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Swang

2020 year of the Red dot?

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Seems like 2020 may be the year of the RMR. Seeing a lot of new guns pre-milled. Never been a RMR guy but this may create an interest now that I won’t need to get it milled and recoated. Just curious if RMRs are all standardized hole patterns and footprints though...

Edited by Swang
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RMR is the name of the trijicon pistol sized red dot, the nomenclature gets a little fuzzy as RMR is used frequently for any pistol sized red dot.  The hole patterns and footprints are standard-ish with a lot of dot manufacturers using the trijicon RMR footprint as their pattern.  Some  firearm manufacturers are going the plate route and offering plates that the user switches to accept multiple dot configurations. I know vortex, leupold, and trijicon are probably the most common footprints out there for full size pistols.

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1 hour ago, Swang said:

Seems like 2020 may be the year of the RMR. Seeing a lot of new guns pre-milled. Never been a RMR guy but this may create an interest now that I won’t need to get it milled and recoated. Just curious if RMRs are all standardized hole patterns and footprints though...

There are variances, depending on the sight and the gun.  Just ask before you buy to make sure.

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I agree that they are growing in popularity.  In fact, I just got my Glock 20 (10 mm) back from getting it billed for the Trijicon.  I also added a KKM barrel, 20 lb recoil spring, steel rod and a 3.5 lb trigger connector.  Last Saturday was first time to shoot it and while it is different than iron sights, I can tell I am really gonna like it.

Mark

Glock 20 b.jpg

Glock 20 c.jpg

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On 2/3/2020 at 11:08 AM, FrankD said:

RMR is the name of the trijicon pistol sized red dot, the nomenclature gets a little fuzzy as RMR is used frequently for any pistol sized red dot.  

My understanding is that the RMR came from Ruggedized Miniature Reflex so yes, RMR can be correctly applied to any red dot of this style.   Kinda like Band-aid and Kleenex.  :)

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On 2/6/2020 at 4:46 AM, Trekbike said:

My understanding is that the RMR came from Ruggedized Miniature Reflex so yes, RMR can be correctly applied to any red dot of this style.   Kinda like Band-aid and Kleenex.  :)

Yeah, that’s wrong too.  Those are also brands, not products.  The RMR is a Trijicon optic.

I’ve been shooting in matches with red dots for about 5 years and I was a late adopter compared to my buddies.  I bought and sold 3 with RMRs before falling in love with the Roland Special with a Leupold DPP Pro.

If anything, it’s going to be the year of Holosun.  They are doing some innovative stuff. 

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1 hour ago, asu174 said:

Yeah, that’s wrong too.  Those are also brands, not products.  The RMR is a Trijicon optic.

You missed my point.    My use of the word "correctly" wasn't probably the best choice.    I'll try to clarify the point I was trying to make.

Yes, Trijicon has a registered trademark for RMR, which stands for Ruggedized Miniature Reflex.    Holosun which you referenced, makes similar optics which they are not allowed to call it an RMR due to the trademark, so they call it an Open Reflex Sight which is a generic term.    Is the Holosun rugged, yes.   Is it a miniature size, yes.    Is it a reflex optic, yes.     I hear and see others use the term RMR generically to refer to this type of optic.    Is it correct, no.     But the same thing happens all the time with other products.   I used Band-Aid and Kleenex as examples of the most widely used terms for an adhesive bandage and a tissue.    Is that correct, no but people use it none the less.    

Back to RMR, to me that's the quickest way for people to identify what type of "red dot" is being referenced rather than an open reflex optic or a "tubular" type red dot.     Just like the OP's title and lead post using the term RMR.   It's just convenient.     That's all I was trying to say.   

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Trekbike said:

You missed my point.    My use of the word "correctly" wasn't probably the best choice.    I'll try to clarify the point I was trying to make.

Yes, Trijicon has a registered trademark for RMR, which stands for Ruggedized Miniature Reflex.    Holosun which you referenced, makes similar optics which they are not allowed to call it an RMR due to the trademark, so they call it an Open Reflex Sight which is a generic term.    Is the Holosun rugged, yes.   Is it a miniature size, yes.    Is it a reflex optic, yes.     I hear and see others use the term RMR generically to refer to this type of optic.    Is it correct, no.     But the same thing happens all the time with other products.   I used Band-Aid and Kleenex as examples of the most widely used terms for an adhesive bandage and a tissue.    Is that correct, no but people use it none the less.    

Back to RMR, to me that's the quickest way for people to identify what type of "red dot" is being referenced rather than an open reflex optic or a "tubular" type red dot.     Just like the OP's title and lead post using the term RMR.   It's just convenient.     That's all I was trying to say.   

 

 


 

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On 2/5/2020 at 6:01 PM, Choatecav said:

I agree that they are growing in popularity.  In fact, I just got my Glock 20 (10 mm) back from getting it billed for the Trijicon.  I also added a KKM barrel, 20 lb recoil spring, steel rod and a 3.5 lb trigger connector.  Last Saturday was first time to shoot it and while it is different than iron sights, I can tell I am really gonna like it.

Mark

Glock 20 b.jpg

Glock 20 c.jpg

Who did the milling work for you? Getting interested in this again, and would like to see if it's easier than just buying a pistol with a pre-milled plate. The cost difference is probably quite a bit I'd think.

A thought occurred to me after I did the original post. 

What are your thoughts on slide length for rmr pistols? I would think I would like something G19/43x size, but the old idea of longer slide/longer, better sight radius and picture comes to mind.

Edited by hipower

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And my point is that the generic use of RMR is a new thing and completely incorrect.  This “everything is an RMR” trend started in the past year and makes no sense. 

Give your theory to a shop manager who receives orders all the time for “RMR cut” and then later finds out it’s for another optic with a different pattern.  

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We’ll argue about anything here. Even when its meaningless. :)

Having said that, the proper term is “Red Dot”. It’s not my problem if a user is confused on whether or not it’s a reflex, prismatic or holographic sights. If he needs to know or needs clarification; he can either do his research or ask.

I use the term red dot when discussing these optics; so it must be right.

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2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

We’ll argue about anything here. Even when its meaningless. :)

I'd rather discuss the proper vs general populas usage of a term than the 2020 election.   I'm so done with the with politics right now an RMR discussion is refreshing.   :)

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3 hours ago, DaveTN said:

We’ll argue about anything here. Even when its meaningless. :)

Having said that, the proper term is “Red Dot”. It’s not my problem if a user is confused on whether or not it’s a reflex, prismatic or holographic sights. If he needs to know or needs clarification; he can either do his research or ask.

I use the term red dot when discussing these optics; so it must be right.

 

11 minutes ago, Trekbike said:

I'd rather discuss the proper vs general populas usage of a term than the 2020 election.   I'm so done with the with politics right now an RMR discussion is refreshing.   :)

LOL! 😏    As Steve Harvey says... "Good Answer!"

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On 2/3/2020 at 11:03 AM, Swang said:

Seeing a lot of new guns pre-milled.

It was a thing before I got super into guns beyond just having a few, but I think the pre-milling is akin to when pistols started getting the undersides done up for attaching lights.  Kind of a put it there, because it won't deter many people who are agnostic to the accessory, but not having one will let a person wanting to mount something to pass up that particular gun.

That said, I do think red dot (or RMR since they're the best ones out there) mounts on pistols are going to become more and more mainstream....I just think it'll take some kind of widespread military adaption to get the ball into an avalanche.

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My Walther PPS M2 w/ RSMc  9mm

 

437780018_PPSM2RMS.jpg.b4f9394e83ecf29cfa6605867f335546.jpg

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Bottom line we all know what we are describing...  I still and will always use channel locks and dikes.

picked up a Trijicon,  3.25 MOA, DeltaPoint is 2.5 and not widely available s the Trijicon. Guess the bigger “window” is preferred.

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On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 11:28 PM, hipower said:

Who did the milling work for you? Getting interested in this again, and would like to see if it's easier than just buying a pistol with a pre-milled plate. The cost difference is probably quite a bit I'd think.

A thought occurred to me after I did the original post. 

What are your thoughts on slide length for rmr pistols? I would think I would like something G19/43x size, but the old idea of longer slide/longer, better sight radius and picture comes to mind.

Sorry Hipower that I am slow getting back in touch.  Life can get in the way of fun, occasionally, ha.

All of the slide milling and work was done by Mr. Keegan Singleton of Competitive Shooting Solutions, LLC., in Anniston, AL.  (256-290-4150)  ksingltn@gmail.com

Keegan does custom work for many of the professional shooters on the circuit today and is very pleasant to work with.  I wholeheartedly endorse him for any work.

regards,

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26 minutes ago, Choatecav said:

Sorry Hipower that I am slow getting back in touch.  Life can get in the way of fun, occasionally, ha.

All of the slide milling and work was done by Mr. Keegan Singleton of Competitive Shooting Solutions, LLC., in Anniston, AL.  (256-290-4150)  ksingltn@gmail.com

Keegan does custom work for many of the professional shooters on the circuit today and is very pleasant to work with.  I wholeheartedly endorse him for any work.

regards,

Thank you, Choatecav. As many have said...life is what happens while you are making plans(for something else). I've had many things change while I was living life. 

I was wondering if it had been anyone local. But Mr. Singleton is a name I at least have heard of. Have to decide what I'd like to have done. Glock 19, 43x, or maybe my Shield.

I have a Canik that is ready for a rmr,so maybe should start there. 

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I have used red dots for years, a couple of things.

First and foremost red dots require much more practice than conventional sights, while they initially make life seem easy they take longer to master.

having your slide milled will get you a better result than the MOS/whatever everyone else calls their plate system... Milled slide the red dot will sit lower and will cowitness better than a plate.  Milled into the slide is a WORLD stronger than the plate system.

 

I own pretty much all of the major red dot sights for pistols that arent just pure trash, the Trijicon RMR you get what you pay for its very very robust and built for the apoclypse.  The Holosun 507c is almost as good though and for a defensive carry pistol I prefer it with its eotech style reticle (palmetto state had them around $210 also)..

 

My deltapoint pro was nice for the huge window but very meh for everything else, the vortex venom is nice for a range toy but wouldnt consider for a carry solution.

 

Look into the Shadow Systems MR920 mounting solution to be the future I fully expect this great little company to get bought out or at least their patent.  I have two of their Gucci GLocks and a MR920 on the way.. It's what the glock should have evolved into if they had built on their design instead of just rolling out the same thing over and over.

 

https://shadowsystemscorp.com/mr920/

 

strongest mount in the game and its almost universal.

 

For us that are mil/vet/LE they have an amazing discount on expertvoice that puts the price of their stuff at not much more than a standard glock....

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I tried a red dot for the first time at the range not long ago,it takes some getting used too because that dot is always moving . I was better with my typical sights than a red dot but I see the tech appeal  - 

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SCCY has a model with a Crimson Trace red dot with a MSRP of $330. Of course they did since I just bought a SCCY to try out in October. 🙃

I haven’t tried it out yet, but I did clean it today so its ready for a range trip.

Here’s info on the SCCY with the Red Dot they waited until I submitted my order on the old model to release.

https://www.sccy.com/handguns/cpx-1rd/

They also have a striker fired model coming, the DVG-1, also available with the crimson trace. 

https://www.sccy.com/handguns/dvg/

 

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I'm not a fan of them . My workplace just put them on our rifles last year and supposedly we are getting them on our Glock 17's. I just like good ole fashioned sights. I dont like having to look through a small window as it makes it harder to concentrate for me. 

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On 2/11/2020 at 6:28 PM, Choatecav said:

Sorry Hipower that I am slow getting back in touch.  Life can get in the way of fun, occasionally, ha.

All of the slide milling and work was done by Mr. Keegan Singleton of Competitive Shooting Solutions, LLC., in Anniston, AL.  (256-290-4150)  ksingltn@gmail.com

Keegan does custom work for many of the professional shooters on the circuit today and is very pleasant to work with.  I wholeheartedly endorse him for any work.

regards,

I regularly shoot with Keegan’s brother and have seen his work.  It’s top notch. 

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Thanks guys. I'll have to save a few pennies before having anything done, but I guess that will be my first choice.

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