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alleycat72

Tennessee hospital furloughs.

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27 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

Couple of things worth noting...

1. Several states' governors have ordered hospitals to stop doing elective surgeries during this outbreak, which empties out a surprising number of hospital beds, relieving the need for nurses, and stops a lot of income from flowing into the hospitals.  You can only keep staff with nothing to do paid for so long when money isn't coming into the business.  There are several reasons they are doing this, but one of the most logical is that you don't want elective (aka somewhat optional, or postponable) surgeries and after-care consuming personal protective equipment (PPE) when it is in drastically short supply and you know you're going to need every bit of it soon.

 

2. Many (most?) hospitals are sending patients home if they are well enough to recover at home, and aren't COVID-19 positive already.  Sepsis is already a leading cause of preventable death in many hospitals.  Think of COVID-19 exposure as another preventable cause.  You want to get the reaonably-heathy people OUT of the hospital if you're starting to fill it up with infected patients -- or expect you will soon.

Again, no patients for the moment means no money and idle, expensive clinical staff.

 

Right now the State is looking for furloughed medical staff to volunteer to assist at the temporary COVID-19 "hospitals" it is erecting in Nashville, Memphis, Chattanooga and Knoxville.  I would hope they turn this into a "for pay" arrangement.

 

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Wife mentioned something similar to this happening in the New England area, hospital staff being furloughed or laid off due to lack of patients.  My brother had his 2nd knee replacement done on 3/17/20, and doctor told him he was one of the last 3 he would probably do because of the C19 issue.

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8 hours ago, TGO David said:

 

Right now the State is looking for furloughed medical staff to volunteer to assist at the temporary COVID-19 "hospitals" it is erecting in Nashville, Memphis, Chattanooga and Knoxville.  I would hope they turn this into a "for pay" arrangement.

 

My wife and her coworkers fear it will be a " or we will take your nursing license " arrangement. 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

 

 

8 hours ago, TGO David said:

 

Right now the State is looking for furloughed medical staff to volunteer to assist at the temporary COVID-19 "hospitals" it is erecting in Nashville, Memphis, Chattanooga and Knoxville.  I would hope they turn this into a "for pay" arrangement.

 

29 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

My wife and her coworkers fear it will be a " or we will take your nursing license " arrangement. 

 

That would be a very bad mistake.    Uncompensated forced labor isn't very popular.   

Edited by Trekbike
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54 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

My wife and her coworkers fear it will be a " or we will take your nursing license " arrangement. 

Revoke their license for not working for free?  Good luck with that. 

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18 minutes ago, peejman said:

Revoke their license for not working for free?  Good luck with that. 

It probably wouldn't be "unpaid". They can revoke a nursing license if they don't stop at an unattended auto accident involving injuries. It's hard to prove and I don't know if it's ever been done or not, but it is an option. When the Wife got one of her 15 letters at the end of her name, she was advised not to put anything on her car that indicated she was in the medical field. That being said, one guy is alive because we stopped and one guy had been dead for a while. 

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I'm a registered nurse but not currently working in a clinical setting but always keep my license active.  I've considered going to my old hospital and at least being put on some sort of list to call back if needed but as previously stated, the hospitals are half full and staff being sent home because of nothing for them to do.  I read these articles about the governors of NY and NJ wanting the government to "draft" medical professionals and force them to come up there to help.  Well that is some 💩.  If the time and need arises I'll throw my scrubs back on and help out my community but they can have my license before I head to NY regardless of what the pay is.

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Nurses going on strike is a pretty real possibility right now.  That's another thread that could cause the whole thing to unravel if someone starts pulling it.  I've heard rumors that it's already happening.  I really hope not.

 

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15 hours ago, alleycat72 said:

Makes sense.  Hospitals have always been one of the best places to go if you want to be exposed to all kinds of germs, viruses and contagious diseases.  I probably need to have a carpal tunnel surgery done at sometime, but it can wait ...

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2 hours ago, TGO David said:

Nurses going on strike is a pretty real possibility right now.  That's another thread that could cause the whole thing to unravel if someone starts pulling it.  I've heard rumors that it's already happening.  I really hope not.

 

I have some hospitals in WI that the nurses are signing intent to unionize. 

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3 minutes ago, abusfullofnuns said:

I have some hospitals in WI that the nurses are signing intent to unionize. 

What do they think joining a union will do for them? 

That’s not an argument or disagreement it’s a question.

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1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

What do they think joining a union will do for them? 

That’s not an argument or disagreement it’s a question.

Strength in numbers.  It sounds like  most are upset about the lack of PPE, which I can understand.  But what doesn't make sense is it's not that the hospitals have it and won't issue it, or can get it and won't buy it.  The hospitals don't have enough and can't get more quick enough, so they're rationing it.

Back to the strength in numbers part, if an employee here or there refuses to work, an employer might be inclined to fire them.  If a large enough number walk out, it can shut down the business for a period of time - so the employer might capitulate.

You know how unions work, I'm just talking through it.

Again, this doesn't make sense because what the nurses want isn't anything that the hospitals really have control over.

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1 hour ago, TGO David said:

Strength in numbers.  It sounds like  most are upset about the lack of PPE, which I can understand.  But what doesn't make sense is it's not that the hospitals have it and won't issue it, or can get it and won't buy it.  The hospitals don't have enough and can't get more quick enough, so they're rationing it.

Back to the strength in numbers part, if an employee here or there refuses to work, an employer might be inclined to fire them.  If a large enough number walk out, it can shut down the business for a period of time - so the employer might capitulate.

You know how unions work, I'm just talking through it.

Again, this doesn't make sense because what the nurses want isn't anything that the hospitals really have control over.

I assumed it was either over lack of PPE, hours, or some nurses thinking they may be threatened with working or losing their license.

I don’t really see where unionizing helps any of those things. I doubt anyone will threaten them with losing their license if they don’t work. That would be crazy, and I doubt it would be enforceable. Knowing what I know about nurses, I suspect most are all working all the hours they can.

As you say hospitals don’t have control over PPE; other than to request what they need. That’s the big problem I see right now. The food processing industry and other essentials industries can’t keep going without that same protection. They are sending out emails daily notifying employees at my wife’s work of how many tested positive. They have told employees to stay home if they have a temperature. They don’t have proper masks, they just have nuisance masks, so they told them if they want to make their own, they will allow them to wear them on the floor. They are sharing on FaceBook how to fold bandannas into masks.

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Probably a dumb ?, but WHO has the license?  The nurse or the hospital.  The nurse is the one that spent hours and hours in school to learn/know almost as much, if not more than a doctor as that is their desire to do.  How can a hospital yank a nurse's license.  Bad referral for being a bad employee I see that, but what I read above seems a bit far fetched to me, but that's why I'm asking.  

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, jpx2rk said:

Probably a dumb ?, but WHO has the license?  The nurse or the hospital.  The nurse is the one that spent hours and hours in school to learn/know almost as much, if not more than a doctor as that is their desire to do.  How can a hospital yank a nurse's license.  Bad referral for being a bad employee I see that, but what I read above seems a bit far fetched to me, but that's why I'm asking.  

The board of nursing is responsible for pulling a license not a hospital. If a nurse is guilty of dereliction of duty they will pull their license. Refusing to help someone in need is dereliction of duty.  Think about a lawyer. They go to college and learn how to be a lawyer, but they must pass the Bar before practicing. They can also be disbarred for different reasons. Same thing can happen to me, but they call it black listing.

Edited by alleycat72
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22 minutes ago, jpx2rk said:

Probably a dumb ?, but WHO has the license?  The nurse or the hospital.  The nurse is the one that spent hours and hours in school to learn/know almost as much, if not more than a doctor as that is their desire to do.  How can a hospital yank a nurse's license.  Bad referral for being a bad employee I see that, but what I read above seems a bit far fetched to me, but that's why I'm asking.  

It wouldn’t be the nurse’s employer.  The fear is that the state or federal government would make the threat. 

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If the government can shut down businesses and you're okay with it.

If the government can force you to stay home and you're okay with it.

If the government can pull you over for no other reason than to ask you were you are going and you're okay with it.

If the government can fine or jail you for noncompliance and you're okay with it.

They can make you work or they will punish you for noncompliance and you'll be okay with it.

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41 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

If the government can shut down businesses and you're okay with it.

If the government can force you to stay home and you're okay with it.

If the government can pull you over for no other reason than to ask you were you are going and you're okay with it.

If the government can fine or jail you for noncompliance and you're okay with it.

They can make you work or they will punish you for noncompliance and you'll be okay with it.

Not sure I'm following your point of view based on the "you're okay with it" wording.   Just because folks aren't rioting in the streets right now over some of the current actions, doesn't mean folks are "okay with it".     

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1 hour ago, Trekbike said:

Not sure I'm following your point of view based on the "you're okay with it" wording.   Just because folks aren't rioting in the streets right now over some of the current actions, doesn't mean folks are "okay with it".     

I've been listening to so called conservatives and libertarian tell me that the government needs to be more like China in the fight against coronavirus. It's starting to get on my nerves. 

Should some businesses close to help stop the spread?

Yes.

Should government shut them down?

No.

Should nurses help out?

Yes.

Should government make them?

No.

I'm seeing a lot of people that are very outspoken on their principles, but now that they have some skin in the game they are all about the government controlling everyone.

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8 minutes ago, alleycat72 said:

 

I'm seeing a lot of people that are very outspoken on their principles, but now that they have some skin in the game they are all about the government controlling everyone.

Apologies in advance for the thread drift.

I've long been if the opinion that both the vocal left and the vocal right want lots of government control over my life, they just disagree about which aspects of my life that should be.

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9 minutes ago, TomInMN said:

Apologies in advance for the thread drift.

I've long been if the opinion that both the vocal left and the vocal right want lots of government control over my life, they just disagree about which aspects of my life that should be.

Everyone wants the comfort of knowing someone will help when it’s needed.

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12 hours ago, Garufa said:

Everyone wants the comfort of knowing someone will help when it’s needed.

I got my Guy...

 

Regarding medical service providers, there is a great line in Atlas Shrugged:

“Let them discover, in their operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it--and still less safe, if he is the sort who doesn’t.”

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14 hours ago, alleycat72 said:

I've been listening to so called conservatives and libertarian tell me that the government needs to be more like China in the fight against coronavirus. It's starting to get on my nerves. 

Should some businesses close to help stop the spread?

Yes.

Should government shut them down?

No.

Should nurses help out?

Yes.

Should government make them?

No.

I'm seeing a lot of people that are very outspoken on their principles, but now that they have some skin in the game they are all about the government controlling everyone.

You are assuming people would have enough intelligence to decide if their business should stay open or not, with all our lives on the line. They won’t, some are too stupid and have to be told. For others its too emotional, they will lose their business, they also have to be told.

I saw in a thread where some nurses were concerned, they would be threatened if they didn’t work. Has that really happened? From what I know of nurses, most of them you couldn’t stop from working when sick and dying people need them in an emergency. I suspect the number that would have to be threatened would be so small; it wouldn’t be worth messing with. Just like Police Officers and Fire Fighters have always done; they move towards the danger to deal with it. Now we have a new group doing that; those that are risking their lives by going to work so you don’t starve to death. But there isn’t enough PPE to protect the newest group. Some even think keeping PPE from them is "Free Enterprise".

Your rights end where other people’s rights begin.

If this continues much longer, I would guess Martial Law will be declared when the looting starts. Then you will have a better idea of what “the government controlling everyone” is truly like.

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18 hours ago, alleycat72 said:

The board of nursing is responsible for pulling a license not a hospital. If a nurse is guilty of dereliction of duty they will pull their license. Refusing to help someone in need is dereliction of duty.  Think about a lawyer. They go to college and learn how to be a lawyer, but they must pass the Bar before practicing. They can also be disbarred for different reasons. Same thing can happen to me, but they call it black listing.

So a nurse is obligated to help, but a police officer isn't?  That's messed up. 

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