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TankerHC last won the day on March 13 2014

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  1. Unfortunately at the moment I cannot. Later I will. And instead Il use the word MAJOR, vs REAL. 
  2. Since people are asking, no telling how long Spot will be since he is busy, Ill tell of some of what this person said. I will say they make no definitive statements based on photographs. Especially digital photographs since digital photographs even though they may be high quality provide distortions that would not work in forensics. (Note this isn't me saying this). Although he will say what he thinks based on a photograph, consider nothing definitive and he would not put his signature to document the weapon without having the weapon for several days to conduct testing on it.   The frame is real. It is an Model 1841 Pocket Pistol. The manufacturer is either Bacon, Hamilton or it is a Brevet Colt. Brevet Colts are not Colts. The Colt name was licensed to the manufacturer by Colt with Brevet added to show it was not a Colt. Based on what he could see in the photograph, he believes the frame would show to be a Model 1841 Bacon Pocket Pistol, not in .36 Caliber but in .31 Caliber. Either way they can see through the corrosion and tell you who the manufacturer was and again, they believe it is a Bacon.   The cylinder is machined, the frame is not. The cylinder never went with the gun. The lanyard loop is not original to the gun. It was made, most likely by some soldier. The style is very common. The troops made these particular lanyard loops so as not to lose the gun while in the saddle. They did not put these lanyard loops on reproductions, it is old, period and hand made.  The spring lever is broken. Another common feature with these relics. These guns had a tendency to end up with broken spring levers. This is an early 1840's model, in those days when the lever spring broke it cost more to get it fixed than the gun was worth. So they removed the cylinder and threw away the rest of the gun. Which is why, the cylinder is wrong for the gun. because it never went with the gun.    A couple of things "gave him pause". But he states emphatically, no statement is definitive until the gun is in his hands and he has it for 3 or 4 days to test it.    For one, if the gun in fact appears to the same as it does in the photo, he would be very surprised to find that the gun and cylinder went into the ground together or came out together. (One or the other). The cylinder never went with the gun. The corrosion is not correct for this relic between the cylinder and the frame. The cylinder has definitely not been in the ground as long as the frame, by years. he can tell you how many years if he has the gun for testing. The cylinder is post 1870. No telling how post 1870 unless he has it in his hands. But if he can look at it, he can probably tell you who manufactured it and when.    Using glass. The serial number is correct for an 1841 Bacon. However, the ridges on the numbers (Appear in the photo) to rise and fall unevenly. This would be an indicator that someone tampered with the serial number.    Both the uneven corrosion and the rise and fall in the serial numbers ridges could both be a result of digital photography. So, again, no definitive statements unless he has the gun in his hands.    They have a policy I have heard over and over. You make no definitive statements without having the relic in your hand, inspected and tested. And if you do not know, do not be embarrassed to say you do not know.  If you do not know, do not take guesses, say "I do not know". But if you do not know, and you work at the Forensic level, you find out. Because that is what you do.    The frame has value. If it turns out to be what they suspect, upwards of 600-900, with the post 1870's cylinder. If the cylinder is a reproduction, the frame still has value. Around 600. And although highly doubtful,  if it is a reproduction it is still worth 50-100 dollars. Because it would be a very early reproduction.    The only way anyone will know for sure, is if I can take the gun to him. Thats Spot's call. Because there COULD be more to this story. Just have to see.    Bottom line, based simply off of a single digital photograph. he said to tell Spot congratulations on a cool find. Real, reproduction, or whatever, collectors think finds like this are pretty cool and a gun does not have to be worth a million dollars to be able to hang it.  He said if you dont want it tested or authenticated, hang it and tell your story, thats what it's all about anyway. 
  3. This   Here's a few of the misconceptions that people glean from modern over romanticized Civil War writings and movies. "Gone with the Wind" and "Gettysburg" the Civil War was not.   From my home State, Maryland is a Liberal Unionist State. No quite, at all. All New Yorkers were Unionists. Sorry, nope. If you were from Georgia, Tennessee, or Mississippi or (Add State here), you were a Confederate and a Patriot because you wanted to secede from the grasp of a centralized Government. Nope. General Lee was the greatest Civil War Commander of the entire War. Not no, but not at all. he just happened to be the one to survive. Remember Picketts Charge! Whats that? Oh that story that Mary Pickett made up. All the great generals in the South were Southerners. Umm, no. Im pretty sure the senior commander at Vicksburg was not a Southerner and a couple of others. General Sherman was is and always will be hated in the South. Umm, no again. Im pretty sure on his retirement tour as Chief of Staff of the Army, through the South he was pretty much hailed and thanked for ending the war. Especially by ALL OF HIS FRIENDS in the South. Lee's old warhorse was a warrior, not as good as Jackson but knew we could have won. Wrong again. Stonewall Jackson was a very Pious man who never touched a drop and refused to fight on the Sabbath. Not exactly, on any of it.    The War was decided on the field of Battle....but not the end result. That was decided in the chambers of the US Supreme Court. It was the troops who just happened to make you abide by those decisions. Read Nitschke.   The troops were pious, and if they werent a Chaplain seemed to always join the unit and change their minds, that would be minus the several thousand courts martialed the several tens of thousands who couldnt stay away from the hookers and the many many many who died of Venereal Disease and cost both armies a fortune because they had to build and maintain VD Hospitals. And they were all (Mostly) brave. Yea, and many of them were freaken insane. As an example, read the contemporary out of print accounts of target practice games at Petersburg.   I could go on and on, but I do get it  Want to know the truth, study the politics, not the battles. Want to read what really happened on those fields, read the out of print contemporary accounts written by the troops who were there. Because in the modern "first person" or "first units" accounts, they leave out the truth.    I get it Will Carry.    Almost forgot, figured Id throw in the big one. "The War was about Slavery/Southern Independence/States Rights/saving the Union..etc. Yep, and 14,000 other things, feel free to just pic one and use that.. Lincoln fought to free the slaves. Ummm...NO....just ask Horace Greeley.
  4. This is going to sound like a job offer, it isnt. It also is not buying or selling something. And has nothing to do with an organization.   I am looking for 2 or 3 people, knowledgeable on the US Civil War, but no degree required. Although it would help if you knew Linear Tactics (Real linear tactics, not what you see in the movies), positioning of artillery (This also has nothing to do with re-enacting), if you know what the term "Screening" means and that Cavalry wasn't there just to take on other Cavalry, that and more, are positives. Being knowledgeable of the "period" is another real positive as is knowing some of the Supreme Court decisions that determined the final end result of the War.    But not required. A simple love of American History, Tennessee History in particular and to the point, Tennessee Civil War History, and the desire to keep it in the minds of Americans would be helpful.    It would also be helpful if you had some spare time, or were unemployed (Not that I would want you to be unemployed, but if your are and love Civil War History, I would like to speak to you), or retired.   See, sounds like a job offering. It isnt. Or a buy/sell/trade, or anything like that.    Would really be helpful if you lived within 30 or 40 miles of Chattanooga (or so) or Athens, Rhea or Meigs Counties...something like that. Again, not a requirement. Because who knows what holds down the road.   PM me if your interested in Civil War History and have some spare time, Id like t speak with you.  
  5.   Yea, thats what  I was talking about last week. Tried selling it 3 or 4 times, for a down payment on another rifle, for what I thought it was worth. Thing is if any of the people who actually looked at it would have bought it, it wouldnt have mattered to them because for me this was just a run of pure luck all the way around.    To semiauto:   I have to say, I dont think he holds that rifle highly at all. Just another Springfield Contract. When I say that it is because "I feel" that when you can afford to own General Lee's field Ledgers, Picket AND Longstreets uniforms from Gettysburg, Custers field uniform accouterments, and you buy entire museum collections, and that is just a tiny part of your collection,  what I have is "Piddly squat". But not to me. I also know, even if he didnt outright say it, that he gave me far more than that rifle was worth. And I know that rifle will eventually go with many other rifles and revolvers, he even said "And you know, and you know you will see it". And I will. I think that what he did was gave me something that was probably considered lower tier (To him) because he knows how much interest I have in this. I can tell you right now that I know someone who, for a fact, who would buy that map, and just the map. for more than the gun is worth. To put it in simple English "He did me a huge one".    In reference to Ronins comment.   There are a lot of scumbags out there, but there are far more honest people.    It all boils down to a few things.    Number one is honest people. Even the people who didnt buy it who could have bought it and jacked up the price and thought they were selling to some unsuspecting dupe, didnt do it. Honest people again who saw the rifle, saw it because they were looking, knew that I didnt know what it was and instead of buying, told me. Have to give some credit to my father who passed away last April. Im 51, he started dragging me to Battlefields and Museums 51 years ago. It never stopped. When you have a car load of kids all whining because our friends were headed to Disney and we were headed to Antietam and Yorktown and Independence Hall, and he "yelled", "Antietam is your Disney",  your going to learn something. Teacups are frivolous. (I did eventually ride the teacups by the way, when I was about 24). He knew what he was doing.If he didnt, I wouldnt know the people I know today and know what I know today. Let me tell you, I was married to a German for 18 years, Germans live with History 10 times older than the United States, every day. My wife had no interest in following Pattons Third Army through Europe. She wanted to go to the Beach, we went to the Beach, in France. Wanted to drive to Paris. Absolutely, two day stop at Verdun along the way. I did the same thing to my daughter. Her field is in one of the physical sciences, but for one of her summer internships, she went to Kings College and Sandhurst for WWII Studies, and spent several weeks there studying the Normandy invasion among other battles at those locations. She didnt get why I was dragging her around as a kid either, today she gets it.    And PURE DUMB LUCK. Simple as that. (Had to get back to the topic, sorry, started rambling).    Either way, took me a year and a half to finally get here, boring some to death I'm sure, but as I mentioned, I feel like I hit the damn lottery. I tell you, Id rather have that map than the money I could get for it. But I would not be averse to "trading up". Who knows, eventually I might get to tell a story about how I got my original Civil War Canon. 
  6. Well I debated posting, not because I sold my Springfield, but because this keeps getting better and better. I almost didnt post it but thought...Well if I dont post it to the guys who have been following, who else I am going to tell!? The wife knows, the family knows, local friends know. So here it is. For me its pretty exciting, reason being I havent ever "won" anything. I now feel like I have won the damn lottery. It just took me a year to do it. To some, no big deal, but I am not wealthy, so to me, it's a big deal. So a quick rundown of events. 1. Due to a ban on AR's at Sandy Hook, the big Northeast Outdoor show is cancelled when everyone drops out. I was scheduled to meet my cousin and spent a week here going every day. 2. Cousin calls and says "Hey, because of the cancellation, that cost the city 65 million in revenue, the Firearms owners are holding their own show, supposed to be really big". Asks me to go. 3. I drive to Pennsylvania, the show is big. Takes up the entire Toyota Center plus the three adjoining buildings, gun shortage, AR shortage, ammo shortage. Not here. 4. I wasnt going to buy anything after walking the show for the entire day. On the way out, for the second time we walk past a table with an older guy with four or five muskets. I look, no proof they are real. My cousin points this one out and says "Buy it, you want a Springfield, so buy it". I say no, twice we started walking out of the building and twice he drags me back in. Last time he says "You should buy that gun or one day your going to regret it". The man says he wants 1400, but also says the stock has been replaced and its more than likely a reproduction. I say screw that, I am not going to buy a Springfield with a reproduction stock for 1400. Old man says he really doesnt care as long as he makes something out of it, he doesnt even care if they were Longstreets guns he buys Estate sale guns and sells them to make a little money (Springfields, this is Gettysburg after all). After some back and forth and my cousin bothering the crap out of me, I get it for 1250, get in the car and instantly have buyers remorse. 5. I decided to sell it with no guarantee on the stock and note it may be a reproduction. it goes up on Gunbroker with a low reserve. I get a message from a GB member "You might want to consider taking that gun down, I dont think that is a reproduction stock, I think it is real. Tells me what to look for, everything he says is real. He tells me that he is an associate of the Head of the Dept. of Social and Civil War Studies at the University of West Virginia and sold three of these to a friend who is THE authority on Springfields. I then send photo's to an acquaintance in Adams County, Pa and Gettysburg who is an authority on everything Civil War, not just Springfields. He looks, calls me back. Its reall, appears to be 100% correct, some more preliminary details and in a week I am headed up because he can authenticate it (Or not). 6. I get sick, and sicker. My monthly trips to Adams County, Pa come to a halt. For ten months I dont go about anywhere. Realize this is permanent and just going to have to go with it. So I bring the rifle on up here, get it authenticated. Pretty happy, especially that it isnt a mismatch, its a transitional rifle. Post here, another chapter in this book I have been writing on TNGO. 7. Get up this morning and head on over. There are some documents I have been wanting since last year, still cant afford them. One is a Commanders map from the Irish Brigade. Cant afford it. Had the rifle in the trunk and thought "I am not going to shoot it, it will hang on the wall, and annual increase in valuation on these is less than 2%, wonder what this friend will give me for it". Figure not much, he owns millions of dollars worth of this stuff and has tons of Springfields of all types. Just another Springfield to him. 8. He owns a couple of Restaurants, so he wasn't in his Gallery, tells me to meet him over at one of his Restaurants at 11:30 this morning. We meet and I ask him what he would give for this rifle, or even if he were even interested. Well, he begins telling me about the rifle. "I know what you have in it. I know what it is, I did the authentication on it, and I know what I can get out of it. TO ME, it isnt worth the same thing it is to you. But I know also that you are really into the Civil War like we are (Not quite as I dont own millions of dollars worth of relics and guns). Well he could have stopped with the first offer and the gun would have been his. But, he continued. He offered me a couple of documents from General Sickles and General Longstreet. Nothing important like Longsreets Special Order to Pickett but then he says "you know those documents you have been looking at, you own one you bought yesterday. well how about I give you the entire collection, at reduced value so you have some built in equity in the event you want to start buying and selling". And he still didnt stop. Ill also throw in a rare Confederate Letter, it is from a soldier in the 22nd Alabama to his cousin in the 9th Texas. With documentation and authentication that the soldier who wrote the letter was killed the day after he wrote the letter and his cousin was killed a day before the letter was delivered, along with the letter the writers Commander sent to his mother notifying her of his death. I figured at this point I should just keep my mouth shut and wait for him to finish. He added that one I had been looking at was a really nice piece, not overly valuable ($400), the Discharge document of Corporal James A Law, 131st Ohio. And his service record. Then he says, "Only thing is I havent had time to get them framed. But frames add no value, it is the documents that hold the value. Just go to Target and buy some decent $20 frames, The value with the documents will be exactly the same. He also noted that with the rifle, any rifle, in the collectors world you see about a 2% annual increase in value as opposed to 10-15% on documents and higher on maps. But damn, no frames, going to have to turn that down. So (Actually to see if he would consider something else), I asked. In lieu of the documents, you have a pretty nice Dragoon Revolver and a '58 Remington. Asked if he would come down on either of those and how much. Yep, he could come down some. BUT, both of those revolvers came from the Day Collection, the day after the battle the Dragoon was picked up from Stuarts Headquarters and the Remington was taken from Longstreets Headquarters, the Day Collection was a small museum in their house that sat next to Lee's Headquarters where the Sunoco Station is now. They closed I think he said like 100 years ago, sold off the collection of firearms picked up all over the Battlefield. Well, overall it has been a productive last three days. Rifle authenticated. Hung out and learned a ton of Civil War related things. Made some decisions and this is what I ended up with. Ill throw in a few prices with some of the photo's. First and would be the lowest document is the Honorable Discharge of James A Law, 131st Ohio. Of course Lincoln and Stanton signatures are stamps, but turns out that unless Lincolns signature is on an important documents, to collectors it holds a low value, he was President, he signed thousands of different documents. They made signature stamps for these. Value is about $350-400 on a good day. From the Major Frank B. Jones collection. Letter from mother to Lt. Frank Jones, thanking him for sending her a letter informing her of the death of her beloved son. Another part of the Frank James collection. A Private wrote to James to tell him about his upbringing. In the letter he tells how he was raised, his stepfather beat him and he was thoroughly abused. When he was two years of age his stepfather took his and his families property worth several hundred dollars, because of this he grew up poor. Because of the way he was raised he was not a good man. He felt that the Command was dishonest when in reality it was he who was dishonest. He notes that he was put in the guardhouse for punishment for some misdemeanor that he could not recall. He notes that he was standing next to Sgt Samuel Olds on June 27th, 1864 during the assault on Kennesaw Mountain when Sgt Olds took a ball to the right thigh. It fractured his thigh but he stood, but died a few days afterwards. He saw that and it changed him. He promised Lt James that he had turned over a new leaf and that he would conduct himself with honor for the rest of the war and that he was going to conduct himself for the rest of his time in the service in a respectable manner. From the Frank James collection again. While occupying Richmond on May 9th he received a pass to go into the city. (Top) on bottom, May 27th, 1865 he was paid from January 8th, 1865 $107.40. Tell you what, it took signatures of 5 other officers to approve this Captain's pass. Aint a whole lot changed. Major (Brevet) Frank James wedding day photo (Original) to his wife Sarah taken in front of his fathers house in Burning Springs, Ohio. Letter from Private Corbin 22nd Alabama during the Battle of Atlanta to his cousin Jack in the 9th Texas. He says that he is tired of war (Only took the fronts, all the letters are front and back), he says he is ready to go home to see the girls, and that he had been sick but got well. Corbin was killed the day after he mailed the letter, his cousin Jack was killed the day before the letter arrived to his Commander. Jacks Commander wrote to his mother to let him know he was killed. I have that letter. It is being transcribed. The big one. This is part of the Major Frank James collection. It is his Battle Map. About 200 of these maps were made and issued to Union Officers. These maps were put together by Officers Surveys from the Union Army and previous maps. In the last ten years only two of these maps, authentic, have shown up in collectors circles, this is the better of the two. The reason it is better is because no one knows who owned the other one, it isnt annotated. This map through surveys has all strategic points marked through Virginia, East Tennessee, North Alabama, and Georgia. Major James carried this map through the final Valley Campaign. He marked his route throughout and placed notations at each Camp and each position he fought at and ending on January 19th, 1865 on the Potomac River just Southeast of Falls Church Virginia, before moving to occupy Richmond later. They crossed the Roanoke River on 5 May 1864 and had an engagement at Cookes Branch on the 6th. Camped and moved out, had an engagement on 8 May at Chesterfield at 8 AM. They attacked Richmond and moved through that day and engaged between the rail lines West of Hanover Courthouse on the 11th. They marched and on the 12th had an engagement at Sextons Junction and lost 14 men, They Camped and moved out and on the 14th had an engagement just south of Spotsylvania Courthouse. They marched turned north and spent the night of the 15th on the Rapidan. On the 16th they had an engagement just south of Elkton and Warrenton, on the Elk River, On the 17th Battle at Centreville. From there they moved up to Camp between Washington and Alexandria on the Potomac until January 19th, 1865. The day they left to occupy Richmond. So in less than a month in 1864, his unit marched and fought all the way from below the South on the Rappahanock to Washington. I can barely drive it that fast. (Exaggeration but you know what I mean). The value to collectors on this map. $2400-$2500. Oh, and I am getting the '58 Remington from Longstreets Headquarters that was part of the Day collection. The cash didnt quite cover a down payment. And normally they do not allow a deposit and payoff. But they make exceptions. I have 3 months to pick it up. They are putting together the complete collection package for the Frank James collection, authentications and appraisals that will be ready next Wednesday. Total return on my $1250. Around 6 times that much.
  7. Just to preface this ridiculousness, my 3rd Great Grandfather and a handful of other relatives were captured at Third Winchester and spent some time (September 19th 64 to March 15th 65) at Point Lookout Maryland POW Camp. There are 12,000 Confederates buried there, it was worse than Andersonville. So a single Maryland State Senator gets his panties in a wad and finds it offensive that St. Andrews Cross flies over the graves of 12,000 dead Confederates that the Union murdered. He isnt even from the area, probably before someone told him and whined he didnt even know the memorial was there. So he has the VA Historic Preservation Office remove the flag and replace it with the US Flag, and SCV gets involved and they go to court, the flag is changed back, then back again and finally a Federal Judge decided that the VA was in charge, it was offensive and today, the US Flag flies over the graves of 12,000 Confederate dead. Right next door (30 seconds away) the SCV and some other organizations bought the adjoining land, built a new memorial, far bigger than the one on top of the graves. Two Confederate Flags fly when you come through the gate, a giant memorial with the names and units on brass plaques right in front and an obelisk with a huge Confederate flag fly in the back. Small Confederate flags fly all over. There are a few smaller graveyards with some of the veterans in the area, but the majority are in a mass grave under the what you might call "rotting" memorial flying an US Flag. The Memorial over the graves run by the VA is a disgrace. Or it was last year and the year before. The coating on the brass plaques is coming off, you cant even read the units on some of them. There were soda cans, beer bottles, cigarette butts, trash, all over the place. The grass wasnt cut both times and to put it bluntly, it was a national disgrace. Right next door the new memorial is absolutely immaculate, and beautiful. Its a great thing, but that is not where they are.   I was a member of the SCV Camp in Hattiesburg, MS when Rick Forte headed up the fundraising and restoration of Beaviour, Jefferson Davis retirement home and the location of the Confederate Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, I did my small part to help raise funds and was there with Mr. Forte and Senator Lott and a lot of other people on the opening of the restoration and Rick led the next restoration after Katrina. I wont even go into whats going on with that, look it up and read it. Its ridiculous. And Rick Forte is 1000% in the right.   But over the last year and a half I have had the opportunity to make some good friends and get some great lessons in the Historical Forensic business (No, I am not claiming to be that, but it is darned interesting to listen and watch),, specifically to the Civil War. Union, Confederate, Civilians, relics, firearms, documents, all of it. Over the last 3 days I have spent all day, every day asking ten million questions and they are happy to give answers, and I watch. One thing I learned, actually two that disgust me. One, a Foreign company is buying up all of our historical documents. As many as they can, they are taking them overseas, the reason, they want Americans to pay for the copies. All of the money made leaves the US and goes to this Foreign Country to this company. These original documents will never be available except in copies to Americans again, and all proceeds from those historical documents will never benefit any of the Battlefield Preservation Societies, internal or external again. And take my word for it, the sales and transactions by these high end collectors do, lots of money comes from them that goes to preserve our Battlefields, and most of them buy these documents, or entire collections, and insure that Americans can still view them if they want.   Then there are these Museums all over the country. They are moving in the "Relics" direction and selling off their Firearms Collections. Why? Well sometimes they need the money, but in MOST cases it is because Americans AND Foreigners visiting these Museums deem these firearms "Offensive". The people I know find this ridiculous, I find their being offended "OFFENSIVE". I have now met people, AMERICANS, who are buying up entire Museum Collections and donating them to Museums who seem to actually "get it". Our National Museums are not selling anything off. But much of our National Heritage sits in smaller Museums, at the State and Local level. That is who is selling off their firearms collections.    I know some will not care, but I do. I REALLY do. They have been going after our Civil War Heritage for years, and not just Confederate, Union AND Confederate, looks like they are succeeding. Maybe that's why, since Obama has been elected our Revolutionary Patriots have become "Insurgents" and "terrorists". Maybe that is why our Politicians have been apologetic to the Japanese for WWII.   I am pretty damned sick of it myself, to put it bluntly. Most Americans are ignorant of their own History, they have no clue beyond the last tweet or dumb book post. And when I say THEY, we know damned right well who "THEY" are. "They" being the Socialist Left.   They wanted to destroy our Country, one surefire way is to wipe out our History, and they are doing a damned fine job of it.   Just sign me "J", the guy here who believes our Constitution says exactly what the Founders meant, and our Battlefields, relics, documents, and our dead are "Living",     These people make me want to vomit.         
  8. TankerHC

    Gas prices

      I might have to eat more beans and hot dogs but I aint drivin no Prius. 
  9. So I picked up the Authentication paperwork yesterday and the appraised value documents today. Every time I come up here I spend as much time with these people, learning what I can because I know of no one else with these kinds of credentials. Spent all day yesterday and most of today with them. Learning a lot, Ill never know what they know, but I now know what they look for is not what I and other people look for in guns, relics, documents. I also now know when there is that kind of credibility at stake, you do not make definite statements without going over a piece thoroughly, and if it cannot be authenticated, they will not put their signature on it. But when they do, they can back it up. Have been learning a lot of things, (Some weird, like how these experts can tell a fake patina on a gun without even looking at it). So this is just a copy of the authentication document. After going over it thoroughly, you can read what it says. The "Lacking" is concerning the shield. Through photographs, it was suspected of being XII Corps, after looking close up, the shield would have been more heart shaped, which is an indicator of it more likely having been a IX Corps shield. That;s a verbal, but without the shield actually being there, putting their signature on it. Not happening. But definitively, it was carved out for the shield (Whatever shield) by a soldier, because the wax was placed there after turn in to the Armory. I mentioned that someone did something to the stock. The stock is original to the gun. But the stock was sanded, The normal sanding done after turn in, but someone in the last 30 or 40 years sanded it and re-varnished over the original armory sanding. He could tell because the Armory didnt do a lot of sanding, only what was needed. Someone sanded the upper part of the stock. Normally it would have come out of the Armory with sharp edges, someone sanded the upper edges until they were no longer sharp. But it removes almost no value from the gun, because of the stock being original and the fact that on most of these Norfolks, the stocks are either considered junk, or are incorrect. Here is the document. If I ever decide to sell it, Ill show the complete document with signatures. So here is a photo everyone has already seen. Authentication document. Picked these up today to add to my collection. Will be adding more documents in the future. The story behind this one. During the Battle of Gettysburg, Brigadier General John W Geary (A Pennsylvanian) served as Division Commander under Major General Henry Slocum's XII Corps. General Geary was ordered to withdraw to another position enroute to Culps Hill but to leave one Brigade with Brigadier General George Greene commanding on Culps Hill (Kulp, correct spelling, they were Germans). The Kulps, Stauffels and Fentz familes were all related. Their farms were close and while moving through the farm lane, and onto Culps Hill Geary's Brigade destroyed the Stauffel's Farm (Stovall Farm) and as they always did, promised to pay for damages after the battle. One side note is that Geary failed to move to his position and actually moved completely off the field and away from the battle with his other two Brigades. This normally would have been a big public embarrassment, but word never got out on what he did, because fortunately he wasnt needed where they sent him anyway. Geary did eventually meet up his lone Brigade with his other two Brigades and led a major engagement on Culps Hill that night. General Geary fought at other major Battles as Division Commander, including Chattanooga. (XII Corps). Part II General John Hartranft, another Pennsylvanian. was pretty prominent. General Hartranft was awarded the Medal Of Honor for his actions at Bull Run. General Hartranft had some early embarrassment when his unit walked off the field because their enlistments expired in the opening hours of Bull Run. (1st Mananas). Hartranft also led the attack across Burnsides Bridge at Antietam. He also led the 51st Pennsylvania at Vicksburg, Knoxville and Spotsylvania, at Petersburg he stopped Lee's offensive and attack at Fort Stedman forcing Lee to evacuate Petersburg. Hartranft was assigned as Special Provost during the trial of the Lincoln assassins and conspirators. He asked for some clemency for Marry Surratt, and when none came spent time with her. Of course she was hanged. Hartranft today would be a Democrat (But not a liberal), but he was a Republican. And during RR strikes in Pennsylvania although he sympathized with the Railroad workers, he didnt believe mob rule was the way to go so he called in the militia. The militia did not perform to the Generals expectations, so he set out to modernize and train the militia into an Army. This militia became the base that led to the Pennsylvania National Guard. After the war Henry Stauffel (Correct spelling) did not get paid for his damages. Prior to the war, General Geary was appointed Territorial Governor of Kansas and after the war was elected to two terms as Governor of Pennsylvania beginning in 1867. He was also appointed Governor of the Utah Territory but refused the post. General Hartranft was was also elected Governor of Pennsylvania after Geary, served as Commander of the Pennsylvania National Guard and served as Commander of the Grand Army of the Republic. His has monuments in his honor at Vicksburg and Petersburg and his statue of him on a horse stands next to the Pennsylvania State Capital. While Hartranft was Governor, in 1871 Stauffell went to him to get paid. This document is one of the best (If not THE best) preserved of it's type. It is a certificate of claim for war damages by the State of Pennsylvania signed by both General Hartranft and General Geary. Two signatures, two Generals, Two Governors of Pennsylvania, Governor of Kansas Territory, one Recipient of the Medal Of Honor, Provost for the Lincoln trial, Organizer and Commander of the Pennsylvania National Guard, a General who stopped Lee's final advance at Petersburg. For others. General Geary was a Mason at Sight. He held to the tenets during the War with Mexico and was a member of Lodge 255 which is right up the road from where I am sitting right now. He is also the Brother who refused to put the War for the Union side against Freemasonry and posted Federal Troops to protect the Soloman Lodge during the Battle for Savannah. They were going to reprimand him for that, but he did not care. He refused to drop the tenets and principles because he believed that the tenets and principles of Freemasonry had relieved the misery of many parts of the Country during the War regardless of what side you were on. To me at least that makes this document that much more important. You might have to be a CW "buff" to care but for those who are, this is a pretty good document. This next one I "got" because I was looking for a Confederate related document. Confederate "Authentic" documents and anything else authenticated Confederate is hard to come by. But as 2 real document experts told me today, it doesn't get any more Confederate than this. One of these people owns 1800 Civil War related documents and all authentic and with provenance. This is one of them. Here is the story. Lt. Frank B. James (Brevet Major), (Union) 52nd Ohio Volunteers fought through many major campaigns. During the Chattanooga-Ringold Campaign, just outside Ringold the 52nd Ohio ran into the 33rd Alabama. After the fighting was over that day he walked over to a dead Confederate Alabama soldier and took this document out of his knapsack. This is a handwritten songsheet from that dead Confederate of the Bonnie Blue Flag. It has provenance, is documented with eyewitnesses, and in the collecting arena is considered "Fine" as an acquisition. After the war a book was written about the fighting at the Dead Angle at the Kennesaw Mountain Battle, a quote was taken from Major James. That is the quote below the document. Tomorrow before I leave here I will be making (Trying to make) a deal on the rest of everything Major James brought back. Seems he was also a document collector, off of dead Confederate Soldiers he fought against. I think IIRC there are about a dozen documents, photographs including his wedding photograph and his first house, but the big one is his battle map outlining all of his engagements and tracing his entire service on the map through every campaign.
  10. Since it is Spots find, I figured I would let him tell you what I passed on to him, but as busy as he is, it might be a while. Guess Ill wait and see what he says, dont want to jump in.
  11. Well I had him take a look at the photo's.   This I can say, but this is preliminary because unless he has it in his hands I wouldn't expect this person to commit, which is also why I wont say who he is unless someone wants their artifact authenticated, not my place to say. Let him say on paper.   I can tell you this.   Not fake (cannot say with 100% unless I were to take it to him. Not a Colt. Not a Navy Not an ,51 or .58 or any of the suggestions on here. Not a .36 or .44 The cylinder did not go with the gun when it was manufactured.   If Spot wants to know, Ill tell him and he can say. But everyones guesses were off the mark. Including mine.    If authenticated I can also tell you this. For what its worth, you could buy a new Windham AR. 
  12. TankerHC

    Gas prices

    Paid $3.96.9 for regular yesterday.  Thats still 16 cents over average price up here. Pretty "cheap" considering I could drive an hour and a half further North and pay nearly $5 a gallon, California prices on the East Coast.   When I left TN Thursday, I watched prices climb 65 cents by the time I crossed the MD line from Virginia Thursday afternoon.    I do think this is about 16 cents higher than everywhere else, since this is Adams County, where everything costs more.
  13.     Thats it, I can use just that photo for him to say its real or repro and what it is Navy of course but the cylinder isnt right, but the sides, top, bottom pics would be a lot better if anyone might talk to him and ask if he might want it looked at. Im also showing him a COnfederate Navy buckle and a couple of other things. Anyone has a questionable gun or artifact (Cant carry 100 in but can do some) they might want him to look at, no authentication without it in his hands (I had to leave the rifle with him for 4 days), but he knows his stuff and can give some info from photo's. 
  14. I cant recall who it was and I had the one photo. I also don't know if it was concluded to be a reproduction, BUT...   I am up here now, first time I could make it in the last 6 or 7 months (I was supposed to bring up the photo or gun). I can have the NPS guy take a look at the photo's. I will be meeting with him tomorrow morning. The reason(s) you may want him to look at it:   Forget the serial numbers, even companies making repro's matched Ser. No's on some guns.   Even if an expert said its a fake, I had ten experts tell me mine was a fake, I now have in my possession paperwork proving it is not only 100% original, but graded fine mechanically and an outstanding example of a scarce Norfolk Contracted Springfield Rifle.   Revolvers in far worse shape than yours, with no provenance are going here for $950-$1500. Saw them myself today and spoke to the people who deal in them. The question on a relic  like that isnt if its a relic that someone carried etc..(It will never fire again anyway), the question is "Is it real, is it correct and what "period".   So if your interested in me carrying photo's t0 see what he says, post or PM me some, need top, both sides, bottom, closeup of trigger guard area and any visible markings, if there are any.        
  15. Update:   I had to take off an come to MD and Pa on some business until Tuesday. Brought the Rifle and took it to the National Park Service Guy for authentication. (Authenticates Civil War relics for the NPS, including everything you see at Gettysburg Museum and his background is in Forensics, plus he personally owns about 30 million dollars in relics).   Upon rudimentary examination today at 1 PM, the rifle appears to be 100% original. He pulled out jewelers lenses and started going over the rifle and I was sort of concerned that he was going to find this and that wrong with it. Instead piece by piece he told me how it was correct, including the stock and also including the rod, which is sort of unusual. Its not only an 62 Norfolk Contract, it is a "Transitional" rifle. meaning the lock and plate is original to the gun but was manufactured late in 62 and mated up to a 63 barrel. And this is correct, not a pieced together gun (Which is why it is called transitional). Everything he was doing was explained as he was doing it. The suggestion that it was a XXII Corps gun came from me sending him photographs of the cutout behind the lock plate on top of the stock. On closer examination he seems to be convinced that was incorrect, not XXII Corps but IX Corps due to whatever it is he was looking at.    Yes, you find these guns for $1000-$2000 and a few at even $5000 or so. WHat you wont find is one authenticated like this, by the people who do not accept "Maybe's" but require absolute authenticity because what they deal in costs hundreds of thousands of dollars (Ill post a few photo's of a couple of items he owns and some of the things he deals in) and are authenticated down to Corps level. Even "bring backs" are suspect because they often come with photo's but there were plenty of pickups and not a whole lot with confirmed markings, plus these guns had no seriel numbers.    The gun is now in their possession and they are going in detail over every last piece for authenticity, including every last screw. He will be calling me once it is complete. They take their own photographs.   Im still slightly concerned because I dont know how this is going to turn out. For one thing the stock is original to the gun but I know there is a minor issue with it that will be spelled out in the authentication documentation. To put it bluntly, it's what someone with no knowledge does when they get hold of a relic like this.    Im just glad everyone who looked at it (That I tried to sell it to for little to nothing, relatively NOW speaking) were expert enough to tell me why it was a fake.   More coming as soon as documentation and photo's are in my possession.


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