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Dolomite_supafly

I hope this happens

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I have been saying those in need should be sent boxes of food instead of given free money. I believe it would benefit a lot of people while making it harder for those who cheat the system to continue to cheat the system. It would also ensure that those who are getting help would eat good food instead of junk food or food obviously too expensive for those getting assistance.

For those who may not be aware, in Tennessee it is against the rules for a business to ask for ID to verify the user of an EBT card is the person who is issued that card. Any vendor that does as for ID can risk loosing the ability to take EBT, which is a LOT of money for some vendors. I have seen it first hand because my brother gets EBT benefits and then sells to pay for drugs. I talk to the cashiers all the time about it and they say they know the people getting issued is not the ones using it but they cannot do anything about it. Had one lady who would use her EBT card to buy packs of expensive tuna. She would brag about that fact they were for her cats and that she would continue to buy the tuna until cat food was covered by her EBT card. I see people using EBT cards to buy food that most people cannot afford to eat on a regular basis yet our tax dollars are used to pay for a lavish lifestyle for those who say they cannot afford to eat.

If they would require businesses to verify the user is the one who was issued the card it would cut down on a significant amount of fraud. Hell, my ID is checked when I use MY credit card so why can't those who use my tax money be bothered to do the same. They cite privacy reasons and that it might embarrass those who are using EBT cards but if you are truly in need of EBT you would be grateful instead of embarrassed.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-wants-replace-food-stamps-114015814.html

Quote

The Trump administration wants to scrap food stamps for low-income Americans and replace them with boxes of non-perishable food items selected by the government, Politico reported Monday.

The proposal was touted by White House budget director Mick Mulvaney and included in the White House fiscal budget, released Monday. According to the administration, it could save the federal government $129 billion over the next decade.

Mulvaney compared the measure to start-up meal delivery company Blue Apron. 

President Donald Trump pauses while speaking to reporters in the Oval Office at the White House in Washington, D.C., on February 9. Jonathan Ernst/Reuters   

Under the plan, the amount of money low income families receive as part of the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, also known as food stamps, would be slashed, and they would receive a product dubbed “America’s Harvest Box” by the Department of Agriculture.  

That box would include staples like shelf-stable milk, peanut butter, canned fruits and meats, and cereal.

Critics likened the plan to wartime rationing, and questioned how the boxes would be delivered to remote rural communities and would accommodate those with special dietary requirements, including allergies. 

The Food Research and Action Center, a prominent non-profit group, told Politico the harvest box idea would be “costly, inefficient, stigmatizing, and prone to failure.”

 

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4 minutes ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

Critics likened the plan to wartime rationing, and questioned how the boxes would be delivered to remote rural communities and would accommodate those with special dietary requirements, including allergies. 

The Food Research and Action Center, a prominent non-profit group, told Politico the harvest box idea would be “costly, inefficient, stigmatizing, and prone to failure.”

Already people want to fail instead of presenting solutions. As for that last line, Is it not now the same? However I would add that it is also wasteful, bloated, and abused/cheated. To a level that means it is better to scrap the program and do something new.

The real problem lies in Washington to begin with. Stop feeding the bears as it makes them dependent on the handouts! Not just in this program but all of what the idiots that have been elected are doing every day! I should not refer to them as idiots though as they must be fairly smart to keep hosing the people and getting reelected all of the time to continue it.

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Some things should be common sense; but they aren’t.

I find it laughable that being able to ask for ID when someone is using food stamps is somehow demeaning, but asking them to take a drug test isn’t.

Jobs are what will change things.

I believe in a hand up; not a handout

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1 hour ago, Gotthegoods said:

Not to crack wise, but if you don't need ID to vote, EBT ain't on the real radar

But that we be a lot simpler to fix. Require only those issued cards be able to use them and most of the fraud would disappear overnight.

Announce that retailers must check IDs. Don't even need to enforce it or verify it is being done. 

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5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Some things should be common sense; but they aren’t.

I find it laughable that being able to ask for ID when someone is using food stamps is somehow demeaning, but asking them to take a drug test isn’t.

Using EBT SHOULD be demeaning, SHOULD require picture ID to use, SHOULD be subject to random blood test.

5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Jobs are what will change things.

Absolutely.

5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

I believe in a hand up; not a handout

EXACTLY! Reagen, I think.

Ages and ages ago I saw a political cartoon of  liberal and conservative ways to help the poor.

The poor were depicted in a deep valley in both shots.

The liberal method was lowering a large bucket full of money into the chasm with the liberals standing far away from the edge. 

The conservative method was people hammering together ladders, getting on the edge of the chasm and hoisting people up, and one character looking behind him and yelling WE NEED MORE WOOD!

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EBT  should never be used in a convenience store either.  I'm tired of watching the needy buying Jacks Link jerky, Monster energy drinks and cotton freaking candy.  Make it like the WIC program.  You get food!  Milk, bread, cheese etc.  That will drive them away in droves.

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18 minutes ago, Rightwinger said:

EBT  should never be used in a convenience store either.  I'm tired of watching the needy buying Jacks Link jerky, Monster energy drinks and cotton freaking candy.  Make it like the WIC program.  You get food!  Milk, bread, cheese etc.  That will drive them away in droves.

That is how the program use to work. There was restrictions on what could be bought on them. I have no clue when it changed.............:mad:

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5 hours ago, Gotthegoods said:

Not to crack wise, but if you don't need ID to vote, EBT ain't on the real radar

Since when can you vote without Id?

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30 minutes ago, Gotthegoods said:

I can't, but read on the internet it happens from time to time...

Which means it has to be true, of course ...

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3 hours ago, Raoul said:

Since when can you vote without Id?

 

1 hour ago, Gotthegoods said:

I can't, but read on the internet it happens from time to time...

 

32 minutes ago, No_0ne said:

Which means it has to be true, of course ...

 

There is no voter ID required in about a third of the US (17 states).

- OS

Edited by Oh Shoot

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I remember growing up eating Government cheese, and big tubs of peanut butter. I was real fond of the navy beans in the white cans, and I had to be near starving to eat the green beans.

 

I do not agree with the boxes of food. From a logistical standpoint it is a nightmare, delivery, dietary constraints, etc. What I do agree with is an approved food list just like WIC. Ground beef, milk, blocks of cheese, fresh fruit and vegetables, or canned. I do not agree with soft drinks, candy, junk food etc. It is too easy to (legitimately) spend all of your monthly allotment on Mountain Dew and Doritos at the first of the month. Then you and the children have nothing to eat my the middle of week two.

 

I personally think that mandatory classes on money management (with provided day care,) and job training skills (again with day care) would go a lot farther. I understand that it is hard for folks to find jobs that fit. There are a lot of variables to it all. 

 

My wife hates her job. She is underappreciated and overworked. It pays well, but it is demeaning. She wants to leave it. However we have no family and the cost of child care for our daughter is outrageous. Her job allows her a shift that is opposite of mine. Meaning that outside of emergency circumstances, we don't have to put our daughter into daycare. My wife stays at a job she hates because of that. Now, lets take our tax bracket out of the equation, and one of the parents. Hell, let's add a child or two. Now, how is a parent supposed to work at a realistic rate of $15 an hour, pay rent, buy food, keep gas in a car, lights on in a house AND pay for childcare? Much less get an education to better themselves? It is easy to lay the blame on them for poor choices, or society for the new norms. That isn't helping.

 

There needs to be a total revamp of the system. Subsidized child care, hell, that in itself would create jobs, would be a huge boon. With the amount of social programs out there now, training programs would go a long way to fixing what is broke. Accept the fact we are a consumer nation now and not a manufacturing nation. Train for service jobs. Until there is a total overhaul of the welfare and education systems, there will not be a change. College is not the answer for every child, regardless of the cost/ability to afford it. I have a rather high IQ, I did poorly in school because I didn't care. I was lied to and convinced that college was the answer. I carried a 3.75/4.0 GPA with perfect attendance. I was eligible for a $20k a year job upon graduation with well over $40k in debt. I was a lucky one. Right now we offer training programs with my company, two years, at $14+ an hour and $60k a year average upon completion. That means that realistically a 20 year old kid can be debt free, with a solid career, earning $60k a year. We have 500+ in our company. <10 under 25. Something needs to change.

Edited by Murgatroy
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I'm all for some good food stamp reform, but this plan ain't it.  Besides the already mentioned logistical challenges, perishable foods  are the good kinds of food we should be expecting people on the programs to have, not the junk food (see rant below).  People should use the food as a tool to teaching themselves to meal plan with their portions in the fridge, not just crack open the next can of high sodium chicken chunks as a means to shut up their whiny kid when they think they're hungry.

In addition, I'm pretty much presupposing a restructuring like this will have crony capitalism, along with fraud, waste, and abuse all over it.  My biggest question is who gets rich from the change...from there, my opinion will form over how noble a change this really is.

 

 

5 hours ago, bersaguy said:

That is how the program use to work. There was restrictions on what could be bought on them. I have no clue when it changed.............:mad:

I'm not sure when it changed either, but big companies were very much behind it. 

Walmart is probably at or near the top of the list of the lobbying.  If food stamps are cut, their economic outlook is hit, as was foretasted in this investors report..

Quote

 

“Our business operations are subject to numerous risks, factors and uncertainties, domestically and internationally, which are outside our control ... These factors include ... changes in the amount of payments made under the Supplement[al] Nutrition Assistance Plan and other public assistance plans, changes in the eligibility requirements of public assistance plans, ...”

http://www.ibtimes.com/first-time-walmart-annual-report-cites-changes-food-stamps-other-public-assistance-1563198

 

 

Add to that, all the big producers of junk foods have a financial interest in making sure their products can be bought by SNAP funds.  Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and every other company that has products in the isles, not along the wall of the grocery store where the "real food" (for lack of a better term) is kept are going to lobby behind the scenes to keep the SNAP funds open to anything edible. 


 

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9 hours ago, Murgatroy said:

I remember growing up eating Government cheese, and big tubs of peanut butter. I was real fond of the navy beans in the white cans, and I had to be near starving to eat the green beans.

 

I do not agree with the boxes of food. From a logistical standpoint it is a nightmare, delivery, dietary constraints, etc. What I do agree with is an approved food list just like WIC. Ground beef, milk, blocks of cheese, fresh fruit and vegetables, or canned. I do not agree with soft drinks, candy, junk food etc. It is too easy to (legitimately) spend all of your monthly allotment on Mountain Dew and Doritos at the first of the month. Then you and the children have nothing to eat my the middle of week two.

 

I personally think that mandatory classes on money management (with provided day care,) and job training skills (again with day care) would go a lot farther. I understand that it is hard for folks to find jobs that fit. There are a lot of variables to it all. 

 

My wife hates her job. She is underappreciated and overworked. It pays well, but it is demeaning. She wants to leave it. However we have no family and the cost of child care for our daughter is outrageous. Her job allows her a shift that is opposite of mine. Meaning that outside of emergency circumstances, we don't have to put our daughter into daycare. My wife stays at a job she hates because of that. Now, lets take our tax bracket out of the equation, and one of the parents. Hell, let's add a child or two. Now, how is a parent supposed to work at a realistic rate of $15 an hour, pay rent, buy food, keep gas in a car, lights on in a house AND pay for childcare? Much less get an education to better themselves? It is easy to lay the blame on them for poor choices, or society for the new norms. That isn't helping.

 

There needs to be a total revamp of the system. Subsidized child care, hell, that in itself would create jobs, would be a huge boon. With the amount of social programs out there now, training programs would go a long way to fixing what is broke. Accept the fact we are a consumer nation now and not a manufacturing nation. Train for service jobs. Until there is a total overhaul of the welfare and education systems, there will not be a change. College is not the answer for every child, regardless of the cost/ability to afford it. I have a rather high IQ, I did poorly in school because I didn't care. I was lied to and convinced that college was the answer. I carried a 3.75/4.0 GPA with perfect attendance. I was eligible for a $20k a year job upon graduation with well over $40k in debt. I was a lucky one. Right now we offer training programs with my company, two years, at $14+ an hour and $60k a year average upon completion. That means that realistically a 20 year old kid can be debt free, with a solid career, earning $60k a year. We have 500+ in our company. <10 under 25. Something needs to change.

Being responsible for your future and not expecting a handout is what needs to change. There are plenty of skilled trade workers that enter the workforce at $15 an hour out of trade school and work their way up. But some seem to think a hamburger flipper at McDonalds can’t live the life of luxury they want on $15 an hour. No kidding.

I hear all the time that women (or men sometimes) can’t work because they have kids to take care of. That’s BS. There are plenty of single Moms that make their way through College and into good jobs. It takes dedication and a good work ethic. Those that don’t have it won’t make it no matter how much you help them.

I believe that most people want to work. As good paying manufacturing jobs return to this country and business expands under the current administration making those job available; we will see a decrease not only in welfare, but in crime and drug use.

However, there will always be those that would rather lie on the couch, watch TV and get paid to have kids than work. The taxes of the working class should go to help those that want to get educated and be productive members of society; not to those that think they are owed something. We owe them nothing.

I feel the same way about College for everyone. Some people aren’t cut out for College and don’t have what it takes. You need to have some skin in the game. As a taxpayer I don’t mind helping those that will work; but I’m not okay with giving a handout to those that won’t.

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Education is key.. not some gov. block of cheese and a card full of money to spend how they please. People on welfare aint starving ,in fact, its the opposite, the healthcare system is overloaded with High blood pressure, diabetic people( me included) obese and generally unhealthy folks.. Most do not know how to eat healthy or have parents that do not care how they eat. Nutritional guides are just that.A guide to follow but no one does..A Mountain Dew or Monster and a lobster is far from healthy.

 

The problem is .. most have it much easier to be on welfare with 5 kids than taking a 8 bucks an hour job and pay for daycare. Its a easy ride and why should they work?I know people of generations and generations that have been on welfare and never worked a day in their lives..They are content to do this forever. 

We where on WIC when Dolomite was in the army..A E3 and me working, we still qualified for WIC after our son was born. We gave a lot a way because we would never use up all the milk or cheese they gave us.Its a good program and I am glad we had it back then..The welfare system on the other hand is a joke and it needs to me revamped and be stricter in enforcing it

 

MRE`s .adjusted to a healthy caloric value is not bad when you are starving or have to feed your kids.:) I dont know the solution but something is very wrong when  woman using their vaginas as clowncars, get on welfare ,flaunt it, are able to work and simply wont help them self and our veterans are starving,cant get relieve from trauma and are homeless... 

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I was told to go vote..

10 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

 

 

 

There is no voter ID required in about a third of the US (17 states).

- OS

I was told to go vote.. even them knowing I am not an American citizen..I told them no way and what could happen if they catch me.This was in a local election for some county seats. That makes me wonder how many non-citizen really do get to vote and how much a difference that makes. Voter fraud must be a pretty high percentage then?

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11 minutes ago, Dolomite`s Breezy said:

and our veterans are starving,cant get relieve from trauma and are homeless... 

I may be naïve about it but I truly believe that is going to end. (At least until the Dems get back in control)

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3 hours ago, DaveTN said:

 

I hear all the time that women (or men sometimes) can’t work because they have kids to take care of. That’s BS. There are plenty of single Moms that make their way through College and into good jobs. It takes dedication and a good work ethic. Those that don’t have it won’t make it no matter how much you help them.

 

I think that is a naive outlook. If someone has a solid support system that can watch your child(ren) for free, yes. When the average cost of daycare is $10 an hour, explain how you can afford to survive when almost all of your paycheck goes to cover it? Especially when you take into account that your benefits are based on your income, so as you work, your benefits decrease.

 

A good work ethic and dedication have nothing to do with straight up not being able to afford it. A single woman who graduates high school with a crap education, gets a manufacturing job at $12 an hour, works 40 hours a week, pays $10 an hour for daycare can not afford to pay for it all, even with assistance. She then gets trapped on the teat, work and not survive, or accept the benefits and survive. College? Not even in the cards If she can't afford day care when she is working, how will she afford it when she doesn't have the hourly income.

 

Take that same woman and give her a support system that she can trust that can watch her child(ren) while she is working, attending class and studying at no cost to her, and she has a much better chance of success.

 

The funny part of this argument is that we then run into the common dead horse of today about the parent(s) not being their to raise the child. How could they? They are working 40 hours a week and taking classes to change their stars.

 

 

The point is simple, the system is broken. Society has changed. Families do not stay together, it doesn't mean the devil is coming, it means that society has changed from the 50s. The same era that history shows wasn't all peaches and cream either. A man as close to me as a father was raised by a single mother, after his father walked out on seven kids, then went on to have several more. He never helped, was never there. The mother didn't work. She raised a garden and took care of her sons and daughter. This man grew up to be one of the finest men I know, and it took a lot to get him there.

I am not saying that I agree with the route society has taken. My wife and I have been together for a long time, we became friends twenty years ago and next month we have our twelfth wedding anniversary. We have one daughter, because at that time in our life, one child is what we could afford. We both work, and we both are involved in our daughter's life. That might have been the norm, and it might be the norm among our circle of friends. But it wasn't how I was raised, and it isn't how my friends as a child were raised. It also isn't how my daughter's peers are being raised. Again, I can stand on a soap box on the corner and rant about it, but that isn't going to change the new norm. Just like this thread of normal discourse discussing Welfare Reform isn't going to cause the whole system to be revamped. I just think that too often we sit in our little world and judge others when we don't understand the struggles they may or may not be facing. I hear every day from folks about how hard it is for them to escape the drugs and poverty. But that is all they know, how they were raised. It is how I was raised, and I know, it was a struggle. It was pure hell. If it weren't for my wife, my daughter and several healthy communities I became a part of, I am not sure I would have made it.

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4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

I may be naïve about it but I truly believe that is going to end. (At least until the Dems get back in control)

I hope so.. and its not a bad thing to have hope!! :)

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1 hour ago, Murgatroy said:

My wife and I have been together for a long time, we became friends twenty years ago and next month we have our twelfth wedding anniversary. We have one daughter, because at that time in our life, one child is what we could afford. 

 This is the big difference between you and those living off of the taxpayers. Like you, we didn't have kids that we couldn't support.

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1 hour ago, Murgatroy said:

I think that is a naive outlook. If someone has a solid support system that can watch your child(ren) for free, yes. When the average cost of daycare is $10 an hour, explain how you can afford to survive when almost all of your paycheck goes to cover it? Especially when you take into account that your benefits are based on your income, so as you work, your benefits decrease.

 

A good work ethic and dedication have nothing to do with straight up not being able to afford it. A single woman who graduates high school with a crap education, gets a manufacturing job at $12 an hour, works 40 hours a week, pays $10 an hour for daycare can not afford to pay for it all, even with assistance. She then gets trapped on the teat, work and not survive, or accept the benefits and survive. College? Not even in the cards If she can't afford day care when she is working, how will she afford it when she doesn't have the hourly income.

 

Take that same woman and give her a support system that she can trust that can watch her child(ren) while she is working, attending class and studying at no cost to her, and she has a much better chance of success.

 

The funny part of this argument is that we then run into the common dead horse of today about the parent(s) not being their to raise the child. How could they? They are working 40 hours a week and taking classes to change their stars.

 

 

The point is simple, the system is broken. Society has changed. Families do not stay together, it doesn't mean the devil is coming, it means that society has changed from the 50s. The same era that history shows wasn't all peaches and cream either. A man as close to me as a father was raised by a single mother, after his father walked out on seven kids, then went on to have several more. He never helped, was never there. The mother didn't work. She raised a garden and took care of her sons and daughter. This man grew up to be one of the finest men I know, and it took a lot to get him there.

I am not saying that I agree with the route society has taken. My wife and I have been together for a long time, we became friends twenty years ago and next month we have our twelfth wedding anniversary. We have one daughter, because at that time in our life, one child is what we could afford. We both work, and we both are involved in our daughter's life. That might have been the norm, and it might be the norm among our circle of friends. But it wasn't how I was raised, and it isn't how my friends as a child were raised. It also isn't how my daughter's peers are being raised. Again, I can stand on a soap box on the corner and rant about it, but that isn't going to change the new norm. Just like this thread of normal discourse discussing Welfare Reform isn't going to cause the whole system to be revamped. I just think that too often we sit in our little world and judge others when we don't understand the struggles they may or may not be facing. I hear every day from folks about how hard it is for them to escape the drugs and poverty. But that is all they know, how they were raised. It is how I was raised, and I know, it was a struggle. It was pure hell. If it weren't for my wife, my daughter and several healthy communities I became a part of, I am not sure I would have made it.

For someone who’s not particularly religious, that message will sure preach.

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11 hours ago, Murgatroy said:

I think that is a naive outlook. If someone has a solid support system that can watch your child(ren) for free, yes. When the average cost of daycare is $10 an hour, explain how you can afford to survive when almost all of your paycheck goes to cover it? Especially when you take into account that your benefits are based on your income, so as you work, your benefits decrease.

 

A good work ethic and dedication have nothing to do with straight up not being able to afford it. A single woman who graduates high school with a crap education, gets a manufacturing job at $12 an hour, works 40 hours a week, pays $10 an hour for daycare can not afford to pay for it all, even with assistance. She then gets trapped on the teat, work and not survive, or accept the benefits and survive. College? Not even in the cards If she can't afford day care when she is working, how will she afford it when she doesn't have the hourly income.

 

Take that same woman and give her a support system that she can trust that can watch her child(ren) while she is working, attending class and studying at no cost to her, and she has a much better chance of success.

 

The funny part of this argument is that we then run into the common dead horse of today about the parent(s) not being their to raise the child. How could they? They are working 40 hours a week and taking classes to change their stars.

 

 

The point is simple, the system is broken. Society has changed. Families do not stay together, it doesn't mean the devil is coming, it means that society has changed from the 50s. The same era that history shows wasn't all peaches and cream either. A man as close to me as a father was raised by a single mother, after his father walked out on seven kids, then went on to have several more. He never helped, was never there. The mother didn't work. She raised a garden and took care of her sons and daughter. This man grew up to be one of the finest men I know, and it took a lot to get him there.

I am not saying that I agree with the route society has taken. My wife and I have been together for a long time, we became friends twenty years ago and next month we have our twelfth wedding anniversary. We have one daughter, because at that time in our life, one child is what we could afford. We both work, and we both are involved in our daughter's life. That might have been the norm, and it might be the norm among our circle of friends. But it wasn't how I was raised, and it isn't how my friends as a child were raised. It also isn't how my daughter's peers are being raised. Again, I can stand on a soap box on the corner and rant about it, but that isn't going to change the new norm. Just like this thread of normal discourse discussing Welfare Reform isn't going to cause the whole system to be revamped. I just think that too often we sit in our little world and judge others when we don't understand the struggles they may or may not be facing. I hear every day from folks about how hard it is for them to escape the drugs and poverty. But that is all they know, how they were raised. It is how I was raised, and I know, it was a struggle. It was pure hell. If it weren't for my wife, my daughter and several healthy communities I became a part of, I am not sure I would have made it.

Excellent points.  This holds true for more Americans than many can imagine.

 

 

Edited by LINKS2K

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