DaveTN

I have been there, but never bought anything from them; what did they do you didn’t like? I have bought about 10 firearms in last couple of years and the Franklin Gun Shop and Mike’s Saddle Shop was the only two that acted like they wanted my business. Everywhere else I have been they either acted like they could care less or made me laugh when they gave me a price. There must be something I am missing because I think opening a gun store/range would be a great opportunity in this area.

1. A Pancake is generally an OWB holster not an IWB. 2. Depends on your personal preference and experience. I wouldn’t carry without a thumb break. But it is for the same reason I want a magazine disconnect; I have seen good guys and bad guys of all experience levels lose control of a weapon on the street.

Only what I have read. They are probably the most highly rated IWB holster made. But I don’t know if it’s because they are that good or if it’s because they are twice the price of everything else and it takes a few months to get one. I emailed them about a VM2 with a thumb break, but the price was just silly.

Don’t blame the cops blame your legislators. It took a written opinion (No. 05-154) from the Tennessee Attorney general on 10-11-2005 to clarify the open carry issue.

And my point is that whether or not it is legal will be determined by a Judge later; not on the street. You have absolutely no right to refuse a Police Officers order to surrender your weapon; but he has every right to order you to do so. Refusal to do so can not end well. I don’t know what you are suggesting the man in the case you described should have done. It doesn’t sound to me like he had much of a chance. I don’t mean to make anyone mad but are these very basic things not covered in carry classes in this state? What do you guys do in these classes…. sleep?

Things happen fast. If a Police Officer wants you disarmed he will not hold a probable cause hearing. Don’t do something stupid that could destroy your future or even take your life. I didn’t read the linked threads, but to answer the originally question… No, it is not legal to resist a civil rights violation. Because until a Judge or Jury rules; there is no civil rights violation. It’s just resisting arrest and you will go to jail.

Maybe I’m reading the law wrong, but I disagree. This legislation provides for immunity from civil liability not civil prosecution; if.. “ the court finds that the person's use of force was justified.” If you are charged criminally and found not guilty; a civil court Judge might dismiss a civil suit. But if you aren’t charged criminally (which most people won’t be in a good shooting) I’m guessing the bad guy or his family can still sue you. You will have to hire a lawyer and defend yourself. As I said earlier and also about the Florida legislation this is far short of “You can’t be sued” legislation. This merely offers you an opportunity to get a judgment to recover your costs. IMHO this is a step in the right direction but it is surely nothing to get excited about. Maybe someone can get John Harris to clarify this.

The opinions of only three people matter here… the Police Officer that will respond if a call is made concerning your situation, the prosecutor for your county if you are arrested, and your boss (if you like your job). If you are a citizen transporting a firearm it is your duty to be clear on what is legal. If you are a carry permit holder there is no excuse for you not being crystal clear on where your permit allows you to leave or posses a firearm. You need to ask. If I was unclear on this I would go to the HQ of the department that would send the responding Officers and ask a Command Officer. As a former Police Officer I can assure you “I did not know that†is not a good defense. I can also assure you what will fly in one county may get you thrown in jail in another county.

In my opinion this legislation does not mean that you can’t be sued. It only has provisions for you to recover costs if the court so finds. If you shoot a bad guy and the States Attorney feels the shooting was justified and decides not to charge you criminally; I don’t think that is a ruling that the shooting was justified. The dirt bags family can sue you and you will have to pay for your defense in civil court. If the civil court rules that you were justified they can order the person bringing the suit to pay your fees and costs. Anyone ever tried to collect a civil judgment from a dirt bag? Just like the Florida law; this stops short of doing the right thing. This should be black or white. If you are not charged criminally, you should not be able to be charged civilly for shooting a person that is committing a crime against you. As I read this; that is not the case.

Did the prior law put their stamp of approval on you carrying illegally if the shooting was justified? I don’t know; my common sense tells me that probably isn’t the case. The unlawful activity language is used in most deadly force laws I have seen. It keeps the criminal from claiming any rights or protection. You can’t bog down good legislation because someone committing a criminal act my get in the way. As responsible gun owners or carry permit holders we have a responsibility to follow the letter of the law; there are way to many people waiting for mistakes to be made so they can use them to get rid of or further limit carry laws. If the prosecutor wants to charge you for committing a crime that you knowingly committed; that is not only his privilege but his responsibility. If you are knowingly violating your carry privilege by carrying in a restaurant that serves liquor; you have made the decision that carrying in that situation is more important to you than your carry permit. Regardless of what we think the anti-gun people will put pressure on the Prosecutor to charge you and have your permit revoked.

I had one for a 1911 many years ago. Unless you use it on a Glock you probably won’t shoot yourself but you have zero gun retention. With the things I have seen, I won’t even buy holsters that don’t have a thumb break.

Since you don’t know what it is I’m assuming by “really good price†you mean it’s a $100 rifle? If it is an Arisaka Type 99 rechambered from 7.7mm to 30-06; that is not a great deal. If it is a .308 Weatherby Vanguard (Howa of Japan) it’s not a bad deal; it’s $375 new.

I agree, that’s what I was thinking as I read your post. Check out the M&P. It comes in 9mm, .40 S&W, or .357 Sig.

Another vote for leather. I don't own a firearm that I would put in Kydex.

I use these....

Contact Mike Patterson at The Saddle Shop in College Grove. http://www.saddleshop.bizland.com/ If you email him a link he will let you know what the total would be picked up at his place. His email is mpatter2@bellsouth.net

I agree….. Absolutely people should research what they are going top carry. They should research what people have to say, who they are, and why they are saying what they are saying. And I am absolutely amazed at some of the statements in this thread. But they won’t cost me my life, and hopefully the forum members will do their research before it costs them their life or the life of a family member.

I hope to be buying an AR soon. I am absolutely sure that I want 7.62. (AR-10) What do you guys have? What’s the story on Bushmaster pulling the 7.62 line? Looks like my choices are DPMS, Rock River, and ArmaLite. Any others? I have absolutely no interest in building my own at this time. A guy I work with is going to buy one also. He kind of a tight wad so I’m sure he’ll be getting a .223. But he asked me about the difference in cost for ammo. Are there any local sources for bulk (1000 rounds) of .308 or .223 range ammo? I read something about Wal-Mart carrying .223 in WWB; what does that cost? Do they make .308 in WWB? I get Lake City 30-06 pretty cheap but they don’t carry .223 or .308. On a totally different subject… does anyone know of a good local source for .30 carbine ammo?

Thanks guys. And for those of you that want Garand’s… CMP is saying they will have more this year, rumor is September. You will never buy them for less than you will get them for from CMP. When they are no longer available from CMP the price will really shoot up.

I don’t think I would be surprised; I was a Police Officer. I believed in the entire Constitution; I didn’t pick and choose the parts that I agreed with. I also swore a duty to uphold the laws of my state; again not just the ones I agreed with. A cop that does that is a hypocrite. If a Police Officer cannot in good faith enforce the laws that he has sworn to uphold then he needs to work towards getting those laws changed or he needs to get out. I got out.

I am a Toolmaker and have worked in either the machine trades or law enforcement all my life. As I get closer to retirement (still a long way off) I have been thinking about doing custom gun work at home. The drawback is an FFL. If shipments have to go through a local FFL; it becomes price prohibitive in most cases. It is my understanding that the ATF has cracked down on FFL holders and that they have to be actively selling firearms to keep their licenses. I wonder how gun smiths that just do custom work and don’t sell firearms get around that? It is also my understanding that prior to issuing a license the ATF now checks with your city to see if the city requires some special zoning to have a business in your home. I have no idea if that is true or not I just remember reading it somewhere. Does anyone know if that is the case with Murfreesboro? TIA, Dave

Sounds like you had a great time. Am I understanding this correctly; you think you can shoot better with your M&P than with your SW1911?

Just taking a WAG I think it will be a cult round like the 10mm; I don’t think it will ever be mainstream.

I have no idea what the law is but why would carry laws even pertain to cops; on or off duty? I’m sure they would say that…. Where I was cop we had more training in criminal law than attorneys; unless the Attorney’s specialty was criminal law. If you want to know if you will be arrested for something the very best person you can ask is the person that will be responding to the call; that’s the cops. If you want to know if you will be charged and convicted, ask a lawyer in your States Attorneys Office. Law is not black and white. Especially when you start talking about law like the use of deadly force. Different Counties will charge crimes differently. Different Judges will interpret the law differently. Knowing what the Prosecutors and the Judges will do is one of the things that separates the high dollar attorneys from the bottom feeders. When you guys go to a carry class who answers your questions about the use of deadly force? Do they have someone from the States Attorneys office there or is it the instructor?

Went down to CMP in Alabama yesterday and picked up my M1 Carbine. Made by General Motors (Inland) January 1944.