Jump to content

Red flag laws claim their first victim


Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

How do you feel about the law it's self?

I have mixed feelings on these types of laws.  There is no doubt some people should simply not be allowed to have guns in their possession.  There is also the potential for rampant abuse of one’s rights.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
  • Moderators
1 minute ago, bersaguy said:

Ok so I will admit I am dumb when it comes to some of this but doesn't laws need to go through the process of House-Senate-President and signed by President before it is law? Especially when the law is unconstitutional to begin with!!!! 

Not if it is a state law. Replace president with governor. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
55 minutes ago, peejman said:

I'd say there's no chance this law passes any semblance of a "due process" examination, and it's clearly a 4th Amendment violation. 

But these days, you never know. 

Well, I'm afraid it's been challenged at the state level and been upheld.  I don't know if it's been sent up to SCOTUS or not though.

Link to comment

He was being served with an Extreme Risk Protective Order issued by a Judge requiring they seize his guns. The stories I see don’t say whether or not he is notified of that request or allowed to be heard. Probably like a domestic violence order of protection where no hearing is required or even offered to put someone out of their house.

This is done a lot throughout the country on domestic violence calls. No real evidence required, simply the word of a family member.

Isn’t this done in Tennessee? Forcible hold in a mental facility and confiscation of weapons? Seems I remember this happening with one of the “prepper” people.

Link to comment
52 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

He was being served with an Extreme Risk Protective Order issued by a Judge requiring they seize his guns. The stories I see don’t say whether or not he is notified of that request or allowed to be heard. Probably like a domestic violence order of protection where no hearing is required or even offered to put someone out of their house.

This is done a lot throughout the country on domestic violence calls. No real evidence required, simply the word of a family member.

Isn’t this done in Tennessee? Forcible hold in a mental facility and confiscation of weapons? Seems I remember this happening with one of the “prepper” people.

So a judge is signing an order based purely on heresay? And this process is somewhat routine for other issues?

Further confirmation that we have a legal system and not a justice system. 

And for the record, I agree with Garufa's comments. But this is America and we are assured certain inalienable rights. 

Link to comment
16 minutes ago, peejman said:

So a judge is signing an order based purely on heresay? And this process is somewhat routine for other issues?

Absolutely. I don’t know all states laws, but I would guess it happens routinely in all states that have domestic violence laws. Simply claiming you threatened them, with no supporting evidence or witnesses is generally enough, and it happens all the time.

If your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend/family member, etc., claims you assaulted or threatened them, you can be cuffed and stuffed. They can get an order of protection keeping you from returning to your house and all weapons can be seized from your house.

Domestic violence laws were changed in the 80’s and they are no joke. Unless you get into felony assault, most Domestic Violence charges are misdemeanors, but a conviction can result in you not being able to own firearms.

Link to comment
2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I don't believe so. I don't think it'll pass the supreme court with today's membership.

Yea, let's hope so, but it all depends on the argument on both sides.  In my book, if there is enough reason to  disarm someone, then there should be enough reason to charge and jail them or to at least send in for a mental eval, the outcome of which should lock the person up or release without prejudice.

Link to comment
2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I don't believe so. I don't think it'll pass the supreme court with today's membership.

I think they will pass the Supreme Court. The Judge can issue an emergency, temporary order based on the testimony of others until a hearing can be convened with the person in question present with council.

At least this way the person can be free, able to get a lawyer and mount a defense, instead of being arrested on criminal charges. Unless of course the seizure is because of threats that lead to criminal charges.

Is there a better way?

Link to comment
29 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

It was my understanding that no charges were filed, and the police were not there to arrest him; just confiscate his firearms. I saw no evidence that he was even accused of breaking any laws. I consider this armed robbery.

What do you suggest? I’m not arguing it’s a question.

A family member requested the protective order in Maryland.

You see members here blaming the cops in California for what happened at the recent bar shooting. He did not commit a crime, he was not arrested, he was not transported to a mental health facility, and he was not held for observation. (As some claim) Mental health people were sent to his house to talk to him; they did and determined there was no evidence to commit him or arrest him.

Flags were there in the Parkland shooting and the pulse night club shooting. They weren’t acted on.

Link to comment
34 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

It was my understanding that no charges were filed, and the police were not there to arrest him; just confiscate his firearms. I saw no evidence that he was even accused of breaking any laws. I consider this armed robbery.

Yep, an armed robbery that turned into much much more than it should have. They should have had a warrant of some kind to give the man instead of just telling him they were there to disarm him. I hope his family sues everyone connected to this crime cause that is what it is. That will probably be the only way to get it in front of the Supreme Court..............JMHO 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

Yep, an armed robbery that turned into much much more than it should have. They should have had a warrant of some kind to give the man instead of just telling him they were there to disarm him. I hope his family sues everyone connected to this crime cause that is what it is. That will probably be the only way to get it in front of the Supreme Court..............JMHO 

They did have a court order. How can you call this an armed robbery and blame the cops in CA for not committing the bar shooter who had committed no crime either?

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

They did have a court order. How can you call this an armed robbery and blame the cops in CA for not committing the bar shooter who had committed no crime either?

This is probably not gonna make much sense but going to say it anyway. The man that was killed over his guns had never been arrested or even a traffic ticket and a complaint from some extended family member was the one the made the request that they just take his guns and it got him killed. I think who ever this person was should be required to file a complaint and provide a reason for the Confiscation for the records should it go to court.  Of course this one won't be except maybe Civil Court. 

The CA shooter had been in trouble with the law when he was young and again when he returned home from Marine Corps. The reason the Mental Crisis Unit was called to his home was because he was having as issue of domestic violence and kicking holes in the Walls of the home they lived in.

Now maybe some people don't see a difference between the 2 cases but I do..............JMHO 

  • Like 1
Link to comment

For what it's worth, I believe it's another foot in the door for total gun confiscation. I remember a push years back to demonize gun owners by saying all gun owners were mentally incompetent. Once they determine they can do this, what is to say that they won't go after all gun owners "because someone feels threatened"? Maybe I am too distrustful, but there it is.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
29 minutes ago, Photoguy67 said:

For what it's worth, I believe it's another foot in the door for total gun confiscation. I remember a push years back to demonize gun owners by saying all gun owners were mentally incompetent. Once they determine they can do this, what is to say that they won't go after all gun owners "because someone feels threatened"? Maybe I am too distrustful, but there it is.

There is little doubt that it is another foot in the door and I think if it gets in front of the Supreme Court it will get the door slammed on their foot and all of the Red Flag bills will get declared Unconstitutional. It's just a matter of getting it into the Courts hands.

You can bet with the death of the man in Maryland the bills are being looked at very carefully by many people and some that have the power to put in in front of the court...........JMHO

Link to comment
1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

What do you suggest? I’m not arguing it’s a question.

Due process? Pretend what happened to this guy happened to you because a pizzas off neighbor called in on you.

We need some system to deal with the mentally ill. There aren't any easy answers.

Link to comment
28 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Due process? Pretend what happened to this guy happened to you because a pizzas off neighbor called in on you.

We need some system to deal with the mentally ill. There aren't any easy answers.

I don’t see where due process didn’t happen here. A family member instigated this, not the cops. We have no idea what they claimed. But a Judge heard it and issued the order, same as a warrant. The man could have then went to court and argued his case. That is due process.

Subpoenaing someone to court because you are going to have a hearing about confiscating their guns won’t work.

It’s not just the mentally ill, domestic violence calls are very dangerous for everyone involved. They are very emotional; and they can turn deadly quick; for both cops and citizens. I know I’ve seen it too many times firsthand.

I’ve always said orders of protection are a problem. I’ve explained to people that they don’t protect them; they just allow the cops to arrest the person if they violate them. Too often when they are violated the offender and family members are dead.

We can’t stop that any more than we can stop mass shootings. So do we do nothing? I don’t have the answers; only suggestions.

But I have zero sympathy for anyone that directs violence towards another person. Whether that be family members, friends, or the cops dispatched to their house because they can’t handle their own family issues.

As I’ve told my friends and family; the cops are not your friend. They are not social workers and they are not going to fix your problems. If you have a family member or friend that needs professional help; get it for them. Rarely will an arrest make that happen.

  • Like 2
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

TRADING POST NOTICE

Before engaging in any transaction of goods or services on TGO, all parties involved must know and follow the local, state and Federal laws regarding those transactions.

TGO makes no claims, guarantees or assurances regarding any such transactions.

THE FINE PRINT

Tennessee Gun Owners (TNGunOwners.com) is the premier Community and Discussion Forum for gun owners, firearm enthusiasts, sportsmen and Second Amendment proponents in the state of Tennessee and surrounding region.

TNGunOwners.com (TGO) is a presentation of Enthusiast Productions. The TGO state flag logo and the TGO tri-hole "icon" logo are trademarks of Tennessee Gun Owners. The TGO logos and all content presented on this site may not be reproduced in any form without express written permission. The opinions expressed on TGO are those of their authors and do not necessarily reflect those of the site's owners or staff.

TNGunOwners.com (TGO) is not a lobbying organization and has no affiliation with any lobbying organizations.  Beware of scammers using the Tennessee Gun Owners name, purporting to be Pro-2A lobbying organizations!

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to the following.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Guidelines
 
We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.