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1 hour ago, enfield said:

Yes it is.  You remember . . .

Yeah you are so right.

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I received two notices today regarding the NRA. One notice was forwarded to me by a member of the NRA Carry Guard program, notifying them that their Carry Guard coverage had been cancelled. The other notice was received by me personally, directly from the NRA, and suggesting the organization is badly in need of re-alignment and lacks capable leadership.

https://lawofselfdefense.com/nra-carry-guard-cancelled/

 

:lol: That guys a clown. Why in the world would the NRA be sending him a personal email about re-alignment and capable leadership?

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Dave guess we will just have to disagree.  Branca is the leading defensive attorney in the country in regard to carry law.  Sought out by all major 2nd Amendment media for opinion and appearances for his expertise.  I have followed him for several years as well as attending his live course.  No one person has kept the gun crowd as informed as he.  If you read his notice completely, or followed his blogs you would know that he is a life member of the NRA as well as a donor.  Given his position with the available insurance carriers, it is not hard to believe he would be privy to some advance info and notice.

Edited by chances R

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26 minutes ago, chances R said:

Dave guess we will just have to disagree. 

Correct. :)

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2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Correct. :)

I wasn’t impressed with his appearances here, that’s for sure. Maybe in the time since the Zimmerman trial he’s learned how to self promote without being completely obnoxious. 

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2 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

I wasn’t impressed with his appearances here, that’s for sure. Maybe in the time since the Zimmerman trial he’s learned how to self promote without being completely obnoxious. 

Well he is obnoxious, but so are both of us, you more than me, but that aside, I thought if you were going to pretended to be an expert at something… like a defense attorney in shooting cases, you would have had to actually successfully defended people in those type cases. But apparently, I set my standards too high.

It should be criminal for clowns like him, and others, to be spouting off about what people should do or shouldn’t do after a shooting when they have no track record or experience in the real world.

He’s academia and the other academics can’t wait to have him speak at their classes.

It’s like one of them telling you what it’s like to be in a shooting. If you are going to have a conversation about what its like to be in a shooting; it probably should be with someone that has been in a shooting. There are plenty of those folks around.

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24 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Well he is obnoxious, but so are both of us, you more than me, but that aside, I thought if you were going to pretended to be an expert at something… like a defense attorney in shooting cases, you would have had to actually successfully defended people in those type cases. But apparently, I set my standards too high.

It should be criminal for clowns like him, and others, to be spouting off about what people should do or shouldn’t do after a shooting when they have no track record or experience in the real world.

He’s academia and the other academics can’t wait to have him speak at their classes.

It’s like one of them telling you what it’s like to be in a shooting. If you are going to have a conversation about what its like to be in a shooting; it probably should be with someone that has been in a shooting. There are plenty of those folks around.

Only thing I think you got wrong in this post is which one of us is more obnoxious. 🤣

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41 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Only thing I think you got wrong in this post is which one of us is more obnoxious. 🤣

I think it is time for a TGO poll.....

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56 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Only thing I think you got wrong in this post is which one of us is more obnoxious. 🤣

I volunteer to be the tie-breaker! :hyper:

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I've been with USCCA a good bit now.

Thank God I've not ever had to use them.

I have chosen John Harris, Executive Director TFA as my lawyer through them should I ever need one.

Good to know the lawyer you choose is actually Pro 2A to the core. :) 

 

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2 hours ago, KahrMan said:

I think it is time for a TGO poll.....

 

2 hours ago, E4 No More said:

I volunteer to be the tie-breaker! :hyper:

no respect GIF by Rodney Dangerfield

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I belong to the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Net(360-978-5200). John Harris is one of their affiliated Attorneys, if memory serves me well. I like their set up. Not insurance but a network of like minded concealed carriers who don't want to use them , "BUT". Check them out if you are interested.  

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I am using U.S. LawShield out of Texas.  John Harris is also one of their attorneys.  They cover incidents where you are in fear of death or bodily harm and use your weapon, if you are in a place where it is legal to possess a weapon.  If you happen to be found guilty, they will still cover your costs and even cover appeals.  I don't believe there are many that will do that.  If you want to speak with them, here is their website:

https://www.uslawshield.com/

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CCWSafe and the Maddox Case --- best write up I have seen on that one. Maddox still ahd 2 years of memory, but would have been in jail for murder (life in NC) without CCWSafe's effort.  

https://www.concealedcarry.com/law/concealed-carry-charged-with-first-degree-murder/

Sad thing is, shows how messed up the criminal Justice system is (sometimes) when someone that has been beat up twice (within 7 minutes) and a 300 pound Arse is coming at you again when you are trying to leave the scene - and you shoot to defend yourself. Think article said 5 rounds total (with a 44).  

This was a NC mess, reckon can happen anywhere if can happen in a State like NC. 

The link came out of an article dealing with different providers of protection (mainly USCCA and CCWSafe comparison and dealt with USCCA's pullout if NJ).  Some plans are considered insurance and some states have laws against (NY, WA, and now NJ). USCCA pulled out of NJ. CCWSafe plans are still active in all states (some different procedure they use). 

As far as I am concerned CCWSafe is the best -- Cheap for CC Permit Holders at $179 (does not cover Civil). I think their full blown maximum plan is like $479 or so (Covers Civil and $100K for Bail Bond, etc. etc.).  

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I have been paying $24.00 a month for NRA carryguard insurance.  Today at the Lebanon Gun Show a Rep at the USCCA booth tells me that I am no longer insured.  I go home and research and find out she's right.  Yet, they have been hitting my CC every month. What a Crock.  Anyone else a member of NRA carry guard should read this.

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/the-nra-ends-its-carry-guard-insurance-program/

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11 hours ago, bluemailman53 said:

I have been paying $24.00 a month for NRA carryguard insurance.  Today at the Lebanon Gun Show a Rep at the USCCA booth tells me that I am no longer insured.  I go home and research and find out she's right.  Yet, they have been hitting my CC every month. What a Crock.  Anyone else a member of NRA carry guard should read this.

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/the-nra-ends-its-carry-guard-insurance-program/

Then I assume they will refund you all the payments since they stopped your coverage.

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1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

Then I assume they will refund you all the payments since they stopped your coverage.

I sure as heck home so. Right now I don't even know how long I haven't had coverage.

Edited by bluemailman53

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All this discussion is mind boggling (some seems to be just to create arguments, and some is useful even in doing that). It is hard to compare the different programs for sure.  

My opinions and Thoughts:

1) My insurance (Farm Bureau) company's Umbrella Liability does not cover a self defense situation per my agent. I assume that is true.

2) None of the programs for a defense of a Self Defense Claim cover a crime (murder), they  only cover Self Defense. Who decides (?), they do I assume. Hopefully, it is an honest and correct decision.

Per Andrew Blanca's posts - there is an ongoing conflict with a member of USCCA regarding USCCA not paying after "reportably" paying bail.  I don't know the story to make a intelligent decision. However, my opinion based on INFO I have from Andrew's posts is that it looks suspicious. It may not have been a self defense. Best you research that one yourself. 

3) Some memberships in some programs are not allowed in some states. Apparently CCW Safe is in all states because of the way they are set up (something about a model of Police Program and they fund the coverage in a different manner than others).

4) Some LIMIT $$$ coverage (amount allowed for defense) and some are not adequate to cover an actual defense. CCW Safe is UNLIMITED $$$$ including any appeals, mistrials, etc. (Bail is limited to I think $5000,000 or $1,000,000 for maximum program (they changed that recently).  Since USCCA is one I would consider -- I state USCCA's coverage is Limited based on the program you choose and I think most basic programs are not adequate except for the premium.  

5) Some have a list of Lawyers and some do not. CCWSafe does not - they assist in picking a local Lawyer and work with the lawyer in the defense and investigation.  

6) Most do not cover Civil Liability, some do but require a higher premium. Talking getting into $500 +/- per year for Complete and Maximum coverage.

7) Some limit Bail Bond (Bail can be as high as $500,000 or a $1,000,000). Some allow that much coverage, but also require the higher premium plan. Don't forget Lawyer Retaining Fees ($50K +/-  to start as well as fees for trial, appeals, investigators, experts. 

Skip 8 because when I hit the  )   after 8, I get a smiley face. LOL  like 😎  Weird

9) Finally, I say as Andrew mentions in his discussions of Choosing a Program (make sure you understand what they cover - $$$$ and how it is Limited).

10)  Andrew has a Consulting Program (I think is like $250 in advance per year) to have him as a consultant in a case. Apparently, his Consulting Fees would be beyond most of us to afford. That said, I think (a guess) if you have a good Program (like CCWSafe and maybe USCCA), it would cover his consult fee if your lawyer decided it is needed.

11) Many programs provide some training FREE (Podcasts, E Mails, Videos). Some of that training you have to purchase.  Might add Andrew does have a Bronze Membership (FREE, but time for advertisement of his products)) that hooks you up to his weekly reviews of some cases and other information. I find it interesting and though provoking.   

PS: My opinion - CCW Safe coverage for those with a Carry Permit at $179 a year is the best program that is reasonable (basically unlimited $$$$ for defense and at least $5000,000 bail - maybe it is $1,000,000).  BTW, it does not include Civil Liability, I think that gets to near $500  a year.  

PSS: The safest thing from a Risk of Injury and a Legal Battle (either of which you may loose) is AVOIDANCE  The "justice system" is not forgiving on such issues and is not always FAIR. I include the advice to only show (unconcealed carry can affect that), draw, or use your gun IF ALL CONDITIONS ARE MET.

Ain't NO property defense, ain't NOr defense of your honor that is gonna keep you out of prison for a long time. In other words No ANYTHING except DEFENSE of LIFE  (and the window for that is often very limited to seconds).  Ask the Dude in FL acting up about someone parking in a handicap spot how short the window is.    

 

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23 minutes ago, PAULSHOOT said:

2) None of the programs for a defense of a Self Defense Claim cover a crime (murder), they  only cover Self Defense. Who decides (?), they do I assume. Hopefully, it is an honest and correct decision.

Exactly. I do not believe for one second any insurance policy is going to pay if you commit a criminal act. No one has ever needed bond money unless they were arrested for a crime.

I want to hear from the customers they have that have arrested and charged with crimes, what happened to them, and how much the insurance paid. I wouldn’t make my choice with only a couple of cases they have cherry picked where someone may have been arrested on weapons charges and then the charges dropped, or never filed.

And if I’m getting my legal advice from someone that is touted as the best criminal defense attorney on defending shooting cases; I would want him to have actually have successfully defended some shooting cases. Wouldn’t you?

Edited by DaveTN

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On 10/8/2019 at 2:45 PM, Chucktshoes said:

Only thing I think you got wrong in this post is which one of us is more obnoxious. 🤣

I think it's a tie.

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22 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Exactly. I do not believe for one second any insurance policy is going to pay if you commit a criminal act. No one has ever needed bond money unless they were arrested for a crime.

I want to hear from the customers they have that have arrested and charged with crimes, what happened to them, and how much the insurance paid. I wouldn’t make my choice with only a couple of cases they have cherry picked where someone may have been arrested on weapons charges and then the charges dropped, or never filed.

And if I’m getting my legal advice from someone that is touted as the best criminal defense attorney on defending shooting cases; I would want him to have actually have successfully defended some shooting cases. Wouldn’t you?

I want to hear from the customers they have that have arrested and charged with crimes, what happened to them, and how much the insurance paid. 

I would advise do some research. One case I am familiar with from reading (not personally involved) is the Maddox Murder Charge as he was a CCWSafe Member at the time (and likely would have gone to prison for life due to the charge if not for CCWSafe defense efforts). 

You can research the incident leading to the charge (I have read various articles with some variation in fact and saw some videos (U-Tube) regarding the incident.

As I understand it here are the basics -- Maddox and Wilkerson had a disagreement from a MC ride event that Maddox had violated some safety rule the club had in Wilkerson's opinion.  Wilkerson (a big guy) held a grudge about that incident.

They were no longer in the club, but were at a MC event in NC. Maddox went into the bathroom and Wilkerson followed him to beat him up (had him down was choking him). Others pulled Wilkerson off.

Later there was a second attack by Wilkerson (and one account said Wilkerson's wife was also involved kicking Maddox).  Anyway, others pulled Wilkerson off again.  

Maddox then went to the parking lot to his MC to leave the event. Wilkerson again attacked Maddox, Maddox saw him coming and got his gun out of the bag on his MC and shot him (think was a 44). Wilkerson still managed to attack him and they were together on the ground rolling around,  Maddox shot him two more times. 

Police arrived and arrested Maddox. Prosecutor pressed charges and did not do a thorough investigation (talk to witnesses, etc.). Maddox also made a mistake by doing a long interview with the police (like 3 hours). He had some errors in his interview. 

There were various reports and interviews (some on U-Tube, one of those was by Maddox discussing the impact on his life 92 years worth. lost his job, etc.).  One review of the incident and what CCWsafe did is by Don West (CCWSafe National Trial Council) on U-Tube.

 I would want him to have actually have successfully defended some shooting cases. Wouldn’t you?

I wouldn't necessarily, one can certainly have knowledge about the law and offer legal defense strategy (advice) in a Self Defense case (especially a person that has spent his career studying and educating on Self Defense Laws and worked with the lawyers involved in a Self Defense case). 

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