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Can the government really shut down my business and make me stay at home?

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I'm done being public for a while. Except for my afternoon walk with the dog. 

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3 hours ago, Garufa said:

We really, really need to figure out a way to get large-scale manufacturing of even the most mundane, taken for granted goods back into this country.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, leroy said:

Let's let this little thunderstorm pass and get everybody back to work, or there will be real trouble.  This state is a powder keg, and I think Lee just murdered himself politically..

Good to see you post again.

As for Lee, I just don't see what other option he had. Option 1, he asks people to stay home and isolate. We know people are already ignoring this and not taking it seriously. Option 2, he makes us. He had a few thousand doctors begging him to shut it down.

Let's say he does nothing and all hell breaks loose here. Thousands of people die and the hospitals are overwhelmed. 

I really don't know what else he could have done. This is a no win situation.

Edited by Erik88
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Posted (edited)

Eric...

Thanks Brother... " I agree with the damned either way " observation. 

That bein said, politics n leadership aint about listening to howlers n experts... Things are all over the place with this, the doomday sayers will always say they are right, because there is no way to measure success here.   Lee would have been far better off politically here to leave the handling of this to the individual counties and to resist these " experts " no matter the flavor. 

I live in east tennessee, and i see only individuals n family members walking their kids in groups as big as the family, and that aint ever more than 4 or 5.   Folks are stayin away from eachother, and businesses i go into are followin the guidelines judiciously.

I think it is ridiculous and, frankly breathtakingly stupid to equate traffic increases to " distancing noncompliance ".  Tennessee is a " pass thru state ", there is aways traffic.   Families that have parents at home or are off from work are gettin in their vehicles and are riding around to keep themselves and their kiddos sane.   I travel around quite a bit in my area, and traffic after about 7:30 pm is light.  There is simply nowhere to go.

Most folks that are travelin during the day are " esential " , while others are parents and individuals who are worried and wonderin what this is really about, and that's a bad thing.   

 Nothing like this has been ordered since Civil War reconstruction, and everybody i know is mad as hell over it, includin me.   East Tennessee is a republican bastion, and always has been.  Middle and west tennessee vascillate back n forth.  The indiginous natives here wont forgive this, no matter how well intended.  Its lookin more n more like ole Randy wuz the man for the job. 

Folks are edgy about their jobs, homes, future, etc, and now they have time on their hands to note the delta between the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and these " Executive Orders "  and they aint likin it...  I think this will come together with a vengence on election day and finish Lee im thinkin -- i wouldnt be a bit suprized to see him primaried. 

This needs to end and soon.

leroy

Edited by leroy
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12 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Good to see you post again.

As for Lee, I just don't see what other option he had. Option 1, he asks people to stay home and isolate. We know people are already ignoring this and not taking it seriously. Option 2, he makes us. He had a few thousand doctors begging him to shut it down.

Let's say he does nothing and all hell breaks loose here. Thousands of people die and the hospitals are overwhelmed. 

I really don't know what else he could have done. This is a no win situation.

The same governor who ordered us to all stay home requires me to go to work every day. Funny how that works, no?

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41 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

The same governor who ordered us to all stay home requires me to go to work every day. Funny how that works, no?

No one is forcing you to work unless maybe you're in the military.

Bill

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40 minutes ago, BCR#1 said:

No one is forcing you to work unless maybe you're in the military.

Bill

You are correct, sir. It's just that the wife and kids have grown accustomed to eating.

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1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

The same governor who ordered us to all stay home requires me to go to work every day. Funny how that works, no?

I hear ya. You're not able to do your job from home I assume? 

My wife and I are both "essential" but we're able to work from home.

I'll say this, I know Lee's actions seem extreme to many but there are currently only 8 states not on some sort of madate to stay home.  Lee actually waited a lot longer than many. At one point this week we had the 10th highest rate of new COVID cases per day so I'm guessing that caught their attention.

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People that make product needed by us all can’t do it from home. People that can work from home aren’t the answer for manufacturing. I can work from home and did so before this happened, but I’m a CNC programmer. People must be on the shop floor to make product, or food. They are the ones that will be in harms way while we all sit around and watch. They are also going to need protective gear, the same protective gear they are saying is in short supply for Medical workers.

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Amazon workers walked off the job because they don’t have PPE. (They fired the guy that started it) They are trying to get others to do the same. They better be cranking up some factories to get this gear out.

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2 hours ago, Erik88 said:

I hear ya. You're not able to do your job from home I assume? 

My wife and I are both "essential" but we're able to work from home.

I'll say this, I know Lee's actions seem extreme to many but there are currently only 8 states not on some sort of madate to stay home.  Lee actually waited a lot longer than many. At one point this week we had the 10th highest rate of new COVID cases per day so I'm guessing that caught their attention.

Tough to build a road from home.

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5 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Tough to build a road from home.

Us truckers have been getting lots of kudos as of late because folks are realizing what they won’t have without us. I’d like to take this opportunity to say thanks to you and your fellow road crew. As we prepare to enter construction season, just want to wish you a safe one. I know that without you doing your job, I can’t do mine. Thanks. It’s appreciated, even if I might cuss about it now and then when y’all slow me to a crawl on a tight run. 😆

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5 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Us truckers have been getting lots of kudos as of late because folks are realizing what they won’t have without us. I’d like to take this opportunity to say thanks to you and your fellow road crew. As we prepare to enter construction season, just want to wish you a safe one. I know that without you doing your job, I can’t do mine. Thanks. It’s appreciated, even if I might cuss about it now and then when y’all slow me to a crawl on a tight run. 😆

Truck Drivers and Road Construction Workers are kinda like Cops and Lawyers; they suck until you need them. 🙃

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10 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Us truckers have been getting lots of kudos as of late because folks are realizing what they won’t have without us. I’d like to take this opportunity to say thanks to you and your fellow road crew. As we prepare to enter construction season, just want to wish you a safe one. I know that without you doing your job, I can’t do mine. Thanks. It’s appreciated, even if I might cuss about it now and then when y’all slow me to a crawl on a tight run. 😆

Despite the orange barrel being the state flower, I expect you’ll agree that Tennessee has as good a highway system as anywhere you’ll go.

Oh yeah, thanks for hauling our stuff to market!

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3 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Despite the orange barrel being the state flower, I expect you’ll agree that Tennessee has as good a highway system as anywhere you’ll go.

Oh yeah, thanks for hauling our stuff to market!

TN absolutely has one of the best. If anybody wants to get a taste of just how good we have it in comparison, go visit Indiana or Louisiana. 

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1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

Despite the orange barrel being the state flower, I expect you’ll agree that Tennessee has as good a highway system as anywhere you’ll go.

I think Tennessee has as good a highway system as anyone. :up:

But they don’t know how to get an accident off the roadway. Matter of fact, they are probably the slowest in the entire nation.

But far be from me to complain without having a fix. So, if THP would like me to teach a class on how to clear a wreck off the roadway and get traffic moving again; I would be more than happy to share that knowledge.

:leaving:

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5 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Tough to build a road from home.

 

5 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Us truckers have been getting lots of kudos as of late because folks are realizing what they won’t have without us. I’d like to take this opportunity to say thanks to you and your fellow road crew. As we prepare to enter construction season, just want to wish you a safe one. I know that without you doing your job, I can’t do mine. Thanks. It’s appreciated, even if I might cuss about it now and then when y’all slow me to a crawl on a tight run. 😆

I read something the other day that’s stuck with me for a bit.

The essence of it was, “turns out Atlas can’t really shrug after all.” The rich, holed up in their enclaves - depend on the masses to bring them their groceries - and then fearfully wipe them down wondering if they might be infected.

A lot of us are lucky to be able to work remotely. I know I designed my firm that way. That’s a luxury.

But this whole system depends on people showing up and doing jobs that have to be done live and in person so to speak. In remember reading a few years ago that, “if you can’t find a dog, or a cat, or a snake doing you job in a Richard Scarry book, it might not be a real job.”

If anything, I think that’s why it’s critical for folks like me to do my part and stay home - so that people who can’t aren’t unnecessarily affected by my carelessness.

I hope that when this is all said and done that people will have a better appreciation for all the folks who keep the wheels on this economy. If I’m making wishes - I might wish that we find a way to decouple the 70-80% of our economy that depends on consumers continuing to buy stuff.

I appreciate you guys.  

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Posted (edited)
On 4/3/2020 at 5:41 PM, leroy said:

My take on all this is that " The Gadsden Flag " has come out and that everybody with any sense knows it... Everybody in gubt best leave the citizenry alone...

Lee has done his best to placate both sides in this and I'm betting LEO won't touch any individual citizenry enforcement... Take a look at the Knox County Sheriff's letter today, which i'll paraphrase "... We have been given leeway in enforcing this order.. ....I am confident that there won't be any need to enforce...  We're all in this together..."...Sheriff Spangler, the County Executive, and everybody else (... Even Lee, whom I'm greatly disappointed in and will not vote for again...) seems to understand this is dangerous on both ends...

Let's let this little thunderstorm pass and get everybody back to work, or there will be real trouble.  This state is a powder keg, and I think Lee just murdered himself politically...

leroy

My wife, who can be a real firecracker when she's pissed off, said yesterday as we talked..."Lee needs to find a set of balls and do what he was elected to do!"

This from a woman who really thought Bill Lee hung the moon and the stars during the pre-election days.

Edited by hipower
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2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

 

I read something the other day that’s stuck with me for a bit.

The essence of it was, “turns out Atlas can’t really shrug after all.” The rich, holed up in their enclaves - depend on the masses to bring them their groceries - and then fearfully wipe them down...

The "rich" are not Atlas.

The collective "Atlas", although comprised of some wealthy business owners, is most definitely not composed entirely of the rich. 

Hugh Akston, professor of philosophy who taught Francisco d'Anconia, Ragnar Danneskjold, and John Galt was himself not a rich man. John Galt was not a rich man. Composer Richard Halley wasn't a rich man. They are Atlas.

Sure,  there's the Dagny Taggarts of the world and the Francisco d'Anconias, but  for every 1 of them there are 100 Owen Kellogs and John Galts. The men and women of the mind, the proud producers, are composed of many folks who are neither rich nor business leaders.

Dagny's own brother, while equally rich was not a part of Atlas.

It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. In the same way,  its easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to be a part of Atlas. 

It's not about money, it's about morals.

As an aside, many Christians found much fault with Ayn Rand and her virtue of selfishness. The English language has simply attributed negative connotations to the word "selfish".  The virtue of selfishness is well aligned with many Biblical teachings, for example- For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

I mentioned early in this thread that Atlas was shrugging. When our Government uses a crisis to implement new anti-dog-eat-dog rules, such as demanding a new national database of hospital supplies on hand per institution, with the intentions of creating an ability for the government to "redistribute" those assets based on the needs of others, Atlas will shrug.

Sure, it may work to get us through the current crisis,  but when it's over Atlas will shrug off that business and find a better way to invest his time and resources in ventures that aren't as subject to government over-reach.

 

 

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On 4/3/2020 at 2:55 PM, btq96r said:

If anyone is in doubt as to the power of government in an emergency situation, just take a look at history.  We're very good at realizing something was wrong, or a step too far, but only a generation later when the danger of that moment has long past.  Not so much on prospects for your rights in the moment, however.

I'm sure Japanese Americans impacted by 1941 agree

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5 minutes ago, No_0ne said:

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Or an act of war...or a terrorist attack...or...

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Rant on....

I'm pissed about the government trampling our rights into dust by deciding who is essential and who isn't. They are destroying businesses, lives and so on. When crap likes this happens the government seldom if ever returns your rights as I see it.

That being said I'm disgusted by Americans that don't appear to have an ounce of common sense when it pertains to personal behavior. If people would do their job for example and not an bit more instead of doing stuff half -assed just think how wonderful the world could be.

People that have the "entitled" view of everything get on my last nerve. In reality one is entitled to very little but Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is among them.

The government in these trying times should provide us with the best information on protective equipment, facts about how it spreads/transmitted and so on. We have a Constitution and Bill of Rights to guide us but with society the way it is people are either stupid or lazy and seem to need government to make even the simplest of decisions for them. It's why half the people in the country think socialism is this wonderful damn thing.

Yes I'm old and yes I think personal responsibility for the most part is a thing of the past as I look at today's society. I am for now entitled to an opinion and apologize if I've offended anyone....well not really.

Rant off...

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4 hours ago, Grand Torino said:

Rant on....

I'm pissed about the government trampling our rights into dust by deciding who is essential and who isn't. They are destroying businesses, lives and so on. When crap likes this happens the government seldom if ever returns your rights as I see it.

That being said I'm disgusted by Americans that don't appear to have an ounce of common sense when it pertains to personal behavior. If people would do their job for example and not an bit more instead of doing stuff half -assed just think how wonderful the world could be.

People that have the "entitled" view of everything get on my last nerve. In reality one is entitled to very little but Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is among them.

The government in these trying times should provide us with the best information on protective equipment, facts about how it spreads/transmitted and so on. We have a Constitution and Bill of Rights to guide us but with society the way it is people are either stupid or lazy and seem to need government to make even the simplest of decisions for them. It's why half the people in the country think socialism is this wonderful damn thing.

Yes I'm old and yes I think personal responsibility for the most part is a thing of the past as I look at today's society. I am for now entitled to an opinion and apologize if I've offended anyone....well not really.

Rant off...

I vote for stupid and lazy.

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