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It was horrible about the 5 year old boy being killed by being shot in the head at point blank range by a murderer in front the boys 2 sisters and not one major news network covered the story!! Reason being it was not something that fits their criteria as news. Reason why is because it was a black man doing the shooting and the boy he killed was white!! I wonder if it would have made the news if it was a white man doing the same thing to a black 5 year old boy in front of his 2 sisters? That is just proof of just how biased the main stream medias have become. It is proof that all lives don't matter to the medias. Only black lives make news when they are killed. If I was an advertiser in any of the news networks that failed to report all the news I would be pulling my support because there are many other formats that millions of Americans watch that their advertising funds would pay them dividends far more on. As it stands right now the main stream medias are losing thousand's of viewers daily and their ratings are dropping like a lead balloon.

I snagged a 407K for my P365XL last week, and I liked it so much I immediately ordered a 407C to replace the Romeo 3 on my 22/45 Lite. I have astigmatism, and these are the first red dots I've seen where the dot actually looks like a circle instead of a star.

Yep, I saw this too. If the races were reversed this would be a national outrage with all the help coming from the "news" media. We'd probably see more "protests". More cities would burn, etc. How the media has maintained even a shred of credibility to this day is fascinating and terrifying to me.

I can’t decide whether the democrat party controls the media narrative, the media controls the democrat narrative, or they are one and the same.

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I agree. The Californians NEED to be buying all they can get before the state tries to stop it again. Tennesseans could help by not drying up the supply lines unnecessarily. We're on the same page

Received my permit in the mail today!

They didn't cover a major Israel - UAE story.

Do you all think CNN is pretty mainstream? Pretty liberal? This story is on the main page of their website...

Remember Michael Brown? They covered that story for months nearly non stop. Turns out, he needed shooting. Have you seen them report this on air?

I think CNN was seeing their ratings tanking and have realized that not reporting all the news is killing their advertising bottom line so they have began moving more to the middle and away from the left!.....JMHO

Thanks for the link. I’ve cancelled the order and going with Brownells.

A force-on-force class is the closest we can get to the real thing, outside of being involved in the real thing. I learned so much about myself, not just gun stuff in that class. Even though you KNOW it isn't real, and the bullets aren't real, the adrenaline still hits and fingers become flippers and the world changes in those class scenarios. Taking one of those type classes is a real eye opening experience.

John Y. Nelson, a scout and driver of the Deadwood Stagecoach

Ha. Different....but on the surface.... Not quite the same as 100 million+ folks in all states driven by mass media educed panic and thinking they need a lifetime supply. That was selfish people buying more than their needs, or with the intent of reselling. A few 10's of thousands of CA gun owners though feel that way right now. Intended for those that may not follow the politics or care about CA. If you can wait, you just don't need em anyway. But if you just bought a gun and need a couple mags, good to know. Unless one thinks a few here may be stacking mags to the ceiling to go with their TP collection

It's stuff like this that creates the problem. If you were planning on getting them... get them. If not, hold of till supply replenishes. However, if you just have to.. you also probably need to run to the store for milk, bread, and toilet paper RIGHT NOW!

Some attention is better than no attention......JMHO

I doubt they'll ever cover this story from every possible angle, even the court case that followed like they did the Trayvon Martin story. They could if they really wanted to. They have some exceptional actors reading teleprompters as we speak. But they won't, it's not on the agenda. I'd love to be wrong about all that but I'm not holding my breath. Edited to add: Pretty sure this story broke locally on Monday or Tuesday this week. I've seen people all over the internet outraged that the media isn't picking up the story. CNN probably gave it some attention just to save face.

I work just south of Downtown Memphis. When the protests and rioting started up I added a 300blk pistol to my EDC backpack, for just in case. I have been pleasantly surprised at the peacefulness of our protests in this city. Memphis is not normally known for doing something right, other than Blues and BBQ.

I took "The Fight" from Tactical Response and used Simunition rounds.

That Eagle was just giving an invader a lesson in how America should be treating all invaders into America. Swift justice and then booted out of country. Authorities need to take lessons from the Eagle and symbol of our nation when it comes to protecting our country like it was protecting it's territory.....JMHO

You are so right, the first time I was involved in some training (as a hostage) with what we called "lipstick" rounds was such a rush. Though I was not to be the target of any rounds, I was in the room when the HR team came in taking out the guards, I managed to pick one up, to the side of the head (with a helmet). Seems I was sitting by a window where there was a straight line from a window in an adjoining room and one came through (no glass in the bldg). The team guy was ticked, he had to carry me down three flights because they had to recover me dead or alive, and he didn't know why I would not cooperate when he told me to stand up and walk down until he seen my helmet. As a support guy we got many opportunities to participate in such training, but as either a hostage or guard, even when you know it is coming, it is a surprise when you feel those rounds hitting you, and it is not pleasant, which adds to the realism. I encourage taking training courses that are using paint guns, because there is no arguing if someone missed or not. But even the ones where there is no physical impact, you can get the sense of your reactions to certain conditions such as noise, light, and physical exertion.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/optics-planet-customer-service-order-backup.181605/#post-1759334 If it's backordered on OP, best I could tell you is that you 'might' get it. Eventually. Their CS is just awful. A few years ago they were pretty good about stuff but they've completely phoned it in recently.

Price wasn’t a factor. I have several RMR’s. I’ve mostly used prism scopes and more recently green instead of red lasers over the last few years. The green Holosun dots and reticles are pretty crisp. Time will tell on Holosun durability.

Teamwork at it's best

Just rejoined the discussion. Trebike makes an excellent point. I find myself toting my 938 plus 1 mag on me, plus a 1911 in my tote bag in the truck, maybe even a big 15 rounder glock; but i tend ta like the 1911 trigger. I aint sure its not time to add a riot gun or an AR for " bushwhack protection "... Im thinkin churches need ta move up to an AR of some flavor near at hand n out of sight. We are living in dangerous times. Sigh... leroy...

Did anyone ever have a carbide can? We made more noise cheaply with one of those. Use an old quart paint can that the lid would fit on. Punch a small hole in the bottom with a nail then add about a dozen or two carbide rocks. The procedure was to spit on the carbide, slap the lid on quickly and hold your finger over the hole, sit the can on it's side on the ground and hold it there with your foot then put a lit match to the hole. The acetylene created mixed with air made a right good explosion shooting the lid 20 or 30 ft. The best thing was you could do it all over again with the only cost being a new match! Pretty soon you're mouth was so dry you had to swap gunners. Strike anywhere matches were preferred. Probably why I don't hear well today.

Since Chuck won't correct you, I will. Chuck said you do you, not you do me. In other words, he is going to do what he feels is necessary for him, and has no problem with you doing whatever you feel is necessary. He wasn't being defensive.

Depending on the outcome of the election, these might be the next thing that might be hard to find.

Well, the action is with ER Shaw, having a new barrel chambered, profiled & installed. I've stripped the stock & i'm on coat 10 of 40 of London Finish. A hand rubbed traditional oil. It'll probably be close on another 8 months before everything is finished. GTs Customizing reckon about a 3 month turnaround for the bluing & color case hardening & it'll be around another 3 to have the stock checkered.

2nd that. The Rossi will sell and you can pick up another one any old day. Real Winchesters will only get harder to find no matter the condition.

I’m considering just cancelling my OP order and letting Brownells have the purchase regardless of the wait. They seem to be the superior company based on the feedback from you folks.

Friends don’t let friends get rid of lever rifles. Isn’t there something else you could get rid of?

Answer the phone and tell them you're not giving until Wayne is gone and the bylaws are amended. They'll stop calling after hearing that a couple of times.

I've been a life member of the NRA for quite a while and after reading this thread, I joined GOA. My phone has been ringing off the hook for weeks now with the caller ID showing it is the NRA. You can almost see the hand wanting money sticking out of the phone.

Upon further review I think I might have misread the intent of the OP's friend's question.... So this question to Luke9511 , WHY exactly does your friend suggest they aim for arms legs and head? I apparently missed the head part and that does kind of change the dynamic. If he's willing to have them shoot for the head then his question is probably not coming from a "lets not hurt them" place. But not knowing WHY he is suggesting this course of action makes answering your question more difficult. There is a line of thinking that goes "the bad guys are likely to be wearing armor so we skip the thorax altogether and aim for pelvis or head to start with. That line of logic and the folks that are practicing that as "plan A" are NOT coming from the "police dealing with average street crimes pool". This is from folks who are more likely to A. be using long guns as primary weapons, B. to be engaging folks that are also armed with rifles and heavier weapons working in groups and B. engaging folks often with business affiliation with freelance pharmaceutical distribution from south of the US border. Another group that practices going straight to pelvis or head is one that guards political VIP types and for whom a major threat profile is armor wearing folks. Again, not the average street cop concerns or mission profile. And frankly if your friend saw the overwhelming majority of cops shoot he'd probably change his mind and say "shoot at the biggest thing you can shoot at ...from as CLOSE to it as you can get....."

If you didn't feel you were in enough danger to shoot them in the chest then you were not in enough danger to shoot them PERIOD. Lethal force is LETHAL force and shooting someone a LITTLE is just like shooting them a lot. Once the gun comes out and goes BANG everything changes. Its not just for funsies anymore.....And what happens when you try to play Lone Ranger and shoot dude in the gun hand and the bullet ricochets off his gun and into his carotid artery? Or you shoot dude in the leg because you "don't want to hurt him" and you hit him square in the femoral artery and he bleeds out in 60 seconds? Now what? Oooops? "Sorry, my bad"...? There is a reason that virtually all police departments including the FBI dropped "shooting to wound" as a strategy a half century ago. And the only people that argue for it is people who have ZERO experience with, or education in violence. So they should probably hop on their unicorn and ride it over the rainbow and stop making ignorant suggestions about things they have no idea about.

Yep, same here.

You just don’t get that kind of cool factor from a gun on the rack at WalMart. That is why I am a fan of old guns.

So basically, from a combination of the info I've researched & received: It was built at the Oberndorf munitions plant sometime after 1898 & before 1901 where it languished until it was sent to the Suhl proof house in 1912 (common for rifles to be bulk manufactured, then batch proofed as needed) From the it was shipped to the arsenal in Erfurt, where some enterprising young nerk decided he needed it more than the military & nicked it! Sometime after the Great War, during Germany's 'reconstruction' effort, said nerk (unlikely, due to being probably incredibly dead) or someone else had it bored out to 9mm, to avoid the military caliber ban, but it somehow managed to evade being re-proofed (the equivalent nowadays of owning a suppressor without a stamp. Very slap-on-the-wristy) Time passed, it passed through the hands of one Karl or his brother Kurt Schüler, deer were probably killed & then a really keen 19 year old (probably) American GI decided to throw it in his sea bag & bring it here! God only knows who he was, or where it came in, but it ended up in Alaska, where my old mate Bob picked it up, carried it to Africa, killed at least a lion (and lord only knows what else) and then it ended up in my sticky mitts! It's so cool I can't hardly stand it!

I received some further info this morning (Kudae from the Nitro Express forums; an actual German, Mauser historian! In Germany!! ) "This rifle was proofed at the Suhl proofhouse in 1912 as the bore/land (notgroove/bullet!)diameter is marked as 7.8 mm, but the service load info is still given as 2.75 gramm smokeless rifle powder and a steel jacketed bullet. The CROWN + crown/N marks indicate proof using the 4000 atm special proof powder, according to the proof rule of July 23, 1893. The rifle was proofed only once for the 8x57 I cartridge. As it is rebored to 9x57, it lacks the mandatory reproof . So the reboring was probably done about 1920, when the „military“ 8x57 was prohibited and proofhouses were not operating due to revolutionary turmoil. As the worker’s marks under the receiver show, the action is a Gewehr 98 one of military production, smuggled out of the Erfurt arsenal. A „grey market“ action, sometimes encountered at that time. The crudely scratched name on the barrel is probably of a former owner. No reputable gunmaker would have signed his gun with such scribbling. The rifle was once mounted with claw mounts. As the scope was not „liberated“ too in 1945, the now useless bases were removed and the front base dovetail in the receiver ring filled in. "

Thanks Rod. It's not a hinged plate, just the standard sliding model. Im in deep conversation with a gent on 24hr Campfire who dated it to originally built between 1899 & 1901. The barrel is original to the action, but at some point has been rebored. The fact that it has a 'crown over N' proof, along with the plain crown, is suggesting a rebore. A fresh barrel would only have the one stamp, unless it was also rebored & that wouldn't make sense. Also, the matched 4 digit serial. There isn't any way to determine the rebore date, other than the second proof mark is post 1950 (I believe) & it would have to have been proofed before resale or return to the customer. It seems, from all this, that it was exported from Germany post 1950. The original maker's mark & factory stamp, as previously mentioned, have been removed when the dovetail was cut in the front ring. Im trying to get hold of a gent from the Nitro Express forum who seems to hold the key to understanding the random letter & number stamps under the receiver. He's in central Germany somewhere, in his late 70s & i'm guessing it's some big muck-a-muck in the Mauser collecting circles. Im going here can tell me which particular factory it came from. It doesn't really matter, at this point. I know everything I really need to (the fact that there's a 1:3 chance that it's pre-20th century just makes me giddy all over! ) but it would be nice to uncover at least the important bullet points of its history. Then imma go whack an elk with it.

This ^^^ It also appeared to me..... to be a post WWI conversion. IIRC Imperial(WWI) and Nazi(WWII) markings on the side and top of the front receiver ring were generally removed (ground off) in order to export to other european countries; and to make them legal to own in post war Germany. Lot's of records were destroyed by Allied and Russian forces post WWII and unfortunately, many pre/post WWI military and commercial Mauser records were lost. If it had been a factory commercial German Mauser; the "Mauser" logo would have been stamped on top of the front ring. Commercial variants were tolerated and generally left in "virgin" state; but not always. Because there is nothing visible stamped on the top of the ring and on the left side of the receiver; it's a safe bet you have "probable" post WWI conversion. Looking thru a copy of "The Mauser Bolt Actions ....M91-M98... A Shop Manual" By Jerry Kuhnhausen, it dose appear to be a M98. All that being said, I have one question; Is the floor plate "hinged"? If it is hinged, according to Jerry Kuhnhausen, early commercial M98 Orberndorf sporters could be had with adjustable double set triggers, and the sporters had hinged floor plates. In your first pic, it appears the floor plate is not hinged; but it is difficult to determine. Hinged, could be a commercial Orberndorf sporter; not hinged, a post war M98 sporter conversion. That's all I've got. Hope this helps Regards Rod

And if you've learned nothing else from all this, it's that Robbie spends faaaaar too much time on the internet!