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DaveTN

[M&P Fueled] Ed Brown and changes in the gun industry

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This is pretty cool. I don’t shoot competitively anymore, so I can’t justify the cost of one of these, but to me they are an excellent example of the shift in gun making.

There is very little old school conventional “Gunsmithing” going on at Ed Brown. But there is a lot of high performance, high accuracy machining by quality Machinists, Programmers, and QA inspectors.

I’ve spent my life in manufacturing. I’ve heard it all like “Things aren’t made as good as in the old days”, something must be right because “It is CNC machined” or something is special because it was “Designed in CAD”. I just smile when I see these kinds of statements.

Truth is, we have far surpassed any that could be done quality wise in “the old days”. Unless someone is doing “One off” protype work or working in their garage; most everything is “CNC Machined”. And everything is “Designed in CAD”.

Does that mean everything today is better than it was in the past? Absolutely not. These technologies still rely on the Machinists and the programmers (many times the same person) using them. CNC machines can make junk, and they can make it fast. These CNC machines only do what they programmer tells them to do. If he programs the part wrong; the machine will make it wrong. CNC machines are high drama. They require Machinists and Programmers that are on top of every little detail, every single minute. They require inspectors that are checking all critical dimensions, all the time.

If you have high accuracy, quality machines, and you have the best Machinists and Programmers. You can make extremely accurate parts that don’t require any hand fitting; they fit together to extremely tight tolerances and work every time. In 1992 Ed Brown quit gunsmithing and went strictly design and manufacture. He retired at 65 and turned the business over to his family. With what he put in place; it can carry on.

So, what does this mean to you? Well, it means you can buy a high-quality competition for gun for $2K instead of 10K. It also means if you need a replacement part, it can be shipped to you and dropped in without requiring a gunsmith.

Sorry for the trip down memory lane, this isn't something new, but when I saw this; I saw a good example of a positive change with people involved that are dedicated to quality. I don’t own one of these guns, but I’d sure like to; I bet they are really something.

Why doesn’t Smith & Wesson or Glock or anyone else do this? Because then they can’t sell their guns for $300-$400. But change is happening on a daily basis; someday they will.

https://www.edbrown.com/fueled-series/

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Edited by DaveTN
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Great post!

With the proliferation of RMR in both the competitive and EDC worlds, isn't CAD design and CNC machining almost required?

Lightening slides and adding (or subtracting) weight while timing is still reliable isnt quite like sending a stock revolver or 1911 to the custom shop.

Like Dave mentioned, perfectly cut parts and pieces that don't require a gunsmith to fit allows a competent DIY'er to improve it or creates affordable "from-the-factory" semi custom pistols.

Edited by A.J. Holst

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I was not aware these existed. I’ve long wanted to do a Gucci M&P, and this check almost 100% of the check marks. The only thing I’m not a fan of is the relief cuts in the slide. I’m just not a fan of those in general. 

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4 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I was not aware these existed. I’ve long wanted to do a Gucci M&P, and this check almost 100% of the check marks. The only thing I’m not a fan of is the relief cuts in the slide. I’m just not a fan of those in general. 

So tell them to leave them out.

Quote

 

What if I want some custom handgun options – can you accommodate my requests?

Absolutely…we have always been a custom shop and remain true to our roots. With over 100 custom options available, you can truly have it your way, and create a one-of-a-kind handgun. See our Build page to create your own custom firearm, get instant pricing, delivery estimate, and submit the order online to our sales staff for quotation and consultation.

In addition to all the options, extensive personalization is available on our in-house laser engraving machine, whether it be custom text, fonts, etc. If you already own an Ed Brown, and are considering more custom options to be added to your pistol, we can do that as well, see our Basic Service Package for details.

Please note, due to California regulations, no options or changes are possible to California models BEFORE they leave our factory. AFTER the California dealer has transferred the firearm to you, you may return it to us via our Basic Service Package for changes if you wish.

 

Now get that wallet out....

 

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Thank you sir, good read. I like old and new but these days it takes something different it seems to tickle the old fancy. The 1894 Marlin lever with a threaded barrel is the latest, a little old that will take something new.

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As a pretty serious competitive shooter, I submit that most shooters can put $200 worth of work/parts into their stock Glock or M&P and use the $1200-1800 they saved by not buying one of these EB guns on practice ammo and be much better off.  A $2500 M&P?  I'll take a 2011 if I'm throwing around that kind of money for one gun.  

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14 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

I was not aware these existed. I’ve long wanted to do a Gucci M&P, and this check almost 100% of the check marks. The only thing I’m not a fan of is the relief cuts in the slide. I’m just not a fan of those in general. 

https://www.dpcustomworksllc.com/

:)

 

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1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

You’re an enabler, you know that, right?

Give them a week and I can almost guarantee Doug will have a significant discount % code listed on his website and social media.  He tends to run 20-40% off around holidays.  :)

PS:  Check out the G45 thread I just posted for some of his work.  :D

 

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2 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

You’re an enabler, you know that, right?

He's a terrible influence.

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20 hours ago, deerslayer said:

..... I submit that most shooters can put $200 worth of work/parts into their stock Glock or M&P and use the $1200-1800 they saved by not buying one of these EB guns....

Wise words sir.

With the pimped Glock niche well covered, this make sense from a profit center perspective with a good performing inexpensive gun to build from. No doubt some outstanding margins. But hard to see the value even with all the marketing lingo. 

The M&P is a great platform, and shoots above its price class out of the box. S&W does a great job keeping tolerences at minimums for the most part. Fortunately they offer some of their own hot rod parts thru the performance center, sans unnecessary farkles for those that may prefer more of a  function over form approach.

I will offer my route to get a full size pseudo race M&P 2.0 at a fraction of the cost with a spare topend for other duty on the weekend

Start with one M&P 2.0 4.25 threaded barrel #11770 ($405 from Grab-a-gun at the time), add a S&W Performance center ported slide kit, ported stainless barrel w/ 11 degree target crown, RMR cut and lightening holes / ports @ $338. Put them together with the M&P 1.0 slide lock (some filing to fit) to run the CORE slide on 2.0.  Add your fancy trigger of choice ($110 to $175 depending on your preferences).....

You get a great running accurate RMR pistol with less muzzle flip, accurate with boat loads of cash left over. Plus you get an extra top end for other duty as needed. Best of all....you never have to worry about dealing with EB customer service!

I appreciate some folks want to support American based companies. But I urge you to research and consider recent experiences. Those for EB appear to lead one to believe they are more the profits of recent vintage. The name may be the same, but service and end product may not be, CNC machines or no. 

The important concept not covered that to me is now that says more about a company, as it reflects their leadership values and priorities, is how they deal with customers.

The tell tale for me is they have shut down all phone communications. The ONLY way to deal with them is via email and its marginal with poor support from just dealing with something as simple as their 1911 magazines. They did not even know 1911 mag specs (my last batch had 4 of 12 out of spec). Ironic for a company who built their rep on 1911's !! 

 

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Edited by Erich

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