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I came to the same conclusion after contemplating, as a knee jerk reaction caused a unnecessary situation. Definitely have to own my own faults, as a traffic dispute is not worth a life, but listed that detail for full disclosure and discussion.

I absolutely think you did the right thing. From your description, you were justified in using deadly force, but you didn’t because you didn’t need to. You then reported it to the Police. I don’t know how anyone could second guess that, and I wouldn’t care if they did. Good for you, you survived it without taking a life or having to go through an investigation.

Just a thought here. Had you not flipped the guy off, would the rest of the scenario have played out as it did? I'm generally a pretty calm man, but having someone say "FU" to my face, through words or gestures, really, REALLY ticks me off. Frustrations can be high in heavy traffic, and sometimes a simple thing like waving the guy on by, right of way or not, can diffuse a situation such as you describe. FAR better, in my opinion, to avoid the confrontation in the first place. A honked horn is one thing, a bullet in the chest another. Mind you, I am NOT excusing the passenger's actions. If someone tries to get into my car my reaction will be similar to yours, but what I am saying is that your gesture contributed.

I really believe that Glock made a low key genius move with its mag prices. Their OEM mags are about the cheapest of anybody. I think that those mag prices have had a bigger impact on their continued market dominance than anyone really gives them credit for.

Mark, First and foremost, thank you for the courage to share your story and for doing so with incredible transparency. Self-awareness is something a lot of people lack. Kudos to you for thinking back through the event with a critical mind and considering what you might have done differently or not at all were you forced to repeat it. Hindsight is, as they say, a bitch. I won't kick you for flipping the guy the bird because despite my greatest intentions I still reflexively issue it from time to time. I always seem to regret it the instant I find myself doing it, but so far have only regretted it due to self-awareness and not because someone escalated the situation in response. I need to do better. That said, I applaud you for keeping your wits and not putting holes in that guy. As others have said, when he entered the car you had what most experts would agree was reason to fear for your life. Shooting him then would have likely been justified, albeit it often leads to a trial in court where we hope that the jury agrees. I second the motion of obtaining carry insurance. Chances are great that you will never, ever, need it again. But it's worth having in case you do. And, really, damn those moronic automobile manufacturers that make the default setting for modern cars to unlock the doors once in park, or unlock all of them at once, or unlock them once the ignition is turned off. I guess they all live with their heads in the sand or in utopic societies. One of the first things I do with any vehicle I rent or buy is disable that garbage. I'm glad you're still among us and not having to hire a good attorney.

I'll second (or third?) the thought that flipping someone off is never going to de-escalate a situation. What exactly were you trying to accomplish by flipping them off? No one in the history of mankind has been calmed down or had their poor behavior corrected by someone flipping them off. But it has led to a lot of fights. And just because YOU (and most normal people ) might not be willing to cripple or kill someone over an insult there are "feral people " out there that absolutely are. Jail is full of people who do not "act like normal people" who have killed people over seemingly minor insults. Personally I'm a big proponent of living by the advice found in Romans 12:18 . If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. When my wife and I first started dating (20 years ago) she asked me why I seemed to never get really upset when people did dumb stuff while driving . I told her I generally stay pretty calm because ... 1. Getting angry about stupid stuff solves nothing 2. I'm "secure enough in my manhood" to not feel the need to prove anything 3. Because I have the ability and skill to kill pretty much anyone I come in contact with I prefer to avoid those situations where I might be forced to do that if at all possible. 4. I'd rather not instigate a fight with my significant other as a bystander or an accidental participant in a fight between armed people. As far as your reaction once the fight was on? From what you describe I don't have any major complaints. Having to fight while seated in the car sucks but we deal with what we are dealt. I've done it so I know what I'm talking about. In fact my particular situation is actually somewhat similar to this even if it started differently. We can argue that striking dude with the pistol can lead to it getting grabbed but I have done the same thing for real and the dude was so surprised that he just got muzzle punched that he just backed up. As to not shooting him? That's a personal choice. If you felt that you didn't NEED to shoot him that second then you probably didn't NEED to shoot him that second. There is a big difference between making the conscious decision NOT to shoot because of how he reacted and being too paralyzed with fear to shoot . Sounds like you made a conscious decision to not shoot. You are the only one who was there to make the decision and the decision seems to have been right. As they say "All's well that ends well".

Those of us who choose to carry need to be mindful of situations like MarkS's. Perhaps we need to be just a little more tolerant of the actions of others when we're armed. I'd hate to shoot anyone for something that began as trivially as a dispute over right of way. Almost all of us have made some bonehead error of judgement while driving. The older I get, the more tolerant I am when someone else does something stupid, knowing I've probably done something worse. You can bet that had MarkS pulled the trigger he would have been sued, and whether or not he'd won, the legal fees would have been significant. And the political implications for all gun-owners are considerable, too. Like Omega, I hope that passenger had a epiphany when he saw a firearm pointed at him, and perhaps next time he'll refrain from jumping out of a car to confront someone. MarkS might think hard next time about flipping off someone. The lesson I take from this situation is that small, thoughtless actions can lead to the most severe consequences. My dad used to tell me not to sweat the small stuff, and I guess that was pretty good advice.

This was not a scenario of being cool-headed. A guy blew his horn and you escalated the situation. Nothing cool-headed about that. This guy of course bears the responsibility of escalating things way out of proportion, and your warning to him may have created enough of a break in the cycle of escalation that you didn't have to shoot him. You deserve credit for that. But what if you'd broken the cycle of escalation earlier by not flipping the guy off? The fact that you're analyzing the situation now for lessons to be learned is also a plus. As always -- observe, learn, and move on. Cheers, Whisper

When the guns in restaurants issue was still in question a few years back I had a discussion with people against it. They talked about people getting mad and disagreements escalating etc. Having a gun I think makes things more apt to be let go. At least for me. I realize that getting too heated can lead to things that I don't want to happen. My wife tends to let her finger and horn get a lot of use. I don't care for it at all. She forgets how crazy some people are.

Won't matter, he will toe the line like all the lefties. Why do you think he didn't raise a stink when the Dem nomination was stolen from him?

Agreed on all accounts actually. We may disagree on the state of modern policing, but I think we are in agreement that needlessly antagonizing officers isn’t a smart idea. You’re never going to win a court battle on the side of the road.

I am sure his crew will be busy drawing up things for him to rubber stamp.

The Who comes to mind for me. "Won't Get Fooled Again" We'll be fighting in the streets With our children at our feet And the morals that they worship will be gone And the men who spurred us on Sit in judgement of all wrong They decide and the shotgun sings the song I'll tip my hat to the new constitution Take a bow for the new revolution Smile and grin at the change all around Pick up my guitar and play Just like yesterday Then I'll get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again The change, it had to come We knew it all along We were liberated from the fold, that's all And the world looks just the same And history ain't changed 'Cause the banners, they are flown in the last war I'll tip my hat to the new constitution Take a bow for the new revolution Smile and grin at the change all around Pick up my guitar and play Just like yesterday Then I'll get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again No, no! I'll move myself and my family aside If we happen to be left half alive I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky Oh I know that the hypnotized never lie Do ya? There's nothing in the streets Looks any different to me And the slogans are replaced, by the bye And a parting on the left Is now a parting on the right And the beards have all grown longer overnight I'll tip my hat to the new constitution Take a bow for the new revolution Smile and grin at the change all around Pick up my guitar and play Just like yesterday Then I'll get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again Don't get fooled again No, no! Meet the new boss Same as the old boss

I agree. While you did do everything else right, you're gesture led to the escalation. People are crazy enough as it is. The current pandemic situation is multiplying craziness ten fold. Much better to just blow off another persons minor actions than risk causing more trouble.

If posted in wrong area, please move accordingly, as I could not determine which area would be best. On Christmas Eve, at Opry Mills, a very real and tense moment occurred. As my wife and I were about to pull out of Bass Pro, a car coming up the secondary lane slammed on their horn. I had the right away, and in the holiday spirit, I wished them a one finger holiday greeting. The car then cut over to the opposite lane of traffic and cut in front of me, blocking me in. Within seconds, the passenger was out of the car, and attempted to break the driver window with his elbow. I immediately pushed the car into park, as I went to draw my sidearm. Upon putting the car in park, my Camry automatically unlocked the doors, never realized that little detail before. The man was grabbing for the door already, and when it unlocked,, he slung the door open, and lunched at me. He was immediately hit in the face with my pistol, which startled him. He took a couple of steps backward, looked me in the eyes, then reached for his waist. At that moment I screamed stop or I will shoot. He looked at me for what felt like ten seconds, then literally jumped in the other car, and they sped off. Over the past few days I have wondered what legal grounds did I have, and not the "you would be fine", but would I have had to spend years fighting this in court? Did I use good judgment not firing, or was this a case that I could have been killed myself, and should have pulled the trigger? I have trained with guns for over 30yrs, literally started as a child. I have been to class after class, and never thought I would question a decision. The outcome was fortunate as neither my wife or I were hurt. But was this a scenario of being cool headed or was this hesitation that could have gotten myself, wife, or both killed? Please take a minute to consider your response, as a week ago I thought my reaction would have been different. Secondary factors and additional details: 1. Weather was clear 2. It was around 3pm in the afternoon 3. I did not have the "adrenaline" spike, in fact it was one of the clearest moments I have ever had. 4. Pistol I had was a Beretta APX Centurion 9mm 5. I never stepped out of the car 6. Driver of the other vehicle was a woman, and I had clear sight of both, upon drawing. 7. Yes I filled police report, but they seemed to chalk it up to holiday road rage, and didn't really seem to care. This was not a fear issue, as I drew my weapon, just as I have always trained. This is a "If this ever happened again, should I have neutralized the threat" Thank you for your time.

Agree. I miss the days of new $14.99 OEM. One of the first mags I bought was a NFML Glock “hi-cap” mag for $80 during the AWB in ‘03. I never want to be stuck in that situation again, so I stock up. Harder to do at $45 a pop.

Juries surprise me with regularity.

Flipping someone off can bring into question ‘innocence’. Who knows how a DA or jury will interpret it. That is putting your future in someone else’s hands. Don’t leave that crack open. Also, we are talking about the risk of your life savings. That is why one should be very tolerant, and be very well versed in the legalities involved.

A friend got a positive test today that's quite worrisome. She's in the midst of chemo right now, so her immune system is already quite suppressed. Prayers would certainly be appreciated.

Flipping off a cop is stupid. A cop thinking he can stop a car with no probable cause is stupid. But teach your kids that it probably won’t work out as well for them as it did for that woman.

I believe you're wrong (though I am no scholar of constitutional law.) The Supreme Court has ruled that "fighting words" are NOT protected by the 1st Amendment: "Fighting words are, as first defined by the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) in Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942), words which "by their very utterance, inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality." Fighting words are a category of speech that is unprotected by the First Amendment. Further, as seen below, the scope of the fighting words doctrine has between its creation in Chaplinsky and the Supreme Court's interpretation of it today. and Texas v. Johnson (1989) In Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), the Supreme Court redefined the scope of the fighting words doctrine to mean words that are "a direct personal insult or an invitation to exchange fisticuffs." In the case, the Court held that the burning of a United States flag, which was considered symbolic speech, did not constitute fighting words.` HOWEVER: Whether or not flipping someone off constitutes "fighting words", it's coarse and unseemly and will NEVER result in conflict resolution. Civil society requires a degree of civility, doncha think? Using such a gesture is definitely a step in the wrong direction in most any situation.

You didn't have to fire your weapon, no matter how you cut it, that's a big win. You would only make a bad day worse. One must check their ego when armed...period. No flipping people off. You really do have to take more crap. When the guy got out of the car you should have simply driven off to avoid anymore conflict. When he opened your door you would have been justified in shooting, but your restraint was his and your good luck. You would not be justified in shooting just because he was banging on the window or car.....again drive off. Immediate police notification is smart anytime you pull your weapon.

Same same. Snopes just reprinted. I have avoided Snopes, they are far too liberal with their fact checking for me.

I was going to order one of these or something similar but decided at my age I'd better wait until January just to make sure

We will see come Jan 20.

First thing I do when I get a new car is adjust this door unlock setting. I prefer them to not unlock at all, when inside the Car, only the door I open from inside unlocks. I even set mine to only unlock the drivers door on first push of the fob button, not all doors, when returning to my car.

I hope you don’t eat your words.

This was my first firearm; a Remington Apache 77 (basically a green Nylon 77). My dad bought for me from K-Mart when I was 7. This is NOT a rifle, but I thought someone might like to see it anyways. It's a Tippmann M4-22 Micro Elite with a Form 1 can tucked under a 9" M-lok rail. Also has an Elftmann trigger. Needs a better optic, though. This thing is a blast to shoot! ] I just finished putting this one together; hopefully I can shoot it over the New Year's weekend. It's a Bergara B14R in a KRG Bravo chassis. Athlon Midas TAC 6-24x50. I was hoping to get into NRL22 in 2021, but, just my luck, it seems that ORSA has suspended their matches.

Don't see that there is going to be much difference from the one running it right now.

Somewhere I bet there is another driver rethinking his actions, and hope he also has seen the light of not escalating a non event into a life changing one. I recently drove back from Denver, and am heading back there tomorrow, and have encountered some very rude drivers. One passed into my lane, on purpose, within inches of my vehicle even though traffic was light. I almost honked at him but decided not to as I did not want to escalate the situation even though I was well armed. You never know what the other guy has going through his head, they may be looking for any excuse to be confrontational, it's best not to indulge them with any actions unless there is no other choice.

This is a good example of why carry insurance is important. You would have immediate access to a lawyer experienced in such instances for advice (and representation should it be needed).

Someone trying to get into your car certainly means to do you harm. I think that a reasonable person would call it a good shoot, but my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. If nothing else your incident has reminded me that I need to look into overriding the auto unlock feature on my Tundra. I hate that it does that. If I pull over for lunch, or I'm checking my phone before I go into a store, I want my doors locked, especially since my attention is not focused on my surroundings.

In the event there was another bomb. Flying debris is a hazard to aircraft.

One thing to be aware of if you reload, especially lead coated bullets. The 509 has a very short throat and unless you seat the bullets fairly deeply in the case, say 1.080" or 1.090", they simply won't chamber. And deepening the throat with a reamer is a no-go because of the nitride finish.

In my opinion if everything was exactly the way you say and no other evidence to the contrary I would suggest you would have been fine and declared self defense. You have no duty to retreat and you were in a lawful place and anyone could assume you were about to get carjacked or worse. The biggest issue is where you said this was not a fear issue, were you in fear of serious bodily injury or death? That typically is the standard for using deadly force. I definitely don't want to be put in a self defense shooting scenario now and especially in Davidson County with the current environment. Luckily it worked out well and no-one got hurt.

This discussion made me think of one of the statutes TN has about self defense. Would flipping off a person be considered provokng the other person's use of force? Is being flipped off grounds for LEGALLY inflicting serious bodily harm or death against another person? I guess what I'm asking is by giving a gesture, expletive, etc, would that person be considered the aggressor? I would like to think not but IANAL. Below is what I found. e) The threat or use of force against another is not justified: (1) If the person using force consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other individual; (2) If the person using force provoked the other individual's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless: (A) The person using force abandons the encounter or clearly communicates to the other the intent to do so; and (B) The other person nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the person;

I have FNP45, FNX9, FNS9 compact and 509 tactical. They are all great guns that have always run flawlessly. The 509T does have a break in period with 115 grain ammo unless you switch to the lighter recoil spring that comes with it. It loves the heavier weight and +p ammo. Expensive mags aren't that big of a deal since it comes with one 17 round and two 24 round mags. It's a keeper for me.

Well, I've owned a G19X. Personally just couldn't seem to like it. Perhaps it was the slightly larger size of the grip. But sold it pretty quickly. No other issue with it. Have had other Glocks, usually G19s, that I've really liked. As far as the FN pistols, like Glock, I think they are fine to excellent handguns. has taken me a while to warm up to the different grip on the FN. I really didn't like the very aggressive texture on them initially. But have warmed up to them. A few have come and gone, but have an old FNS9 that I rather like. I think you'd be fine with either one. Both are excellent pistols.

According to him it will be a busy day. Personally I think after all the inauguration festivities; he’ll go back and nap the rest of the day and not do anything. But as you say, we shall see.

In 1978 my new S&W Model 19 cost $175. That’s $726 in todays dollars, or about what a 686 cost pre-CRB.

Wasn't a lot to me. Bought 3 Colts at the same time. If you were working hard, it was a good price to pay for quality. In fact, I got those prices because I bought 3 Colts at the same time. Prices of a lot of guns today are high priced and people will complain. If it's inflation, that's fine. But it's not uncommon for someone to pay $1000-$1500 plus for something of quality. Hell, I have about $10G tied up in 2 Nighthawks... Also, supply and demand play big factors. They use to say, Obama is/was a great gun salesman. Seems all libtards qualify for that now, lol. Now with Covid, manufacturers can't keep up with weapons or ammo. Here is an article from another forum that I'll quote here courtesy: OP, Ditrina "I was thumbing through some really old magazines, and found the March 1978 Shooting Times with a cover story on the Colt Python.. Prices shown are adjusted for inflation.. http://smith-wessonforum.com/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://smith-wessonforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif The list prices from Colt were 6 inch blue $349.00 = $1,329.26 Today 6 inch nickel $369.00 = $1,405.44 Today 4 inch blue $344.00 = $1,310.22 Today 4 inch nickel $364.00 = $1,386.39 Today 2 1/2 inch blue $339.00 = $1,291.18 Today"

In today’s dollars both are in the $1,200 range. In other words you payed a lot for them back then.

I'm using the factory ramp sights and there's no front hood on this model, which is good. Even on models I have with hoods, I always remove them. It allows more light to hit that sight I have found. I've also found that putting a dab of white paint on the front sight tip makes it a lot easier to pick up against a brown background, like the side of a deer. The rifle is a Winchester Centennial 66, made in 1966, in 30-30. When I bought it from my friend Terry W (TGO member) it had never been fired, nor loaded. I told him I was going to hurt the collectability and shoot the heck out of it. He was good with that. LOL ... actually, it's the nicest shooting 30-30 I've owned. It has a 26" octagon barrel which adds some FPS and really steadies out nice for off hand shots. I'm not a collector, I'm a shooter, so anything I have I shoot. It's a shame so many of the commemorative 94s are collecting dust. They're really made to shoot! https://www.chuckhawks.com/win_centennial_66.htm

It’s an indication of what the New World Order (globalization) is going to demand. Now that the Democrats and liberal media have demonized nationalism (doing what’s best for America) this is where the new administration will be taking us.

This is in no way surprising, given the totalitarian nature of the Communist government in China. However, most of the world has no history of the "right to bear arms", and much of the world imposes restrictions, many severe, on private ownership and possession of guns. As such, many people across the world, not just those in dictatorships and under repressive governments, have little understanding of gun issues in the US, and honestly can't understand or sympathize with the existence of our second amendment, the number and prevalence of privately owned arms in the US, or our desire to maintain individual gun rights and privileges. Most see it as an anachronism not relevant to modern societies, leading to a wide gulf in how we and they view gun ownership, individual rights and the necessity of an armed citizenry ...

TSC sells it for cattle. Basically we’re are just two legged animals. Should work fine. I think...

Theres no money for the pharmaceutical lobbiests to make selling Ivermectin OR Hydroxychloraquine, hence why you will not hear about. ... But an unproven methodology and totally novel vaccine is trumpeted from every mountain top, isn't it? Remember when they were pushing remdisivr on us and saying theres no proof vitamin D works? Ahhh, good times!

Xmas Bump