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Dont be a cheapskate...save an Eagle..use copper ammo when hunting...

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Or remove the bullet fragments if you're going to leave the carcass or gut pile. Birds certainly aren't the only critters that eat carrion and are subject to lead poisoning. 

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Please let me be the first to call bull$hit on that.

Bear in mind it's living along the largest concentration of wolves, badgers, bears, lions & corvids in the lower 48, how much carrion containing lead fragments must the thing have had to have eaten in it's life. A bird that is primarily a hunting raptor & not a scavenger, to boot. 

Over an average lifespan of 30 years (Google) that single bird must've eaten just about every single carcass shot within 30 miles of Yellowstone AND been unlucky enough to have found every trace of lead, from every bullet.

I'm sorry, but the math simply doesn't work for me. 

Further studies have shown that actually consuming the average quantity of lead found in a recovered animal carcass, on a regular basis, has literally ZERO effect on (human) health.

Think about it....the average hunting bullet out west (primarily big .30s & 7s) weighs 180gn, give or take. If a recovered bullet retains 50% of it's mass (low estimate) & 50% of shots are passthroughs (SUPER low estimate...) statistically speaking, the average uncovered mule deer, antelope or elk, weighing a (WAG) average of 300lb therefore contains 45gn of bullet. Call 5gn of that jacket & you've got 40gn of lead.

The average critter is around 50% edible meat, innards & skin.

Therefore the average pound of meat contains 0.0000380952gn of actual lead.

The average golden eagle eats ½ to 1lb of meat per day (Google), split the difference & call that ¾lb, so 0.00002857140gn of lead per day.

At an average lifespan of 10950 days, that's a total of 0.31285683gn of lead in it's entire life. That's 1.75 No.12 shot, to put it in reasonable terms.

A hair under a third of a grain of lead, in it's entire life.

I'm calling a hard "BOLLOCKS" on the whole deal.....

 

Edited by robtattoo
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OH! OH! OH!!! And as The Wife just pointed ought, that's assuming that eagles don't actually poop!!

Bear in mind that actual lead solid are non digestible, I'm going to go ahead & make the assumption that the stupid eagle actually shat out a good 90% of the lead it ingested!!

I would alter my guess to state that I'd bet it consumed less lead in it's life that is contained in 10 gallons of tap water.

Edited by robtattoo
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2 minutes ago, robtattoo said:

OH! OH! OH!!! And as The Wife just pointed ought, that's assuming that eagles don't actually poop!!

Bear in mind that actual lead solid are non digestible, I'm going to go ahead & make the assumption that the stupid eagle actually shat out a good 90% of the lead it ingested!!

I would alter my guess to state that I'd bet it consumed less lead in it's life that is contained in 10 gallons of tap water.

Man that is some interesting pillow talk at your house. :biglol:

Maybe the tracking device contained lead that seeped into the eagle. Maybe in the batteries. Lmao....

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11 hours ago, robtattoo said:

OH! OH! OH!!! And as The Wife just pointed ought, that's assuming that eagles don't actually poop!!

Bear in mind that actual lead solid are non digestible, I'm going to go ahead & make the assumption that the stupid eagle actually shat out a good 90% of the lead it ingested!!

I would alter my guess to state that I'd bet it consumed less lead in it's life that is contained in 10 gallons of tap water.

My wife used to work with a raptor rehabber. Bullet fragments aren't so much an issue as shotgun pellets.   A single shotgun pellet consumed can make a smaller bird very sick, I've seen it.  Most of the birds she dealt with had been shot but there were a few that injested the lead. I think I recall an Osprey that ate a fish that had swallowed a lead sinker.  It doesn't take much when you weigh 5lbs or less.   

Most raptors are opportunistic. If they find something edible that's already dead, they'll eat it. It's easier than expending the effort to kill it. Was it you that had the pics of the albino hawk on a gut pile?

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An Eagle ingesting a lead bullet and dying from lead poisoning makes sense to me. We all know the dangers of lead. Asking hunters to use copper ammunition on their hunts is not unreasonable. If hunters can’t use common sense for a known problem; they will have the government force them to comply. Unfortunately its usually only a few that cause problems for everyone.

Quote

 

https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/lead-ammunition-toxic-wildlife-people-and-environment

Frequently Asked Questions about Lead Ammunition

How does lead ammunition poison wildlife?

Lead ammunition is toxic to wildlife in two ways:

1. Primary poisoning: An animal ingests spent ammunition (or fragments of ammunition) directly from the environment, usually when foraging for food on the ground.

2. Secondary poisoning: An animal consumes spent ammunition while eating wounded or dead prey or while scavenging contaminated remains left behind by hunters.

Both avenues can be lethal.

How much lead ammunition does it take to harm an animal?

A single shotgun pellet can cause organ failure and brain damage, inhibiting an animal’s critical neuromuscular, auditory and visual responses. Lead poisoning can induce lethargy, blindness, paralysis of the lungs and intestinal tract, seizure and death. Animals who survive often experience long-term negative effects that make them more susceptible to dangers such as predation and car collisions.

 

 

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So let me get this straight, hundreds of years of hunters using lead bullets and NOW they have ONE eagle die and its the bullets?  What is the likelihood that the lead the eagle ingested was from a gut pile?  I know some do gut shoot their deer, but most aim for the boiler room, and hardly ever does the bullet, even fragments, end up in the gut pile. 

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28 minutes ago, Omega said:

So let me get this straight, hundreds of years of hunters using lead bullets and NOW they have ONE eagle die and its the bullets?  What is the likelihood that the lead the eagle ingested was from a gut pile?  I know some do gut shoot their deer, but most aim for the boiler room, and hardly ever does the bullet, even fragments, end up in the gut pile. 

DING, DING, DING we have a winner. This is just another way to take away the 2nd!!!

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34 minutes ago, Omega said:

So let me get this straight, hundreds of years of hunters using lead bullets and NOW they have ONE eagle die and its the bullets?  What is the likelihood that the lead the eagle ingested was from a gut pile?  I know some do gut shoot their deer, but most aim for the boiler room, and hardly ever does the bullet, even fragments, end up in the gut pile. 

Its been an issue for many years. Many state hunting laws address it; its not something new.

Yes, at some point lead will probably be outlawed for hunting. Something will take its place. Will it cost more, maybe/maybe not?

The company I worked for made some parts that involved us handling lead. I’ve been a Machinist most of my life, I’m fully aware of the dangers of lead. I didn’t want to handle that stuff or breath it while it was being cut. We all wore gloves and masks.

We don’t know what we don’t know. A few years ago it came out they think there is a link between Alzheimer’s and aluminum. There is Alzheimer’s in my family and I just retired from a company making mainly aluminum aircraft parts…. great.

Responsible people in industry try to make manufacturing safe for their employees and the public. But some won’t comply until the government passes laws making them comply. It appears to be the same with hunting.

4 minutes ago, RED333 said:

DING, DING, DING we have a winner. This is just another way to take away the 2nd!!!

The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, and none of this has anything to do with the 2nd amendment.

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1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

 and none of this has anything to do with the 2nd amendment

BRAVO SIERRA,  the birts came for cannon and shot. Taking away ammo be it lead or what ever is an attack on the 2nd!

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On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 1:45 PM, RED333 said:

BRAVO SIERRA,  the birts came for cannon and shot. Taking away ammo be it lead or what ever is an attack on the 2nd!

omg loosen the tinfoil lol

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On 4/16/2019 at 7:35 PM, robtattoo said:

Please let me be the first to call bull$hit on that.

Bear in mind it's living along the largest concentration of wolves, badgers, bears, lions & corvids in the lower 48, how much carrion containing lead fragments must the thing have had to have eaten in it's life. A bird that is primarily a hunting raptor & not a scavenger, to boot. 

Over an average lifespan of 30 years (Google) that single bird must've eaten just about every single carcass shot within 30 miles of Yellowstone AND been unlucky enough to have found every trace of lead, from every bullet.

I'm sorry, but the math simply doesn't work for me. 

Further studies have shown that actually consuming the average quantity of lead found in a recovered animal carcass, on a regular basis, has literally ZERO effect on (human) health.

Think about it....the average hunting bullet out west (primarily big .30s & 7s) weighs 180gn, give or take. If a recovered bullet retains 50% of it's mass (low estimate) & 50% of shots are passthroughs (SUPER low estimate...) statistically speaking, the average uncovered mule deer, antelope or elk, weighing a (WAG) average of 300lb therefore contains 45gn of bullet. Call 5gn of that jacket & you've got 40gn of lead.

The average critter is around 50% edible meat, innards & skin.

Therefore the average pound of meat contains 0.0000380952gn of actual lead.

The average golden eagle eats ½ to 1lb of meat per day (Google), split the difference & call that ¾lb, so 0.00002857140gn of lead per day.

At an average lifespan of 10950 days, that's a total of 0.31285683gn of lead in it's entire life. That's 1.75 No.12 shot, to put it in reasonable terms.

A hair under a third of a grain of lead, in it's entire life.

I'm calling a hard "BOLLOCKS" on the whole deal.....

 

there was an interesting discussion on the "Going Ballistic" podcast about this the other day and they tended to agree with you.

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OMG , sounds like they are trying to make TN into the new CA . And I was hoping for at least 10 years of freedom here .

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