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I just picked her up today. Not the best picture, but I’m excited to have this little beauty. For now I’m mounting a Holosun HE515GM-Green dot on it. If I’m not crazy about the dot, I’ll probably move on to an Aimpoint or RMR on a mount. I’m going to keep this simple.

With all the doom and gloom going on around us I thought folks could use a "feel good" smile so............................................ ................................................. Smile upload anonymous pictures

RFTH Scenario Discussion Series: "In Your Vehicle, Surrounded By An Angry Mob" I am going to start a series of scenario discussions using events ripped from the news headlines. These will come as events warrant and justify, and the purpose of them will be to help us think through situations while we have the luxury of time and without the pressure that comes from being in the moment. The intent is to prepare us for things that might actually happen by evulating real-world occurances, dissecting them, and thinking critically about strategies and tactics. As with any structured conversation, there will be some parameters. Guidelines for Participating Discussing the actual event(s) that inspired the topic are fine so long as the discussion is germane to evaluating what went right, what went wrong, and learning from it. Comments should be meant to ask serious questions or provide serious answers. Humor should be used sparingly and appropriately. Comments should pe productive and not solely meant to entertain. We strongly recommend that you remember that the Internet has a long and very indelible memory. Don't make comments here that you would not want your lawyer to have to defend in court before a jury of people carefully selected by the prosecution to maximize the odds of sending you to prison, or worse. Be open to criticism and be able to support your statements with historical evidence or real data. If you are simply offering an opinion, please state such but, again, be open to criticism. The point of this is to make us all smarter and better prepared. Recognize that profiling is a legitimate tool if used appropriately to compare people, the environment, and activities to a baseline of what is normal or conventional for a given place or time. I would refer you to the concepts of the US Marine Corps Combat Hunter program or to the excellent book Left of Bang for more details on this. Profiling deemed to be driven by racism, bigotry, or ignorance will not be allowed, however. In the case of ignorance we willt try to educate, but racism and bigotry will not be allowed. All other TGO rules apply. The Scenario: Recent civil unrest following the death of George Floyd while in the custody of Minneapolis, MN police and even more recently the death of Rayshard Brooks after being shot by police in Atlanta, GA has proven that mobs of angry people can assemble quickly. These uprisings might catch the unware completely off guard. These uprisings have closed down public roadways and included the destruction of private and public property, as well as assaults on law enforcement officers and the general public. On Saturday, June 13, 2020, rioters said to be protesting the Brooks killing set fire to the Wendy's restaurant that owns the parking lot where Brooks was shot by police. In another part of Atlanta a major interstate highway was shut down when protestors marched onto the roadway. [source: https://www.foxcarolina.com/atlanta-protesters-block-interstate-set-fire-to-cars-at-fast-food-restaurant-where-police-killed/article_e45c6e96-3aef-5cdf-9c8a-f0b2f5fabc51.html] While some reconnaisance ahead of time of an area through which you might be traveling or participating in other activities could spare you from being sucked into some protests, others -- such as these -- can spawn rather unexpectedly and without much forewarning. For this discussion, you are asked to consider that you are driving through an area not necessarily prone to violent demonstrations when suddenly a group of people march into the roadway blocking you, the motorists ahead of you, and the motorists behind you. You are effectively "swarmed" by a mass of very angry individuals who appear to be engaged in a protest of some sort. How would you respond? What would your order of options be and how would you work through them to determine the best option given increasingly escalating hostility around you?

You can’t go wrong with a Liberty safe. I have a Liberty and a Cannon. Both are good, but the Liberty is better. I could use another one. The guys who said get a larger one than you think you’ll need give good advice! Make sure you spring for fire protection. Buy once, cry once. Don’t cheap out on this one! The Safe House and DT McCall’s both deliver and provide good customer service.

There are many good quality safes out there. Just stick to the better brands and you'll be fine. Don't try to go cheap. Good safes are expensive. Cheap safes can be even more expensive if you're robbed. Ditto on buy bigger than you need. You will fill it in time. I also highly recommend going with a mechanical dial combination lock. Electronic locks have been known to be troublesome and batteries do die.

Figure something else out. You can’t find a safe that holds both. If you do, you’re doing something wrong. Either not enough guns or ammo. Safes fill up real fast.

There's a Liberty dealer in Murfreesboro. Heard good things about them. I have a Liberty I bought from Gander Mountain before they closed

I shopped for a long time and picked up a large used TL30 from the safe house and then a nice new Superior Supreme SM35 from https://www.parkerssafesandvaults.com/ Parker's is in Shelbyville so it may be closer to you. I couldn't find anywhere that beat his prices and his install service was great.

Having looked at safes with the intent to buy a larger one, I know mechanical locks are a lot less common than they used to be (at least in the ones in my price range). If you end up with an electronic lock one make sure it is the kind with a backup key. That way if the electronics go out, you can still get into the safe. And an additional +1 on buying bigger. You will possibly find all types of thing you want to put in there that are not guns until you fill it up with guns. Buy once, cry once as the saying goes, Plus, you only have to convince your significant other ONCE if you go that way and that is necessary.

Many excellent points, although I have been accused of being a Glock fanboy and won’t argue. $30 and 30 minutes will turn a Glock trigger from a hag to a centerfold. The $1350 to make a Glock equal a Canik seems a bit high. Caniks are becoming popular. I haven’t seen one that will run in a match yet, but a guy took second in the USPSA Production Nationals last year with one, so there’s something to them.

Last month I got the Canik Elite SC to go with my SFx. This month I got it’s direct competition. For those who have been wondering what they’d be like neck and neck to compare, here ya go. There seems to be a lot of hoopla between these two. I’ve seen a lot of comparisons, so here’s what seems to be of interest to people. I took shots from every angle of comparison. People talk a lot about the glock grip angle, but the Canik seems to be almost identical. They both shoot well, but the blocky grip of the Glock is not comfortable compared to the Canik. Also, because of the trigger difference going between them back and forth screwed me up to where I had to step back and get on target with the Canik again - which I shoot exceptionally well. After shooting the glock I came back and was shooting low with the Canik for the first mag. You really need to get used to one or the other and you can be on target with either one pretty nicely. Going back and forth between them didn’t go well. Lol clickable thumbs

Still waiting also.

I wish! These pics got me to wondering again about handgun storage. Do you use some sort of racking device, keep them wrapped in silicon storage socks, or as some I've seen...left in origional boxes and wrap with dessicant bag inside? Really interest in getting some feedback on this. Thanks for any comments.

David, there's nothing I can really add to this topic that will be of substance. But I do want to say that this is a very good thing to think long and hard on. I no longer have a full size truck, so I'd consider my options limited in the case of pushing another vehicle aside. In consideration of our ages and very limited physical mobility; staying put inside the vehicle as long as possible is primary. After getting out, or being forcefully removed(and that's the only way I see us exiting in this situation), I think adrenalin and panic mode would probably set in. I'm certain my wife would be screaming, and that would get me going as well. So eminent harm or injury would likely have me with a weapon in hand by then. I know that's not really the best thing, but to be truthful, that's likely what would happen with us. Nowhere near ideal, but at least I can face what my likely reaction would be. I'll be watching this thread closely, in hopes of learning how better to react. In an ideal world, this will never happen. Sadly none of us live there anymore.

Congrats it's a nice range. Do you plan to shoot long range?

How I imagine some members' basements...

Well it IS a gun forum!

The U.S. Army doesn't have as many guns as some guys here........

I don't have as many guns as some here lol

All depends on how much ammo and how many guns. Figure if they say it is a 64 gun safe, you will get 32 in there without beating them up or cutting off bolt handles. That is without any ammo cans,. Plus if you figure stacking full ammo cans on the shelves provided, you better look at the weight rating first. A lot of the shelves are far from high load sturdy.

Looks nice, sure is flat down there.

Still waiting

In my lifetime this area has been relatively quite the haven against most of the ills that nature throws at us. - OS edit: new IHME projection has lowered TN fatalities to under 2K by Oct 1 while USA overall raised to over 200K.

Very interesting thought experiment. @buck1032, what's your break point for unhooking the 5th wheel if things are going bad? How long does that process take you? Can you abort half way through if things get much worse much quicker than anticipated? Would it make sense to simply plan your routes such that you always have the ability to maneuver as needed with it attached, and eliminate stops that don't meet that bar? (I.e., Don't go do touristy type stuff on side streets for the day until your 5th wheel is set up wherever you plan to leave it for that day, and once you're hooked up plan to travel to your destination with only required/ wide open stops...)

those are the go to suburban dispatch rounds. I have a couple boxes of the CCI Quiets and the Aguila's are much quieter although haven't had any issues with the effectiveness of either.

Some folks store ammo inside the safe, others don't. Your call. I don't simply because I don't have the room. But if you buy oversized as suggested, I see no problem with putting ammo inside until you run out of room. BTW: get the best fire resistance rating you can. It does matter.

It started May 25th.

Here's a better "play by play " of the incident...... https://americanhandgunner.com/the-ayoob-files/the-lessons-of-tim-gramins/ THE LESSONS OF TIM GRAMINS By Massad Ayoob Situation: Backup is racing to help you as you shoot it out with a heavily armed bank robber, but you’re alone for now and running low on ammo. Lesson: What’s on your person may be all you’ll have to fight with, so carry enough. Solid positions and aimed fire deliver fight-stopping hits … and knowing what you’re fighting for will make you fight harder. August 25, 2008. It’s a sunny and beautiful late afternoon in Skokie, one of the separately incorporated communities surrounding the city of Chicago, Illinois. Of Skokie Police Department’s 124 officers, about 15 are patrolling on the street during the three-to-eleven shift. Inside the Crown Vic Police Interceptor squad car of Officer Tim Gramins, the dedicated ISPERN radio — the Illinois State Police Emergency Radio Network, reserved for serious emergencies — comes to life. A bank has been robbed in nearby Northbrook. The suspect is a black male, average size, driving a white Pontiac. A witness has reported a possible plate number, from a series tracked to the city of Chicago. This puts Skokie in between. SPD units proceed to the Edens Expressway, I-94 South, hoping to interdict. Two Skokie units pull over a man and vehicle fitting the description but quickly determine he’s not the suspect they’re looking for. It is then Gramins spots a white Grand Prix, with a lone driver who fits the description. They make eye contact with each other, and Gramins recognizes an expression he has seen many times. He calls it “the ‘Oh, boy, here’s the police’ look.” The man floors his accelerator with a sudden lane change, and the chase is on. In Pursuit Hitting his lights and siren, Gramins radios in his situation. He knows other units will be responding, but has no way to determine how soon backup will catch up with him, particularly in late rush hour traffic. The suspect veers his getaway car across three lanes of traffic to hit the Touhy Avenue exit east, and then bangs a right onto Skokie Boulevard. In the powerful CVPI, Gramins expertly remains on his tail. The chase swerves onto Estes Street after a block, through the intersection of Keating, then right on Kilpatrick. And then, the fugitive springs the trap. Ambush! Here, in a quiet suburban neighborhood right out of a Leave It To Beaver rerun, Gramins sees his quarry slam on his brakes and come to an abrupt stop in the street. Action beats reaction: Gramins responds quickly but by the time his squad car has stopped it is only 15 feet behind the fugitive’s vehicle. The white car’s door pops open and out comes the suspect. Gramins sees a silver-colored auto pistol in the man’s hand as it rises over the steering wheel, coming out the door, and swinging toward him. As this is happening, training and practice send Gramins’ left hand across his torso to swiftly release his seat belt, and his right hand to unholster his GLOCK 21 service pistol. But Ray Maddox, a 37-year-old Gangster Disciple gang member who has sworn to kill the next cop who stops him rather than go back behind bars, gets the first shots off. Bam, bam, bam, bam! Gramins can hear and even count all four of them, can see Maddox running toward him firing one-handed. Now, though, the cop’s own gun is up in both hands and he fires right through the windshield, indexed on his target, tracking the gunman as he approaches the patrol car door, still shooting. Incredibly — perhaps, for Gramins, even miraculously — both men now run out of ammunition and go simultaneously to slidelock. Second Magazine Both combatants react instantly to the change in the situation. Maddox spins around and runs back to the Pontiac. Gramins explodes out the driver’s door of the squad car, seeking to escape the trap his vehicle has become, and runs between the cars to the right. He’s reloading on the run, ejecting the spent magazine, slapping in a fresh one, and closing the slide. At approximately this time in the gun battle, he is able to radio in: the suspect is out of his vehicle, shots have been fired and he (Gramins) needs help. The gunfire has captured the attention of the residents on this quiet street. A 12-year-old boy skateboarding on the sidewalk runs into his house and tells his parents, “There’s a police officer in the street being shot at, call 9-1-1!” Gramins will later tell American Handgunner, the boy is “the bravest kid I’ve ever known.” Gramins can hear the boy’s dad yelling to him like a cheering section, “Get him! Shoot him!” In the heat of the moment, Gramins has time to take some comfort in this. Reloaded, he charges the suspect, now on the other side of the vehicles. The officer fires as he goes. He will tell me later, “He (was moving) back toward my car. I don’t think he knew I was off to his left. I charged right at him, and ended up three feet away. I was shooting one-handed when I got close. As I ran toward him firing, I saw no effect.” Third Magazine Seeing his GLOCK at slide lock again, Gramins sprints to an angle where he can get his patrol car between himself and the gunman, who is still shooting at him but with a different pistol. Again the cop is reloading on the run, demoralized his gunfire has done nothing to stop his deadly attacker, and acutely aware he’s on his last magazine. Gramins is now to the right of their two cars, and he sees Maddox is now to the left of his patrol car, using it for cover and crouching down low. An intensively trained SWAT team leader, Gramins tries to use the technique LAPD SWAT employed to successfully neutralize the machinegun-armed suspect Matasureanu in the infamous North Hollywood bank robbery shootout of 1997: he points rather than aims his G21 and fires as he moves, trying to ricochet his bullets under the car and into Maddox’s legs to bring him down. The angle isn’t right, though, and he sees his bullets hitting his own car and front right tire. Time to change the plan, he realizes. Finale Gramins sees a tree between the sidewalk and the cars in the street. He dives prone behind it, and — trained on the precision rifle as a SWAT cop — realizes he now has the best cover and the most solid shooting position he has had since the gunfight began. Maddox has been popping up and shooting at him like a jack-in-the-box and then crouching deep, watching Gramins from under the car. The cop sees Maddox looking at him now from under the police car. Carefully, consciously focusing hard on his front sight, Gramins follows legendary Border Patrol shootist Bill Jordan’s advice (“Take your time, quick!”) and squeezes off three rapid but still carefully-aimed shots, holding on the would-be cop-killer’s head. On the third, Maddox collapses face down. He is no longer shooting. A large pool of blood begins to spread outward from the gunman’s head. Gramins keeps him covered. About a minute later, the first responding officers, Detective (now Sergeant) Barnes and Detective Mendez, arrive. Both are fellow SWAT team members. Gramins feels a sense of relief as the backups kick the downed antagonist’s gun out of his reach, and handcuff him. It’s over. Reconstruction will show from the first shot of the gunfight to the last, 56 seconds have elapsed. During this time 54 pistol shots have been fired, 33 from Gramins’ GLOCK .45, and 21 by Maddox from two pistols. Wound Assessment Raymond Maddox did not survive. Autopsy showed he had been hit by 17 of Gramins’ 230-gr. Speer Gold Dot .45 hollowpoints. Some had hit extremities, including upper limbs as the officer’s bullets tracked up the gunman’s arms while he was firing at the cop. But Maddox had also been hit in one kidney, both lungs … and the heart. All three of Gramins’ last carefully braced, precisely aimed shots had indeed hit the head, but two had smashed into his face and only the last had pierced the brain and ended the fight. Gramins did not emerge entirely unscathed. He caught a bullet fragment in one shin, and bullets going through the glass of the car had sent fragments into his face. He also suffered a significant hearing loss in his left ear, most likely due to firing 13 rounds from his .45 from inside the closed patrol car. He, at the hospital in a room adjacent to where the medicos were trying to save Maddox’s life, also had to hear a doctor angrily cry, “Why did the cop have to shoot him so many times?” If only the physician had known … The shooting death of Raymond Maddox at the hands of Officer Timothy Gramins was ruled a justifiable homicide. No lawsuit was filed. Gramins received multiple awards for his heroism in the encounter and was later promoted to sergeant. Weapon Assessment Both the would-be cop-killer and the officer who neutralized him were heavily armed. They had access to seven loaded firearms between them. Gramins deployed only one; Maddox used two. Maddox opened fire with a stainless steel 9mm auto which Gramins first thought looked like a Taurus copy of a Beretta, but turned out to be a 16-shot S&W Model 5906. It was recovered, empty, from the front seat of Maddox’s Pontiac, its last spent casing stovepiped where Maddox had dumped it as he grabbed his second weapon. It was a Bersa .380 pistol. The .380 was apparently hit and, unknown to the cop, rendered inoperable by one of Gramins’ .45 rounds near the end of the gunfight. Also in the front seat of the gunman’s car was an SKS semiautomatic rifle, fully loaded with a 30-rd. magazine, and in a box. At least one analyst has suggested Gramins’ charging toward Maddox while emptying the second magazine in his GLOCK kept the gunman from accessing the high-powered semiautomatic rifle. Gramins was told later Maddox’s weapons were tied to four homicides in the city of Chicago. Gramins had been carrying his primary sidearm, the 13+1 capacity GLOCK 21, with only 12 rounds per mag because he had found with his magazines, it was sometimes difficult to positively seat them loaded all the way up if the slide was forward. He had the two spare magazines on his duty belt, and also a 9mm subcompact GLOCK 26 backup gun in a holster attached to the Second Chance ballistic vest under his uniform shirt. A Remington 870 pump shotgun loaded with five 12-gauge slugs was racked above him inside the patrol car, and as a SWAT officer, he had an AR-15 in the trunk with several 30-rd. magazines. Like his opponent, he was never able to deploy any of the heavy artillery. Lessons There are many lessons to be learned from Tim Gramins’ incident, some more obvious than others. Carry enough ammunition to finish a worst case scenario fight. After this event, which has been widely publicized among law enforcement, Tim Gramins put his .45 in his gun safe and went with a 9mm. He told me, “We are allowed to pick our weapon. GLOCK, S&W, Beretta and SIG are authorized, and we have our choice of 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP, all with department issue Gold Dot ammunition.” His duty pistol is now the GLOCK 17, loaded to full capacity with 17+1 rounds of 124-gr. +P 9mm, backed up by 11 rounds of the same in his GLOCK 26, which of course can feed G17 magazines. A slim-line Safariland triple magazine pouch carries three more 17-rd. mags in uniform, and he carries two 33-rd. 9mm magazines behind the trauma shield of his ballistic vest. This adds up to 146 rounds on tap. A widely-circulated police article by our mutual friend Charles Remsberg made Tim famous in cop circles as the policeman who carries almost 150 rounds of ammo on his person. “I can carry a hundred rounds more ammo, and it only weighs a couple of pounds,” Gramins told American Handgunner. “Round count seems to be skyrocketing in police gun battles, police running out of ammunition. I don’t want to be in such position. I came close to it, with only four rounds left in my GLOCK 21.” The dynamic movement required to escape the kill zone kept Gramins from accessing either the shotgun in the squad car’s cockpit or the AR-15 in its trunk. One lesson this taught him: what you have on your person may be all you have to fight with once a fight goes mobile. Aggressive humans can soak up multiple lethal wounds and still continue homicidal action for surprising periods of time. People have taken multiple, massive wounds even from high powered rifles and shotguns, and stayed in the fight. Contrary to popular belief, a heart shot like the one Maddox sustained well before Gramins’ brain shot killed him does not necessarily guarantee the hoped-for “instant one-shot stop.” The medical journals devoted to treatment of trauma show multiple survivors of gunshot wounds to the heart, and forensic pathologists have recorded numerous cases of people who continued conscious, purposeful, sometimes successfully homicidal actions after being shot in the heart. Even if cardiac function is completely shut down, the recipient of the wound has up to 15 or 16 seconds of action left before blood pressure drops below the level it will no longer sustain consciousness, and not all wounds of the heart cause total shutdown. This appears to have been the case with Raymond Maddox in this shooting, who by the way had a “clean toxicology screen,” which showed no alcohol or drugs on board. Forensic pathologists tell us there is no post-mortem artifact for adrenalin dump, and even if there was, its effect on the given person experiencing it cannot be precisely predicted. This shooting appears to be a classic example. Mortal wounds are not necessarily instantly fatal. The study of gunfights is replete with cases of “men who were dead, but didn’t know it yet.” It was not possible to reconstruct exactly when Maddox took the cardiac hit, but it is absolutely possible he was up and running for almost a minute despite a .45 caliber gunshot wound to the heart before the final bullet to the brain short-circuited his central nervous system and ended the encounter. Training is critical! As a SWAT cop prior to this shooting, Tim had extensive experience shooting through barriers such as windshield glass, from both sides, and this stood him in good stead in the opening of the gunfight when he essentially “broke the ambush” by returning fire through the windshield from the driver’s seat. Extensive Simunitions-based “force on force” role-play had prepared him as best as possible for shooting a murderous criminal who was shooting at him. Know what you’re fighting for! The day of this shooting was the eighth birthday of Tim Gramins’ son. Prior to hearing the emergency call over ISPERN, Tim had been pondering when he could take some break time to buy his son the Star Wars game he wanted for his birthday. Throughout the gunfight, Tim was aware of his need to survive for his son and for the rest of his family. He credits this determination for seeing him through the deadly gun battle. The very term “gunfight” is really a misnomer: the guns don’t fight, the people do, and those who know what they’re fighting for have a powerful psychological advantage. Finally, the lost lesson of this incident seems to be the importance of aimed fire. At the end, from a solid prone position where Tim had his hardest “front sight focus” of the fight, was when three rapid shots to the head all struck the intended target, the last one “shutting off the computer” and bringing the death battle to a decisive close on the side of The Good Guy. The author wishes to thank Sergeant Tim Gramins and the trainers of the Skokie Police Department for the outcome of this shooting, and fellow police writers Chuck Remsberg and Dave Scoville for first spreading the valuable lessons of this life-or-death battle to the law enforcement community.

A lot depends whether you are solo, have an abled body friend with you, or wife, kids , elderly family member. If possible, turn around and leave even if this means driving against traffic or crossing a median or other boundary. Unfasten seatbelt and stay in car. Roll down window less that 1/2", makes it harder to break with impact. Rolling down anymore and one can grab the top and simply pull until it breaks. If car breached, only choice is to protect your life and/or others. If solo, you may be able to exit your car and make a run for it. For me, I've will always travel with a long gun just for this occasion. Very fluid and difficult situation. Some decisions will be based on what you see happening to other vehicles and occupants.

Drive forward while accelerating. A vehicle makes a quite formidable weapon as well as a deterrent when operated correctly. This actually happened once. We made a wrong turn in Hopkinsville while going to a motorcross track. Several “young gentlemen” lined up shoulder to shoulder blocking the road. We were in my buddie’s mom’s Cadillac. He asked what he should do. I told him if he wanted to get back home, his best option was to mash the accelerator. They promptly decided to yield the right of way to us. Had we stopped, I doubt it would have turned out as well.

Maybe not a centerfold, but definitely a looker lol. No need for a $200 trigger kit. This is what I do: Polish internal trigger parts everywhere they interact (except the rear of the striker). I like Flitz and a dremel. 4.5 Wolff striker spring—any lower and you get into light strike issues with a stock striker (and they can keep their damn lightened strikers lol) reduced safety plunger spring if you like; polish the whole plunger stock trigger spring 3.5 or - connector of your choice—OEM, Taran Tactical, Ghost, ZEV, whatever. Just make sure it’s shiny. My current choice is a Lone Wolf 342. A Glock armorer friend swears that maritime spring cups are worth a 1/4 pound reduction. I found some aftermarket ones cheap, don’t remember the brand. You can get silly and get a safe 2 pound trigger if you’re willing to spend some money on a striker and play fast and loose with the striker spring. It’s not for me, though.

I like lever guns. Had a scoped Marlin 30 30 and gave it to a grandson. My father had a 243 lever gun, back in the dark ages, which is where my love for them started. The only lever gun I have now is a 38Spl/357 Mag Henry big boy. Never had any in the calibers you found, but I will say they were good finds. Enjoy!

I hate Glock but I'll give them credit when necessary. Half of your points against them have been solved by the gen 5 or MOS models.

Ah Walther... My first Walther, I just dropped $1,800.00 for a PPQ Q5 Match Pro SF. Did all my diligent research and watched many Youtube videos. When it came in last Friday, it was missing all three of the optic plates. Every video I watched it came with the three plate, there was absolutely nothing on Walthers website I could find about the optic plates. [it's buried in the manual section somewhere they said?] Long story short. Got an email from Walther stating they stopped including the plates last November, not to raise the cost of the pistol again. You can order "one" for free, still waiting for it and haven't shot it yet. After two matches shooting an optic on my Canik SFX, I'm still having difficulty picking up the dot in a timely manner. As soon as I do pick it up, I like and shoot it better than the iron sights [old eyes]; but it's just one more thing that can and eventually will go wrong in a competition.

Yeah I know. It was just a joke about how every 4 years we hear the same "OMG!!!! That dirtbag in the Oval Office won't leave when MY guy (or girl) gets elected!!!! Buy guns and ammo! THE REVOLUTION IS COMING!". Prices spike and supply plummets. That's always followed by either the incumbent winning or an orderly transition of power then over the next two years supply returns to normal and prices fall back again. Then it's time to ramp up the rhetoric again.

Just like in 2016 . . . and 2012 . . . and 2008 . . . and 2004 . . . I'm beginning to think that a good cyclical approach is to buy stock in gun/ammo companies at the midterms, and sell it on the Presidential years.

If you didn't feel you were in enough danger to shoot them in the chest then you were not in enough danger to shoot them PERIOD. Lethal force is LETHAL force and shooting someone a LITTLE is just like shooting them a lot. Once the gun comes out and goes BANG everything changes. Its not just for funsies anymore.....And what happens when you try to play Lone Ranger and shoot dude in the gun hand and the bullet ricochets off his gun and into his carotid artery? Or you shoot dude in the leg because you "don't want to hurt him" and you hit him square in the femoral artery and he bleeds out in 60 seconds? Now what? Oooops? "Sorry, my bad"...? There is a reason that virtually all police departments including the FBI dropped "shooting to wound" as a strategy a half century ago. And the only people that argue for it is people who have ZERO experience with, or education in violence. So they should probably hop on their unicorn and ride it over the rainbow and stop making ignorant suggestions about things they have no idea about.

Tell Joe that’s a stupid idea. Just like all his other ideas.

I can help you with that.

Lately I’ve been curious to know what I could get away with in the back yard. Have really wanted to try some CCI Quiets but none are readily available locally....as in I want them now without driving all over town. Went to Academy today needing something else and checked the .22 shelf just in case their online inventory was wrong. No CCI’s but they did have a couple of boxes of the Super Colibri. Known about these for years but never fooled with them because didn’t think they’d clear the barrel of my old 27” Winchester 67A. Well, today’s version of that ammo is not primer only. There is in fact a little bit of powder in there. Enough to easily clear a 27” barrel, punch right through an aluminum water bottle at 8 yards, and satisfy my immediate urge. Not any louder than a pellet gun at all. I’m about to rain hell on chipmunks.

Be still my pounding heart.

my question was, can anyone post any links to articles or video explaining why in a tense situation trying to aim for the head or limbs will end in failure rather than aiming for center mass