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ohnoitskamryn

legal sign

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Hello, new to this forum and new to concealed carry. Live in Nashville.

So I know the requirements for the new "No Firearm allowed signs"  have to include  "as authorized by tca  39-17-1359" etc. I have seen a few establishments that have a small 3-4 inch sign with the gun and a red circle slash through it. This is obviously an older sign on the door and doesn't necessarily meet the requirements by state law. Would this be an acceptable place to carry since the sign "technically" isn't legal? 

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1.  You know the owner's position...….shop elsewhere

2.  Not a legal posting, doubtful charges would be placed, but could be.  Be prepared to spend money for attorney and possible defense should you choose to carry.

3.  Concealed means concealed.  If you are 'discovered', don't be an ass, return gun to car or simply leave; refer to #1.

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1 hour ago, CrimsonClover said:

I'd like to know more about this also, from the legal point of view. Opinions are no help.

Then all you have to do is read the law. Here it is... This is not an opinion.

Quote

 

39-17-1359. Prohibition at certain meetings — Posted notice — Handgun carry permit holder. [Effective on January 1, 2020. See the version effective until January 1, 2020.]

(a) 
(1) Except as provided in § 39-17-1313, an individual, corporation, business entity, or local, state, or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to:
(A) Prohibit the possession of weapons by any person who is at a meeting conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity, or government entity; or
(B) Restrict the possession of weapons by any person who is at a meeting conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity, or government entity by allowing a handgun to be carried in a concealed manner only by persons authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351 or § 39-17-1366.
(2) The prohibition in subdivision (a)(1) shall apply to any person who is authorized to carry a firearm by authority of § 39-17-1351 or § 39-17-1366.

(b) 
(1) Notice of the prohibition or restriction permitted by subsection (a) shall be accomplished by displaying the notice described in subdivision (b)(3) in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited or restricted. The notice shall be plainly visible to the average person entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.
(2) The notice required by this section shall be in English, but a duplicate notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers, or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited or restricted.
(3) 
(A) A sign shall be used as the method of posting.
(B) 
(i) A sign prohibiting possession in accordance with subdivision (a)(1)(A) shall include the phrase “NO FIREARMS ALLOWED”, and the phrase shall measure at least one inch (1″) high and eight inches (8″) wide. The sign shall also include the phrase “As authorized by T.C.A. § 39-17-1359”.
(ii) The sign shall include a pictorial representation of the phrase “NO FIREARMS ALLOWED” that shall include a circle with a diagonal line through the circle and an image of a firearm inside the circle under the diagonal line. The entire pictorial representation shall be at least four inches (4″) high and four inches (4″) wide. The diagonal line shall be at a forty-five degree (45°) angle from the upper left to the lower right side of the circle.
(C) 
(i) A sign restricting possession in accordance with subdivision (a)(1)(B) shall include the phrase “CONCEALED FIREARMS BY PERMIT ONLY”, and the phrase shall measure at least one inch (1″) high and eight inches (8″) wide. The sign shall also include the phrase “As authorized by T.C.A. §§ 39-17-1351, 39-17-1359, and 39-17-1366”.
(ii) The sign shall include a pictorial representation of the phrase “CONCEALED FIREARMS BY PERMIT ONLY” that shall include a circle with a diagonal line through the circle and an image of a firearm inside the circle. The entire pictorial representation shall be at least four inches (4″) high and four inches (4″) wide. The diagonal line shall be at a forty five degree (45°) angle from the upper left to the lower right side of the circle.
(4) An individual, corporation, business entity, or government entity that, as of January 1, 2018, used signs to provide notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall have until January 1, 2019, to replace existing signs with signs that meet the requirements of subdivision (b)(3).

(c) 
(1) It is an offense to possess a weapon in a building or on property that is properly posted in accordance with this section.
(2) Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500).

(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property.

(e) This section shall not apply to title 70 regarding wildlife laws, rules and regulations.

(f) Except as provided in subsection (g), this section shall not apply to the grounds of any public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof. The carrying of firearms in those areas shall be governed by § 39-17-1311.

(g) 
(1) Except as provided in subdivision (g)(2), nothing in this section shall authorize an entity of local government or a permittee thereof to enact or enforce a prohibition or restriction on the possession of a handgun by an enhanced handgun carry permit holder or concealed handgun carry permit holder on property owned or administered by the entity unless the following are provided at each public entrance to the property:
(A) Metal detection devices;
(B) At least one (1) law enforcement or private security officer who has been adequately trained to conduct inspections of persons entering the property by use of metal detection devices; and
(C) That each person who enters the property through the public entrance when the property is open to the public and any bag, package, and other container carried by the person is inspected by a law enforcement or private security officer described in subdivision (g)(1)(B) or an authorized representative with the authority to deny entry to the property.
(2) Subdivision (g)(1) does not apply to:
(A) Facilities that are licensed under title 33, 37, or 68;
(B) Property on which firearms are prohibited by § 39-17-1309 or § 39-17-1311(b)(1)(H)(ii);
(C) Property on which firearms are prohibited by § 39-17-1306 at all times regardless of whether judicial proceedings are in progress;
(D) Buildings that contain a law enforcement agency, as defined in § 39-13-519;
(E) Libraries; or
(F) Facilities that are licensed by the department of human services, under title 71, chapter 3, part 5, and administer a Head Start program.


History


Acts 1996, ch. 905, § 11; 2000, ch. 929, § 1; 2009, ch. 428, § 4; 2010, ch. 1009, § 3; 2013, ch. 16, § 2; 2016, ch. 638, § 1; 2017, ch. 467, §§ 3, 4; 2018, ch. 823, §§ 1-4; 2019, ch. 479, §§ 10-12.


TENNESSEE CODE ANNOTATED
Copyright © 2020 by The State of Tennessee All rights reserved

 

A lot of time is spent on this. As far as we know, no one has been charged with it. If the Police become involved they usually (from what we have seen) give the person a trespass warning. But that is not required. How the gun became an issue is probably more telling than the fact of mere possession if a citation was issued.

This is a fine only offense; it's $500. Some folks believe that because this is a misdemeanor offense; you could lose your HCP over this. I’m not one of those folks, but anything is possible, depending on how you handle it.

This “New” sign law merely makes it clear to those having problems with the “old” sign law that they can’t carry if property is posted. It makes it clear to the property owner the specifics of what the sign must have on it.

But those are just my opinions. :)

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Went to the Nashville Zoo to see Zoolumination and their site clearly stated “no weapons”or even plastic straws. I never came across a no firearms sign while I was there and saw plenty of killer straws. 

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Been visiting in and out of Sarah Cannon the last month or so. Sign says No Unauthorized Weapons and No Smoking On the Hospital Campus. My defense was going to either be that it gave no info on how to authorize them or use the fact that I could not clearly see the sign due to all of the cigarette smoke from people smoking in front of the entrance. 

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9 hours ago, CrimsonClover said:

I'd like to know more about this also, from the legal point of view. Opinions are no help.

Legal point=legal opinion 

many of the laws have not been fully tested, ie, court precedent.  

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