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About six months ago I was coming home from a local restaurant with food for my wife. It was really cold so I was trying to get home before the food got cold. I was speeding and was probably doing 15 mph over on a local highway where the speed limit is 50 mph. As I turned onto my dead end road I looked in the rear view mirror to see a patrol coming up on me rather fast but without his lights or sirens going. Realizing that he was probably going to pull me over for speeding I pulled off to the side of the road and turned off my ignition before he could hit his lights. A few seconds after I pulled over he pulled in about 15 yards behind my car and hit the emergency lights. Because my car was already off I could not roll down my electric windows so I opened my door to tell him my windows were not working. That is when he came unhinged and started yelling things like "you want some of this" as well as "bring it on if you want to die today" from behind the door of his cruiser. I honestly cannot remember with 100% certainty but I would swear to the fact he had his pistol pointed at me as he yelled those things. There was about a two minutes of him yelling taunts at me before he yelled for me exit my vehicle. As I exited my vehicle he went full retard and did a full blown felony traffic stop on me, for speeding. As I got out of my vehicle the officer had me walk backwards towards him with my hands on top of my head. Somewhere between my vehicle and his the officer grabbed me by my hands that were no top of my head and put me against the trunk of my car. It was at that time I informed him I had a gun and a valid HCP. That didn't change his attitude one bit and he continued to aggressively search me head to toe after taking my gun. I honestly thought I was going to jail for something because of the way he acted. All this occurred in front of a neighbors house and I was being searched as they were coming home from church. My neighbors had to drive through their yard because my car was blocking their driveway. After he ran me he came back and apologized over and over again for how he acted and tried to make excuses for why he acted the way he did. After I told him I understood he handed my gun back and sent me on my way. I had every intention of informing him as soon as I could but I knew I didn't want to tell him I had a gun while he was excited with his gun pointed at me. If this is how he acts on all traffic stops it will just be a matter of time before someone gets hurt. The officer that pulled me over worked for THP and was definitely a younger, unseasoned officer. And if he did shoot I would no doubt be painted as some bad guy because I did have a gun on me, legal or not. Having a gun, even legally, is all that is needed to justify a shooting any more. Even if you don't have a gun you can be shot if the officer thinks you do and "feels threatened". Castillo was the person we wish everyone was and he was killed just because he had a gun but the worst part is the officer(s) were acquitted because Castillo had a gun. I am starting to think that maybe carrying a gun is more of a risk than not carrying a gun. It won't keep me from getting shot but it will make it a lot harder for my homicide to be justified. I will say that it seems like LE is a bit more jumpy these days, especially the younger ones, and they escalate far too often and far to quickly. They pull their guns out without any valid reason a lot of time and as we all know every time your gun clears your holster there is potential for something very bad to happen. I understand officers have to protect themselves but they also have to realize that not all people are trying to kill them no matter what they think or have been told. People will get nervous and act differently when they have a gun pointed at them but these days nervousness is often used as justification for the officer's actions. All you have to do is watch any one of the reality shows with cops to see officers say that because someone is acting nervous, after getting a gun pointed at them, they must be doing something illegal. Could it be they are nervous because you just pointed a gun at them? Never realized that nervousness is probable cause to conduct a search but it happens all the time. I would LOVE to see any officer go through a formal investigation anytime their gun clears the holster on duty. And the only way to determine whether it was legitimate would be through an investigation by an impartial party, not IAD. And if the there was no valid reason to pull the gun then take administrative action against the officer. I cannot approach someone with a gun in my hand so barring a legitimate reason an officer should not be allowed to do the same thing. As far as the video released I will say that I do question the officer saying the people looked like they were involved in a in a robbery. Is it because they are black? Is it because the car is white? If the occupants were suspected in a robbery then by all means conduct a felony traffic stop. But with them walking up willy, nilly that only tells me that the officers did not believe for one second that the occupants were involved in a robbery even though that is what is told to dispatch as the justification for the stop. I also have a big problem with the video that was released because every version I can find does have some editing done to it to remove something from video that happened just before the shooting. I would like to see and hear what was said in the video that was edited out by the police department. I believe the acquittal was in error and the officer should be held accountable because he was wrong for killing Castillo.

From Greg Ellifritz of Active Response Training....... http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/the-philando-castile-shooting-and-some-advice-for-my-cop-readers?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ActiveResponseTraining+(Active+Response+Training) The Philando Castile Shooting and Some Advice for My Cop Readers Posted on June 22, 2017 by Greg Ellifritz in News and Tactical Advice Tweet EmailShare SUMO Written by Greg Ellifritz This week, a Minnesota jury acquitted officer Jeronimo Yanez in the shooting death of motorist Philando Castile. This was a controversial police shooting that probably didn’t have to happen. I would encourage all of you to watch the recently released dash cam footage of the shooting if you have not done so. Watch the whole incident. It’s tragic. My take on the shooting is that both the officer and the motorist made some mistakes. Having researched the case, I don’t believe that Philando Castile was actually reaching for his concealed carry pistol. He did, however, tell the officer he was armed and make a hand movement consistent with drawing a concealed firearm. Those of you with CCW permits should know to be extra careful and avoid making any motions that a poorly-trained officer could construe as being threatening. Mr. Castile, failed to exercise this type of caution and was shot by the cop as a result. He made a mistake, but in my mind that mistake should not carry a death penalty as the consequence. The bigger mistake, in my opinion, was made by Officer Yanez. He appeared to panic when confronted by the fact that the driver he stopped was armed and didn’t seem to be paying proper attention to his verbal commands. He probably didn’t need to shoot Mr. Castile, but I feel reasonably certain that the officer felt that he had no other option. That is the predictable result of poor training, possibly combined with poor hiring practices on the part of Officer Yanez’ agency. People prone to panic should not be hired as cops. All cops should be given quality force on force training so that they know how to handle incidents like this without reflexively firing their weapons in abject fear. Unfortunately, both problems are likely to persist in the face of ever-shrinking government budgets. What can you and I do to prevent innocent folks from being killed by poorly trained cops? It’s a difficult problem to solve. I have a couple words of advice for my readers who are CCW carriers and even more advice for my cop readers to follow. First, if you are lawfully armed and encounter a cop, you should follow your state’s laws with regards to notification. Some states require that you notify the cop you are carrying and some don’t. Make sure you state your notification calmly. In all honesty, Mr. Castile’s notification to Officer Yanez was virtually textbook. When you make this notification, your hands should be visible on the steering wheel and you should not be moving at all. Don’t try to get your wallet out or reach into your glove compartment for your insurance card. Remain perfectly still! Listen to what the officer tells you to do and obey his commands. If there is any doubt at all what the cop wants you to do, simply freeze. Don’t move at all until you are sure what the cop wants you to do. Always err on the side of remaining motionless rather than doing something when there is any doubt about the cop’s commands. It’s sad, but it’s probably safest for the armed citizen to assume that the cop will be poorly trained and might get scared at your notification. Do everything possible to keep things calm and avoid making any potentially threatening motions or statements. There’s no guarantee that this will keep you safe, but it’s the best advice I can provide. For my police readers, how would you like to be in Officer Yanez’ shoes right now? Clearly, he is better off than Mr. Castile because he is still alive, but his career and life are ruined. You don’t want to kill an innocent citizen. You also don’t want to go to jail, lose a lawsuit, or get fired. The onus is on YOU to prevent these things from happening. It isn’t your agency’s job to keep you alive, out of jail, and employed. Your agency will neglect to give you the training you need and fire you in a heartbeat when you screw anything up. It’s YOUR job to keep yourself out of the trick bag. My cop readers need to focus on two issues: 1) Ensuring the validity of the initial transaction- The first thing that comes up in any police shooting investigation or any lawsuit filed against the cops is “Why did the cops contact the person they shot.” If the reason for the contact is bogus, then everything that transpires later is viewed with suspicion. The media works this angle to the cop’s detriment. They blame the shooting on the reason for the stop, not what the suspect did afterwards. Right now we are hearing every media outlet talk about Mr. Castile being shot “for having a couple of burnt out brake lights.” That’s not why he was shot, but it doesn’t matter in the court of public opinion. Your contact with any citizen in an enforcement capacity needs to be rock-solid. Not only rock-solid in a legal sense, but rock-solid in the court of public opinion. Look at this shooting. The reason for contact (only one functioning brake light) is valid legally, but what do people think about cops pulling people over for minor infractions like that? They don’t like it. Following the logic, they will like it even less when someone gets shot as a result of a “bull####” stop. I know what the cop was doing, he was likely hunting for criminals and people who have warrants. I see it pretty regularly. Cops pull over crappy cars for equipment violations, hunting for an arrest. Poor people who can’t afford to fix busted tail lights often can’t afford to pay their tickets, their child support, or their court fees. Their driver’s licenses are frequently suspended and they regularly have warrants. So, aggressive cop looking to arrest “bad guys” pulls over a beater car and runs everyone inside for warrants. About 25% of the time he gets lucky and gets an arrest or a bunch of tickets. Every once in awhile, bad #### happens, innocent people die and the cop ends up in the national media spotlight. Is it worth it to take the chance of such a negative outcome to enforce a relatively inconsequential traffic violation ? The problem is that a large portion of society thinks that your hard work and “aggressive and proactive” policing style looks an awful lot like “screwing with poor people” instead of hunting criminals. STOP HASSLING PEOPLE! The fact that some dude has a suspended license or hasn’t paid a speeding ticket is not negatively affecting the real safety of the community you patrol. I know you want to do good things and make lots of arrests, but every stop you make has the potential to go REALLY bad. Don’t stop people for bogus violations. Don’t hunt minor scofflaws. The public doesn’t respect you for doing so and occasionally you will get thrown under the bus when you screw something up, or your stop ends up in a shooting that you didn’t intend. Put yourself in the position of Officer Yanez. Would you have made that traffic stop if you had known it would turn out like it did? My guess is the answer is “no“. Think about that the next time you feel like making a stop for a cracked windshield or some other trifling infraction. I know this opinion will be criticized by hard working, aggressive police officers; and perhaps rightfully so. Most cops want to do a good job and lock up bad guys. A problem is created when the very public we serve does not approve of the manner in which we do this. The public’s disapproval of pretextual traffic stops and enforcement of petty traffic violations is at a historic high. They don’t like it. And they like it even less when you get involved in a controversial shooting because you finally caught one of those really bad guys that you were trying to put in jail. In today’s world it becomes more a matter of individual and career survival than an issue of getting one more arrest. In my mind, that balance is pretty clear. I don’t make pretextual traffic stops. I don’t stop vehicles for minor equipment violations that don’t endanger the motoring public. I don’t run the plate on every car I see looking for the dude who has a suspended license because he didn’t pay his child support. Most of the people you catch by making these kind of stops aren’t truly criminals. They’re broke! Yes, they have likely made numerous poor decisions that have resulted in their warrants/suspensions, but most of these folks aren’t a real danger to your community. Don’t make it a habit to focus your attention on these “small fish.” Your community would probably prefer that you spend your time doing something more productive to enhance your residents’ safety. My hard charging rookie self would have scoffed at this advice 20+ years ago when I was leading my police department in total numbers of arrests and traffic tickets. You cops reading this may scoff right now as well. Do what you think is best, but I promise that your perspective will change after a couple decades in the game. I want you to make it to your retirement healthy, happy, and outside the confines of a correctional institution. The best way to do that in today’s world is not by stopping every car that moves. 2) You need more and better training. I don’t know a single department in the country that gives its officers all the training they need. Initial recruit training in most states is abysmal. In Ohio, barbers get three times more training than cops do before being licensed. In-service training is even worse. I know some departments that provide NO in service training other than watching a couple videos each year. If you are scared of legally armed citizens with CCW permits and you freak out because someone has a gun, you simply aren’t confident in your own abilities. That’s a huge problem. When you aren’t skilled and confident, you get scared and you over react. Freaked out cops don’t make good decisions. When cops don’t make good decisions, they end up on the national news. Your department won’t give you the training you need. You have two options. You can seek out the training on your own or you can hope you never get into a bad spot where your lack of skills gets you killed or put in jail. There has never been a greater variety of top notch weapon and martial arts training available for cops and private citizens. You need to start taking classes. You will be amazed at what you don’t know. I was already a state-certified police firearms instructor before I took my first professional shooting class. I learned more in that first day of professional gun training than I did in the two-week police “instructor” school. If you haven’t done any training outside the academy or your agency’s in-service classes, quite honestly your skills are likely to be subpar. You don’t know what you are doing. You are prone to being killed or doing something stupid that will get you fired or jailed. Even worse, you may mistakenly kill an innocent citizen who makes a minor error of judgement in your presence. Even though I’ve been teaching gun skills professionally for almost my entire career, I still take lots of outside training classes to keep my skills sharp. I make it my goal to seek out at least 80 hours a year of professional training over and above the training my agency provides. And I pay for those classes (and travel costs and ammo) out of my own pocket. I shoot my guns in practice at least weekly and pay for 5,000-10,000 rounds of practice ammo out of my own pocket every year. If you aren’t doing something similar, you are not ready to fight real bad guys on the street. The same is true with police defensive tactics training. If your only training is from the academy, you don’t know how to fight. You owe it to yourself to get at least a year or two of quality training (at least two sessions a week) at an outside martial arts studio that focuses on a realistic fighting art. And it better be a fighting art where you regularly train against other people who are trying to punch, kick, or choke you. Doing fancy katas in your dojo’s mirror isn’t adequate. Look at wrestling, Judo, Jujitsu, boxing, Muay Thai, MMA, or Krav Maga. It doesn’t have to be a lifetime passion. You just need to do the work necessary to beat most criminals. You’ll be amazed at how differently you look at situations on the street when you know how to fight. Your confidence will be a game changer and the criminals won’t even try you. If some guy high on marijuana doesn’t follow your commands instantaneously, you’ll have options other than shooting him. OR, of course, you can ignore my advice, roll the dice and hope nothing bad happens. I wish you luck if you choose that route. It hasn’t worked out so well for some other folks lately. If you’ve read this far, I thank you for your time. If you are a cop, I hope it prompts some positive change. As always, the views I express here are the rambling thoughts of a single curmudgeonly police trainer. They do not reflect the views of my fellow officers, supervisors, or agency.

I held off off on watching the dashcam video as long as I could because quite simply, I've seen enough videos of cops executing people. I just don't have the stomach to watch people die anymore. But then I did, and I cried. Like, for real, legit cried. I cried for all of the reasons Trevor Noah breaks down in this video. I cried because I am emotionally exhausted from seeing citizens murdered by the state's agents with no accountability. This has got to change. If it doesn't, you will see more and more incidents like what happened in Dallas. That's not an endorsement, but a statement of fact.

Sir Robert Peel published these nine principles of modern policing in 1829. They're recognized as the basis upon which modern law enforcement agencies have been formed. Give them a read and measure what you see today against them: The nine principles were as follows: To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment. To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect. To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws. To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives. To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life. To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective. To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary, of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty. To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.

I get it...there is no such thing as a "routine" traffic stop and each one has an automatic risk associated by potential alone. But LEO's concurrently need to get that citizens have a right to be armed as well, and that shouldn't take the situation from 0-60 absent any other cause. Myriad examples exist where lawfully armed citizens are treated as a threat without any proximate cause to justify such. The tread line on citizen carry is going up, and that's a good thing overall. LEO training needs to get officers in a mindset where not being the only one in a situation with a firearm is a condition of the job. Philando Castille died because his right to carry was feared instead of being respected.

Try not to put as much milk on it and it will stay crisp. Works for my Cheerios at least.

These are some of my scores from my travels this week. I always pick up extras in case anyone would like to purchase.

We didn’t mess with the Military Police because we knew we wouldn’t be answering to them; we would be answering to our XO or Captain. That usually doesn’t end well.

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That is, in fact, the NY1 trigger spring chassis. BLEGH!

I mentioned that I had bought/committed to buying these before, but I now have them both in hand. Both are Nightforce NXS scopes. The small one is a 1-4x24 that I bought from bud (thanks again!) the larger one is a 3.5-15x50. The glass is phenomenally clear, like whoah! I can't wait to get them mounted and start using them.

I just came here to comment on this. That Canadian broke the record set by a bloody Englishman! Our snipers need to step up their game, go USA!

This may be comparing apples to oranges, but I spent my time in the military and Gulf War as an MP. Like our civilian counterparts, many soldiers hated our guts. On a daily basis we interacted with guys who could thrash us in the blink of an eye. There are exceptions to every rule, but I believe that our civilian counterparts could stand to learn better interpersonal and communication skills, and require frequent refreshers on the escalation of force. As an MP, knowing that almost everyone that you interact with on a daily basis is as well or better trained to kill forces you to attempt to de-escalate every intervention. Daily I see videos where cops escalate a situation because someone bruises their ego. That being said, whether we like it or not, I feel that it's always best to be in total compliance with the officer even if you feel he is wrong. Fight your battle in the courtroom, not the roadside.

Joke if you must but I ALWAYS have a firearm in the bathroom. Why wouldn't you? It is probably the most vulnerable you will be during the day. You either have you pants around your ankles, and can't run, or you are naked and soaking wet. Either of those would put me at a distinct disadvantage.

Especially considering they each sent, what, a platoon each compared to the number of troops we have sent. Just by shear numbers we should occupy all of the top 100.

I didn't say it had anything to do with the jury. I am merely commenting that being a cop may be the only profession where race doesnt matter. They stop being black or brown or white, and just turn blue. And blue comes first.

Congrats! Now go out back and drag it through a mud hole, then sort-of spray it with the garden hose. That's the proper way to clean them.

I heard him say that he's NOT pulling it out.

I don't know, but I can tell you this, while in the army interacting with the civilian population in Iraq, I treated them with respect and was courteous but I always kept an American at my back and was always locked and loaded, never once had my safety engaged. Was I scared, I don't think so, but witnesses too many "non-combatants" take out friends at check points to not be cautious. As a gun carrying individual, and a huge proponent of our 2nd Amendment rights I still find it wise to make sure there is no misunderstanding between me and any LEO I encounter.

To the perp at least, bystanders could be a different story. Smh

The cop should have walked to the window, "Your driver side brake light and third brake light are out. Just wanted to let y'all know." And that should have been it. It should have never gone further. But because all civilians are criminals until proven innocent, Castile had to die and his daughter had to watch.

Many years ago I used to always think if anyone knew what they are doing it was the Police. Today I'm not so sure. On the other hand they have to be among the most underpaid professions on the planet and are being targeted buy loonies and people making excuses for their own ineptitude to be decent human beings and abide by the law. Thank goodness we have a lot of fine folks in uniform for it's a job I could never do without getting into trouble. I do hope if I ever get stopped by the police while armed I get one of the level headed ones.

Smokey Mountain Knife Works just sent out their first in a long long time automatic knife catalog. It's only for residents of Tennessee. I took 6 Smith & Wesson Extreme Ops auto knives to Peru as gifts to LEOS I either shot with or just came in contact with. I still carry my original one with most of the finish worn off. I may cerakote it but that would double it's value. It's only about $25 new now. Just because I could I got the BOKER KALASHNIKOV in desert tan for about $50 delivered. It's button doesn't stick out like the S&W but it's still a good deal. They have knives from about $20 to several hundred so you can get whatever you want, or aren't worried about tearing up, my big deal. Register your email ahead of time to get their offers and they'll send you a 10% discount. I don't have anything to do with them, I'm posting because it's been a while since I've actually seen them for sale. Cherokee Slim

Who doesn't love this movie? I've seen it about a million and eight times but it is on again and I am watching. Be well.

Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore has the 2.0s for $419. Active/Retired Military and Active Reservists can get a $50 rebate from S&W.

Korengal is now on Netflix. Watch Restrepo first, its the same platoon but more of a documentary of how the war was being fought. Korengal is very different, it has a focus on the personal experience of war. 173rdABN was a 19 year old Paratrooper humping a M249 up and down those mountains in the Korengal Valley. That might help you understand the name of his business..., DTV Tactical. DTV - - - DAMN THE VALLEY

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If you are going to keep posting news links at least post one that ties your thread title in. http://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/crime/2017/06/22/onetime-reserve-officer-facing-charges-loudon-county-shooting-deaths-sister-fiancee/419919001/

Just take the stock set off and drag it behind a truck on a gravel road. Lol

"Sources say a member of Joint Task Force 2 killed an Islamic State insurgent with a McMillan TAC-50 sniper rifle while firing from a high-rise during an operation that took place within the last month in Iraq. It took under 10 seconds to hit the target." I wonder which would have got there first. The bullet or the faint echo of "sorry"

Congratulations. Hopefully the RAS works out for you. Keep it lubed, watch for wear and shoot the crap out if it. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Damn, the US is in 5 place on the longest kill charts. How did we let Canada and England beat us? The top five are: 1: Canadian sniper in Iraq (2017): 3,450 meters. 2: British sniper Craig Harrison in Afghanistan (2009): 2,475 meters 3: Canadian sniper Rob Furlong in Afghanistan (2002): 2,430 meters 4: Canadian sniper Arron Perry in Afghanistan (2002): 2,310 meters 5: U.S. sniper Bryan Kremer in Iraq (2004): 2,300 meters

and had a time machine so you go back three years...

Take away.... don't mess with Canada. Lol

He made a lot of assumptions in this video. No one knows whether or not he was reaching for anything. Do I think he was reaching for his gun? No.. It doesn't make sense that he would politely tell the cop he was armed and then decide to pull it out. The only person that knows the truth is the cop. I agree we have a problem but I don't think it's as widespread as it seems. It's safe to assume that tens of thousands traffic stops are conducted every day. How many result in something like this? Lumping all cops together is no different than blaming all gun owners. I'd really like to hear from the jury as to why they felt the officer was innocent. I also didn't like how this video made it all about race. The cop that fired the shots is Mexican.

Yes indeed. I actually know a couple and that is obvious from the way they talk. It's like they think they're Navy Seals the way they carry themselves, talk and look down on others sometimes. Another thing about this topic. I have no idea what the training is about in the academies. How to survive is obviously very important and needed. But so is how to treat and interact with the public they are supposed to serve and protect. They should know the laws and have training on this on a regular basis. Even in my career, we had constant training, several times a year, yet in my job there was no threat of someone dying from being mis-identified. I'd also like to add, I read every week about police doing great things for someone. Going above and beyond the call. It's obvious that the problem is not the police force, it's individuals that shouldn't be there at all which is true in any profession. Maybe it's attitude, fear of getting shot, or other things that can play into the mix. I think it's mental attitude mostly. Some people shouldn't be there. I think sometimes these people are known within the force but no one wants to get involved, so what actually happens everyone suffers. The good cops suffer as public trust erodes and so does the public when it gets to an "us and them" attitude.

I think the issue with some of the younger officers is that they feel like a macho "operator" instead of a civil servant. My Papaw was a LEO for over 25 years and I am not sure he drew his firearm once. Not he was not a patrolman, but he was in on lots of events. Times were a little different. He used to have guys come by and thank him for helping them out after getting out of jail. Several would offer to mow his lawn or something for helping them straighten out.

Now look what you have done...I can't quit staring and wondering if there is a hidden 3rd gun..... D@mn you. Lol

In this thread I'm hearing some say to get your license (mine is always in a back pocket in my wallet) and registration (mine is always in the glove box) out and roll down the windows. If dark, then turn on the dome light and be ready when the officer approaches. I used to think this was the proper thing to do. Now, I'll say I'm not sure what to do. If you do the above, the approaching officer is going to see someone through the vehicles back or side glass, reaching into their pocket and/or someone leaning over and digging for the registration (or something....in his mind he's not sure). Both of these locations are often times where a firearm could possibly be. In todays world, I can see this turning out very bad especially if a certain situation occurs as it did in the OP, depending on the officers mental state at that moment (robbery a mile down the road and you fit the description for instance). I'm thinking it might be best to stay put with your hands on the top of the wheel and only respond to his commands after he has approached. Maybe even repeat his command back to him, "I understand you want me to reach into my back pocket and get out my wallet with ID sir. Is that correct?" Then, "I understand you want me to retrieve my registration from the vehicle glove box sir. Is that correct?" It's a really sad world we are living in when this might be necessary just to stay alive while going out to eat a meal, or to pick up the kids from school....ya know? And as far as people respecting others, that's completely out the window as far as so many people goes. Just go bass fishing with me on Chickamauga some day or night. You won't believe how selfish and the screw you attitudes that prevail. It's pathetic really.

Yep Liberal logic, make it less accurate, so it's less deadly....

Some things have happened in the last week we need to learn from. Two corrections Officers were murdered on a prisoner transport bus in Georgia. There is video of the murders, but I have not seen it. This is all mere speculation on my part. Because the two murderers had to come through a locked gate to get to the Officers, I assume they forced their way through or somehow unlocked the gate. I’m not sure how that could happen without the Officers having time to get their guns out. So it makes me wonder...Were they thinking they weren’t justified in shooting these guys because they were unarmed. If that is the case it cost them their lives. They were justified in shooting them as obviously they were in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm. The results support that. I just read in another post that we have a legal system not a justice system. Absolutely, I have said that several times here. Being a former Police Officer I am absolutely sure of that. I am also absolutely sure that will not change. Justice? If you come through the incident alive you will get as much justice as you can afford. A poor person with a Public defender will likely not get the same outcome as a rich person or a high profile case where the “Big Names” are involved. Otto Warmbier died this week as the result of a murder. My guess is that he was beaten as soon as he got to prison and had a traumatic brain injury. I suspect the North Koreans waited a year so as not show any evidence. But that just a WAG. The Officer that shot Philando Castile was acquitted in court. What do these three incidents have in common? Situational awareness, common sense, and legalities. You are responsible for teaching your kids how to stay alive. One of the guys at work today asked “What do you think made Otto rip down that poster?” I said I can only guess that he forgot where he was and mistakenly thought he had some rights. He certainly didn’t deserve to die over it; but he did. Was Philando Castile going for a gun? I don’t pretend to know I didn’t hear the evidence. But I’ve been in shootings and had a gun pulled on me more than once. There is no time; you act or die. In this case a jury believed that they would have believed they were in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm. People need to know that whether it’s a cop, citizen, or armed robber, if some pulls a gun on them they have two choices, listen to exactly what the person is telling you to do and don’t make any wrong moves, or fight. There is no middle of the road; there is no time to think. Justice? We will never really know but the Officer stood trial and a jury acquitted him. I think the two corrections Officers may have taken that one or two very valuable seconds of hesitation and it cost them their lives. What would have happened had they gunned down the two unarmed convicts as they came through the gate? Well.. there would be plenty of people callings for their heads. Stay alive…. And teach your kids how to stay alive. If they are having an interaction with a cop and it goes wrong; there will be a time and a place to deal with it. Trying to deal with it right then on the street will likely end badly for them. I wish I could help kids understand traffic stops and the ramifications of DUI. They get so much bad information. Some of it coming from their parents and teachers, and a mountain of it coming from lawyers.

Kids doing dumb kid things is normal. I get the (perhaps incorrect) impression that Dave wasn't talking about 20 yr olds. If a 20 yr old with an American passport really thinks being touristy in North Korea is a good idea.... those mistakes were made long before.

Deadline is June 30th, there are a lot of unpaid knives on page 1. Let's go, don't let the man down.....

Let me know when you find a group of kids who don't do dumb things ...

Well, as many of y'all may have seen, a verdict was handed down the other day in this case. I did my best to stay away from the politics of it last time, but I want to state for the record that I am extremely upset at the outcome of this trial. I believe it to be yet another reminder that we have a legal system instead of a justice system. Philando Castille did not receive any justice in this matter, posthumous or otherwise. That said, that's not the reason I am reviving this thread. I want to post Colion Noir's open letter on the subject. My hope is that as a name many of y'all are familiar with, and hopefully whose work and voice y'all value, his words may find some resonance where others may find resistance because of who they are

The only reason I know of people removing bolts is as some kind of security measure, you know less tempting to those who might have sticky fingers. Being the suspicious type I would be very suspicious of a rifle without its bolt for $40.

I use to use minnows all the time for Crappie fish untilta buddy of mine took me one time. I asked him if we were going to stop and get minnows and he said, nope, don't need any. When were got to where we were going to fish he handed me a rod already rigged and it had a Crappie tube bait on it in Black body with chartreuese tails and I no more than got it down in the brush pile before I had a big fat Crappie on. We both caught our limits in keepers in about 1 1/2 hours. Caught a bunch of fish. If they quit biting one color you switched to another. The one I caught most on was the Red Body with Chartruese tails. If you have never tried them you might want to give the a try. You can catch about 8 or 10 fish on 1 tube..............

I've done this with 3 different firearms. First are my Beretta 92 series just because I really like them and got an awesome deal on a Wilson Combat 92G to compliment my 92fs Centurion. I'm after the M9A3 andl an M9 or M9A1 as well. I collect the Vickers Tactical Glock 17's so I have one of each color. And lastly, I've owned a few of the FN FiveseveN pistols. I'm down to 2 of them and bought my last one because it was a good deal. I also liked it being all black with the forward cocking serrations instead of dark grey with light grey controls and it looking a little odd up front. MHO of course. Love how they shoot! hlb14, you've got to be the only person I know that has multiples of a carry gun. My thinking would be to have one that I carry and shoot. That way I know the gun and how it shoots and the type of rounds it likes.

I have top-end audio/video recorders (with real time upload to the cloud) in my vehicles. When I am pulled over I politely state that the entire interaction is being recorded and uploaded. I then cooperate fully but never say more than I have to say. I have on occasion refused to answer certain questions that I thought were off base. Fortunately, I have never had any trouble and feel I have been treated fairly. Having said this, I think it is entirely possible that a black man under the same circumstances may have a higher probability of being treated differently. Any way you cut it we've got a problem that's not going to be fixed easily.