes more sense to me in my situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't recommend carrying without one ready to fire unless you have done extensive drills with your firearm. I mean so many it becomes pure muscule memory because when it hits the fan and you lose your fine motor skills it could be deadly.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1911: Condition one, cocked and locked.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='QuietDan' timestamp='1353649906' post='849687']
1911: Condition one, cocked and locked.
[/quote]

What he said. Don't wanna be beat to death with my own gun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That article was aggravating to read. If the author wants to live in the past then he's got that to do. Handguns have come a long way. I don't start my car with a crank lever.

[u]Let's put this VERY simply...[/u]

[b]There are MANY things that could go wrong without one in the chamber.[/b]
- That quarter of a second it takes to chamber a round (that's very generously fast) can without a doubt easily be a matter of life or death.
- There is a chance of a failure to feed (when you could already have a good round already in the chamber ready to go).
- There is a chance a foreign object may be introduced to the chamber (shirt, flesh, a cat) causing malfunction or a jam.
- There is a chance you may become off balance in responding to a threat and unable to chamber a round.
- There is a chance that you might need your support hand to keep your threat at a distance/keep your balance/catch yourself/manipulate objects.
- There may not be enough room to rack the slide when tackled and wrestling on the ground

[b]There is ONE thing that could go wrong with carrying one in the chamber.[/b]
- A negligent discharge.

I don't know about you, but the reason I carry is to be ready for the worst imaginable situation (aka use of deadly force) and I think any reasonable person would want EVERY single advantage available no matter how small.
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The 1911 was designed to be carried in condition 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well written article. Doesn't change MY mind, but I do like that the author talks about "informed decision." He also mentions that one shouldnt just go with what this guy or that guy says. Carry in the manner that works best for you, but how could you go wrong in making "informed decisions" vs impulsive ones. For me, when I think of the best method of carry, I carry my FN-45. My 1911's are more emotional decisions, lol. In every personal analysis of mine, I will carry the FN, except for those occasions when its just too big to conceal in certain, limited situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For a long time, I had myself fooled into believing that C3 carry was safer. Since we just had Thanksgiving, I'm adding to my list that I'm thankful for people who cared enough about me to show me why I was wrong.

Every time, without fail, that I have asked a qualified instructor how to carry a firearm, 100% have said, "Condition 1".

BTW, can't help but notice that ole Daryl carries that crossbow in C1..... Edited by DaddyO
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Darryl is facing a very real and constant threat:)
Do what is best for your situation.
I like how the author addresses the fact that you will in all likelihood never have to fire in self defense, but you have to load/unload/holster/un holster your firearm thousands of times if you carry. The odds of an accidental discharge are much greater than the odds of dying because of that extra half second to rack the slide.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to carry in condition 1, I just don't currently feel that it fits my situation. It is likely that I'll change my mind when I don't have toddlers, babies, and young kids in the house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I carry either one of my Glocks that have no external safety or a Taurus PT140 with a safety. I carry all of them fully loaded and ready to go. The older you get the slower you are so every second counts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Glock 19. One in the chamber. I have had formal training and I do practice. I do not load/unload and I do not holster/unholster. If I have to draw my weapon there is no need to reholster it. The police will be wanting to take it as evidence. If you keep your "Bugger hook" off the "bang button" you will not have any negligent discharges. For me. If I (God help me) ever have to draw my weapon. I'm going to draw and fire, just like I train. It's simple and simple is what you want in a situation like that.

If you are drawing and holstering, loading and unloading, your weapon thousands of time when you carry, then you need to keep the chamber empty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is better to have it and not need it (cond. 1), than to need it and not have it (cond.3).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've been carrying C1 every day for a long time now. M&P45c with no external safety. Wonder why I've never had a ND?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='DarylDixon' timestamp='1353676807' post='849724']
Darryl is facing a very real and constant threat:)
Do what is best for your situation.
I like how the author addresses the fact that you will in all likelihood never have to fire in self defense, but you have to load/unload/holster/un holster your firearm thousands of times if you carry. The odds of an accidental discharge are much greater than the odds of dying because of that extra half second to rack the slide.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to carry in condition 1, I just don't currently feel that it fits my situation. It is likely that I'll change my mind when I don't have toddlers, babies, and young kids in the house.
[/quote]

I've been carrying my Glock loaded and ready since I got my permit. The only time it comes out of the holster is for target practice. Why would a person be constantly be taking a gun in and out of their holster?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For me, it's not a matter of right vs. wrong, it's a matter of what are you comfortable with. If you aren't comfortable carrying one in the chamber, then don't. If you are, then do. I carry one in the chamber, but I am comfortable with my gun and safe handling skills. Still, anything can happen to even the best and most safety conscious people.

I would rather be in close vicinity of someone with a gun in C3 if they aren't comfortable in C1. If you aren't comfortable, your more likely to make a mistake IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='oldmustangjunkie' timestamp='1353683250' post='849763']


I've been carrying my Glock loaded and ready since I got my permit. The only time it comes out of the holster is for target practice. Why would a person be constantly be taking a gun in and out of their holster?
[/quote]

I think that depends on what you do with it at the end of the day. If you have small children in the house, you may unholster it to secure it in a quick access safe or in the nightstand drawer. I also prefer to put my IWB holster on without anything in it. Different strokes for different folks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='DarylDixon' timestamp='1353676807' post='849724']
Darryl is facing a very real and constant threat:)

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to carry in condition 1, I just don't currently feel that it fits my situation. It is likely that I'll change my mind when I don't have toddlers, babies, and young kids in the house.
[/quote]

I view that as a seperate issue. Guns should be secured from kids... period. I don't have kids, so I don't have to worry about it on a daily basis. When they're around, I make sure they can't get their hands on one of my guns. I usually just lock them in the safe.

We all carry because there's a very real and constant threat, no matter how infrequent. People have been killed with their unchambered guns in their hands. I won't argue that an unloaded gun isn't better than no gun at all. I will say that it increases your risk if you ever need to defend yourself. That's why all guns have safety mechanisms. If they were designed to be carried unloaded, they wouldn't need safeties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='DarylDixon' timestamp='1353683922' post='849767']
I think that depends on what you do with it at the end of the day. If you have small children in the house, you may unholster it to secure it in a quick access safe or in the nightstand drawer. I also prefer to put my IWB holster on without anything in it. Different strokes for different folks.
[/quote]

I haven't been forced to think this one through. Kids are smart. If they can get their hands on a gun at all, it needs to be disabled in some fashion (no ammo available). Seems to me, it's better to just lock the whole gun away. Has nothing to do with condition of readiness. If the gun can be made ready, it's not safe to be in a kid's hands.

If I had kids in the house every day, I would probably use a quick access safe, and my gun would stay there (in condition 1).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='mikegideon' timestamp='1353685456' post='849772']
I view that as a seperate issue. Guns should be secured from kids... period. I don't have kids, so I don't have to worry about it on a daily basis. When they're around, I make sure they can't get their hands on one of my guns. I usually just lock them in the safe.

We all carry because there's a very real and constant threat, no matter how infrequent. People have been killed with their unchambered guns in their hands. I won't argue that an unloaded gun isn't better than no gun at all. I will say that it increases your risk if you ever need to defend yourself. That's why all guns have safety mechanisms. If they were designed to be carried unloaded, they wouldn't need safeties.
[/quote]

My guns are always secured from my kids. They never have an opportunity to encounter them. It's just that in the unlikely event that I have an accidental discharge even though I take every necessary safety precaution, if it accidentally hit one of my kids, I don't think I could live with myself. I'm not a guy who has been carrying for 20 years, and my opinion may change as I gain more experience, but for now I'll risk the empty chamber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='w0lfattack' timestamp='1353657178' post='849691']
[u]Let's put this VERY simply...[/u]

[b]There are MANY things that could go wrong without one in the chamber.[/b]
- That quarter of a second it takes to chamber a round (that's very generously fast) can without a doubt easily be a matter of life or death.
- There is a chance of a failure to feed (when you could already have a good round already in the chamber ready to go).
- There is a chance a foreign object may be introduced to the chamber (shirt, flesh, a cat) causing malfunction or a jam.
- There is a chance you may become off balance in responding to a threat and unable to chamber a round.
- There is a chance that you might need your support hand to keep your threat at a distance/keep your balance/catch yourself/manipulate objects.
- There may not be enough room to rack the slide when tackled and wrestling on the ground
[/quote]

I agree. The article talks about racking the slide taking only an extra half second, but that's a half second that could easily turn into a five or ten second ordeal under stress, or with a malfunction.

Better to carry C3 than not at all, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At the end of the day, these types of threads only lead to one thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='DarylDixon' timestamp='1353686014' post='849780']
My guns are always secured from my kids. They never have an opportunity to encounter them. It's just that in the unlikely event that I have an accidental discharge even though I take every necessary safety precaution, if it accidentally hit one of my kids, I don't think I could live with myself. I'm not a guy who has been carrying for 20 years, [b]and my opinion may change as I gain more experience[/b], but for now I'll risk the empty chamber.
[/quote]

I'll bet it does :). Accidental discharge should really be called accidental trigger pull. If you don't mash the trigger, it won't go bang. I have owned defensive handguns since the early 70's. I'm real comfortable around them until my finger gets in the trigger hole. That doesn't happen unless the gun is pointed in a safe direction.

This isn't the first (or second, or...) thread on this subject. It's not like the jury is still out. With that said, you have to reach your own comfort level. Just keep going over defensive scenarios in your mind. The overwhelming majority of folks carry in condition one, and it's not because they're reckless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='DaddyO' timestamp='1353686581' post='849786']
At the end of the day, these types of threads only lead to one thing.
[/quote]

A Tex Grebner video? :)
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Gah, I just ******* shot myself!" [i]Pulled from Tex Grebner video[/i]
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now