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DaveTN

Pistols and SBR’s??

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I bought a pistol complete lower and put a 10.5 inch upper on it. To make an AR Pistol. I didn’t put a brace on it. According to the BATF that is legal; at least TODAY that is legal.

So my question is this: Unless you buy it new how do you know it’s a pistol lower? I bought mine new so I had the paperwork.  But I see plenty for sale used or that people built. Its my understanding that if it ever was a rifle; it can't be a pistol without being NFA SBR?? If someone just threw a SB upper on their old POS AR Rifle lower and sold it as a “Pistol”; how would you know? Or more importantly how would cops know if they stopped you and found it? Would it matter?

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5 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I bought a pistol complete lower and put a 10.5 inch upper on it. To make an AR Pistol. I didn’t put a brace on it. According to the BATF that is legal; at least TODAY that is legal.

So my question is this: Unless you buy it new how do you know it’s a pistol lower? I bought mine new so I had the paperwork.  But I see plenty for sale used or that people built. Its my understanding that if it ever was a rifle; it can't be a pistol without being NFA SBR?? If someone just threw a SB upper on their old POS AR Rifle lower and sold it as a “Pistol”; how would you know? Or more importantly how would cops know if they stopped you and found it? Would it matter?

The fact is, for the average gun owner there is really no way to know for sure.  Most if not all stripped lowers are sold as other, and not pistol or rifle, so unless the original owner assembled it into a rifle, took and posted pictures of it, with SN showing, then there is no way for the ATF to know either.  All my lowers get assembled into pistols first, and documented, just for S&G, even if they will be made into rifles for the remaining time I own them.

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37 minutes ago, Omega said:

The fact is, for the average gun owner there is really no way to know for sure.  Most if not all stripped lowers are sold as other, and not pistol or rifle, so unless the original owner assembled it into a rifle, took and posted pictures of it, with SN showing, then there is no way for the ATF to know either.  All my lowers get assembled into pistols first, and documented, just for S&G, even if they will be made into rifles for the remaining time I own them.

How do you handle the "documentation"? Just personal records and pics?

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3 minutes ago, hipower said:

How do you handle the "documentation"? Just personal records and pics?

Yea, just took a picture w/timestamp.  I never plan on using the pics, since if confronted it is they that must prove one way or another, but it may make good evidence in a wrongful/malicious prosecution case.

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Just now, Omega said:

Yea, just took a picture w/timestamp.  I never plan on using the pics, since if confronted it is they that must prove one way or another, but it may make good evidence in a wrongful/malicious prosecution case.

Thanks. That's been my method for quite a few years for personal inventory, but I must admit I have been a bit lax lately in keeping up with it. A few sales, trades, and acquisitions behind.

Even deals here, I try to note who and when I deal with. Not necessarily name and address. More like screen name and date of deal with some details for my poor memory.

Although I've bought far more here than I've sold here, I believe it to be a good practice.

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Virtually impossible for the powers that be to prove one way or the other whether a receiver that was sold to an individual as a stripped receiver was first assembled as a pistol or a rifle..... 

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34 minutes ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

Virtually impossible for the powers that be to prove one way or the other whether a receiver that was sold to an individual as a stripped receiver was first assembled as a pistol or a rifle..... 

Right, but if someone sells an AR as a pistol, that has a lower from a rifle they had laying around, wouldn’t it be pretty easy to tell from the serial number; if it became an issue? And if it became an issue; wouldn’t it be a felony?

I’m thinking about the guy in Sumner Country where someone in his car (not him, but a passenger; I think) had cocaine, and he (Driver) had a PLR-16. If I remember correctly, he ended up with a plea bargain that involved him either having to forfeit the gun or get rid of the gun. Point being; if they are going after you for something else would it not be a free felony to pile on top of whatever they had you on?

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If it has been sold as a rifle at retail or wholesale then that can be found by ATF doing a trace. If it was a stripped lower sold to an individual at retail as a "frame" then it would be virtually impossible to prove one way or the other what it had been built as first.

A Colt (or Bushmaster or whoever) rifle (or a complete lower that left the factory with a stock) that is disassembled and rebuilt as a pistol is not kosher largely because the factory has a record of it being a rifle when it was sold to the wholesaler. A stripped lower from say Anderson (or Innovative Technology or whoever)  was just that......a stripped lower and there is no way to prove what Citizen X built with it first. 

Edited by Cruel Hand Luke

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18 minutes ago, Cruel Hand Luke said:

A Colt (or Bushmaster or whoever) rifle (or a complete lower that left the factory with a stock) that is disassembled and rebuilt as a pistol is not kosher largely because the factory has a record of it being a rifle when it was sold to the wholesaler. 

That was why I bought new and not used. “It was sold to me as a pistol” isn’t going to cut it. I just think people should be aware of that. That’s a heavy charge.

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