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Everything posted by JayC

  1. Yeah the only place we've ever seen it as the sole charge is trying to carry into the secure area of an airport.
  2. Yeah this changed 2+ years ago, all parks are carry good zones, city, county, state or national.
  3. Monkey has it all correct except this part right here. All public parks are open to HCP holders, and can not be legally posted in TN. There is currently a lawsuit working it's way through the court system on whether certain 'Entertainment venues' are covered by this section of law. But, what you'd normally call a city park is clearly legal to carry in. TN gun/carry laws are 'ok', but a hell of a lot better than IL. Want to buy an AR-15 with a 30 round mag and a Glock pistol with a 17 round mag, go down to the local gun store with your TN drivers license and you'll walk out the door with the guns 30-45 minutes later.
  4. But the evidence doesn't back up your personal experience, somehow when you place average citizen X in a self defense shooting situation, they perform as well or better than the police officer who have 60x to 1000x more formal training. Studies advocating for more law enforcement training using scientific methods show that the differences between experience levels have virtually no impact on shooting ability between Expert, Intermediate and Novice shooters is almost the same at the 3-15 ft engagement distances, only do you see significant difference when you go beyond 21 ft, which as we all know very few self defense shootings take place that far out. As for the safety argument, that somehow more range time decrease ND's and overall safely handling firearms, show me the research because I for sure can't find it. The information I can find on the subject seems to suggest that unintentional firearm fatalities are down across the board, yet over the last 20 years firearms ownership and carry has exploded and in many states there is no required 'safety course' to carry a firearm (the majority of states today). Clearly some safety programs are working and are effective, Eddie the Eagle and similar education by parents is having an impact of children under the age of 10. But that is a far cry from saying that mandatory training for law abiding adults should be a requirement to carry a firearm for protection. Cruel, the fact remains that ranges and firearms instructors gave a VESTED interest in keep the status quo... It doesn't mean they're acting on that vested interest, but it sure seems odd they're the one's who keep arguing for the same or more training yet can't cite a single research paper that proves their point, that a simple video, or hand out with the rules of gun safety doesn't provide nearly the same impact as 8 hours of wasting your time trying not to fall asleep.
  5. We're just going to have to agree to disagree... The reality is very few self defense uses of a firearm by a citizen results in these bad outcomes you describe. We don't see news reports from other states in our region who don't have training requirements for law abiding citizens to carry firearms for personal protection. I'd suggest reading this paper on the subject, it paints a very stark picture how little training buys you on the range - http://www.forcescience.org/articles/naiveshooter.pdf And we know how bad the results drop in real world shootings, NYPD scoring a 18% hit rate in real life shootings.
  6. Agreed, corporate welfare for ranges, and firearms instructors.
  7. We're talking about a proposed law that would allow law abiding citizens to carry without jumping through any hops, and you complain that lack of training is a reason why this proposed law isn't a good thing. I'm pointing out that just isn't true. 2 years ago we allowed handgun carry in a vehicle by any law abiding citizen over 18, can you cite a single example of a questionable shooting because of that change in the law? What makes you think this change would be any different. Of course if somebody asks me about purchasing a firearm for self defense, then first thing I explain is training is key, but the fact is the amount of training MOST people need to protect themselves from bad guys is keep your meat hook off the trigger until you want it to go bang, and the death comes out this end. That is the GREAT equalizer of firearms, very little training, and you're good to go for most common self defense situations. Heaven forbid any of us are forced to use our pistol for self defense someday, but the reality is most of the time, there is going to be little question who is trying to do you harm, and the distance to the target is going to be short enough that aim is likely not going to matter so much as point shooting. Training and education are really for those 'extreme' cases that we as otherwise law abiding citizens are rarely going to come into contact with. Training and education is important, get as much of both as you can afford in time and money, but don't let a lack of either of those things keep you from carrying a firearm to protect yourself and the one's you love whenever you can legally.
  8. This statement just doesn't meet up with the FACTS. While I agree training is a good thing, the fact is that every state except for 1 (GA) that touches TN allows unlicensed carry with no training, some of the states that touch TN allowed licensed carry with no serious training. Where are the incidents of blood running in the streets in these other states, our population is not significantly different from those states, so why do you think it would be different here. I'll leave you with one other little fact that most people don't know, police officers are 5+ times more likely to kill an innocent person in a self defense shooting than your average citizen. Police Officers receive significant training both in law and in firearms, yet their ability to hit bad guys during a justified shooting is much lower than criminals and the general population. Training isn't everything, and shouldn't be a government requirement to protect yourself, full stop.
  9. As much as I think this is a bad idea... it would solve a lot of problems, including loosing our gold star HCP due to the recently changed law.
  10. They may fight it, but there were court cases over other similar nation wide licensing laws, and in all cases SCOTUS deferred to the Federal law. I'm not a huge fan of a national carry law, but it's almost certainly to be ruled constitutional by SCOTUS.
  11. I'm not aware of anybody who seriously think a person who had been judged mentally incompetent should not have their rights restricted, included the right to own a firearm. But that is a VERY small % of the population and frankly would be a rounding error compared to the violent crime we see on a daily basis. But if you're legally allowed to own a firearm you should be allowed to carry it with no further restrictions.
  12. The fact remains, our founding fathers believed and many of us still believe today that we're endowed with inalienable rights, they saw those rights coming from our Creator, while some people who don't believe in God see them coming from our humanity. It doesn't matter which side of that fence you come from, we should all believe in those inalienable rights. JAB, many of us were lost in the view given to us by society since our birth, we'd talk about freedom, and rights in school, and then be conditioned to believe that those rights can have conditions set upon them our 'parent' the government. The right to protect yourself and your loved ones without interference from the majority is as important as the right to believe and freely practice your religion without interference of the majority. Any infringement what so ever on those rights are at best immoral and tyranny. If as adults we can't see the problems around us and have ideals that should not be compromised under any condition them how does the government function if we're not moral men and women? It doesn't and we've seen it go faster and faster down hill for the last 150 years. The reality is every immoral rule and law imposed by the government ends with an implied threat, if you don't follow this law men will show up at your house and use whatever force is needed including death to make you do it. JAB, you asked the question about the majority out and out banning firearms because we allow nut cases to carry those firearms... I'd point out AZ passed it's constitutional carry after a nut job attacked a sitting congresswoman killing many innocent people. The reality is it's immoral to limit our freedoms because of what somebody else might do. I think your argument is a red-herring, when we lax stupid gun laws blood doesn't run in the street, crime goes down and people feel empowered. We see this time and time again both here in TN and in other states around us. Finally, if the government bans firearms, then I personally will feel the social contract is fully null and void. I will remove my consent to be governed by said government, and return to a 'state of nature' such as described by Thomas Hobbes, and John Locke.
  13. TN is in the minority, 30 states have some form of unlicensed carry. While only a handful have full on Constitutional Carry, which just means concealed carry without a license, many states have no laws against open carry by unlicensed law abiding citizens. TN which should set an example isn't and we should push harder to fix that.
  14. This is because the TFA violated it's own beliefs and started to push for HCP holders to be a protected employment class... They burned a LOT of bridges in the process, and pissed off a lot of supporters that are business owners and property owners like myself. They need to refocus their efforts on removing gun free zones from the public sphere, and tell their members if their current boss doesn't care enough about their safety to allow them to carry a firearm, they probably should go find a new employer.
  15. The thing the NRA does well is informing gun owners about proposed legislation it doesn't agree with and getting us to call in droves... That along with the fact a lot of us are single issue voters, if you're anti-gun you're not ever going to get my vote. The NRA would be just as effective in blocking bad legislation today if they said NO to any new gun law that takes rights away... for example after Sandy Hook. I had hoped they had learned a lesson from the mess they almost created, but here we go again with NRA language to back removing a constitutional right with no due process of law before the fact.
  16. The problem with the NRA is a simple one... They tend to negotiate our rights away, instead of taking a hard line against any new gun laws, and push for repealing gun laws on the books. I'm a double lifetime member, my grandfather bought me a lifetime membership as a baby, and I purchased another life time membership as an adult. But lets look at some greatest hits: 1. They helped craft the FOPA of 1984 which included the Hughes Amendment, when offered a veto they turned the veto down. They promised to remove the Hughes Amendment in following years, and have made no attempts to. 2. The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, the helped craft the language of that law, instead of fighting it tooth and nail they compromised. 3. Heller v Washington DC, early on in the process the NRA tried to get the lawsuit dismissed because they didn't feel it was the 'right time' to challenge the no ownership laws in DC. 4. After Sandy Hook the NRA started to work with Senators on a new Assault Weapons Ban, only after this was leaked by Gun Owners of America did they have a 'change' of heart and stand firm against any new firearms legislation. 5. After the terrorist shootings in CA last year, the NRA approved language for a bill which would have allowed the justice department to ban a person on the no fly list from purchasing a gun. There are 400,000+ people on the no fly list. Including Ted Kennedy, Steve Hayes (Fox New contributor). It took Steve Hayes 14 months to get himself off that list, and he's a well connected nationally know journalist. Those are just some of the 'hits' on the NRA. Every time they call seeking a donation, I send money to Gun Owners of America, because they don't mess around and compromise.
  17. http://www.opencarry.org/maps/map-open-carry-of-a-properly-holstered-loaded-handgun/ There are some restrictions in place, but even with the permit system we still have restrictions in place in TN.
  18. Then we keep the permit system for those who want to carry nationally, and allow unlicensed carry for those who don't. Problem solved.
  19. Where in the TN state constitution did we cede power to regulate travel or access to the roadways to the state government? One could make an argument that freedom of travel is a God given right, and the state has no real business restricting it either.
  20. 30 states allow for unlicensed carry, none of those states require training to carry. So, most states don't require a permit, and most don't require training. TN is in the minority compared to other states.
  21. You make a very valid argument that we should also do away with drivers licenses as well Or just take the test online and receive you drivers license in the mail after paying $10. It's nothing but make work for government employees, and does little to protect society.
  22. I'll take you up on that challenge, and it's a very simple to show that by requiring people to go through a permit class that is largely a complete waste of time, it harms society more than not having the permit system at all. What do I mean by the permit system largely being a complete waste of time, you run permit classes, what is your failure rate? State wide it's well under 1%, my guess is that virtually everybody passes your HCP classes, you can probably talk about a couple of examples where somebody failed, but it's rare. So clearly the permit system doesn't prevent a nearly blind idiot from passing, so what does it do? It acts as a barrier to keep otherwise law abiding citizens from getting a permit, so lets talk about some examples... The poor or lower income middle class. The permit system is expensive and very time consuming, you have to take 1 day from work, pay for the class, and pay for ammo, lets say that costs somebody at least $175 total (including lost income). Then they have to go apply for the permit, taking half a day off of work at some locations, $150. Finally, they have to go do the fingerprints, which takes another 2 hours, ~$20 - BTW ever wonder how many people get denied because of their fingerprints, 0 in the 20 years we've had the permitting system. Total cost around $350. Now not only do you have a cost barrier, you have a time barrier, and a waiting period of 30-90 days. So if you're a female with a stalker, or a businessman who was just threatened, or an abused spouse, you have to wait at least a month after going through all of that mess to carry a gun. At the end of the day, the HCP process costs lives of otherwise law abiding citizens, who don't have the time or money to jump through hoops to get the permit, or have a limited but immediate need to carry and the permitting process takes to long. That costs society lives, a lot more lives than the current HCP system saves. So lets underscore a reason why we can infer all of this to be true, two years ago we allows all law abiding citizens to carry loaded firearms in their vehicle, and have seen no uptick in crime, or ND's, there is no running of blood in the streets, nothing bad has happened from passing that law, why should we believe allowing unlicensed carry would be any different. Every time we've talked about removing stupid restrictions on the current system people including people inside the '2nd amendment' community say bad things will happen, yet they never do. Again, EVERY state that touches TN allows unlicensed carry except for GA, they don't seem to be having the problems you describe, why should we believe TN would be any different? And if we do need a permit system we should streamline the process, the shooting part of the test is a complete waste of time, the fingerprints in 20 years have never been used deny a permit, get rid of both of them. Have the state setup a website that shows the videos follow by a simple true/false test, pay by credit card $55 for the permit, and you get it in the mail within 2 weeks. You drastically remove the barriers of obtaining a permit, while providing all of the information that you need to legally carry in TN. I wouldn't support it because it's just a make work project for TDOS, but it would be 1000x better than the system we have today. And honestly I don't think we should do away with the gold standard permit system we have today, because it allows us to carry in other states.
  23. Many of us aren't big fans of the Negotiating Rights Away... They tend to support stupid legislation that is designed to line the pockets of instructors and ranges, instead of removing unconstitutional laws altogether. Training is great, I think more people should get more firearms training, but I don't think the government should make it a requirement under any circumstance. The data just doesn't back up your argument, states that have passed CC haven't seen a rising in crime, a rise in ND's, nor a rise in children related firearms deaths. You do realize that every state that touches TN except for 1 (GA) allows every law abiding citizen to carry a firearm without a permit, with no training required what so ever, and blood isn't running in the streets? I know I'm giving you a hard time about coming from NY state, and I realize that lots of areas of NY state are rural and comparability more conservative that NYC, but I think you'll find with few exceptions that a republican in NY is a very liberal democrat here in TN. I know you can't help yourself, you've spent decades behind enemy lines, but freedom means something down here, and many of us think government at it's best is a necessary evil, and we're far from 'best' even here in TN.
  24. Again more liberal thinking, the saving of 1 life, nor 10,000 lives is a valid reason to infringe on my God given rights. Just because it *might* save a life somewhere down the line does not justify the infringement. And here is a hint, those druggie's and low life's already have guns, we see that every week in the arrest stats here in TN, all the HCP system is doing is preventing hard working low to medium income people from carrying a firearm to protect themselves. BTW, we just recently added unlicensed carry in your car, there has been no uptick in crime, or homicides in this state, extending this right to every otherwise law abiding citizen poses virtually no risk to the public.


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