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22 pistol and high powered rifle

22 rifle and magnum powered pistol

Medium rifle and pistol with same ammo capability

Just wondering what people think is the best choices. Please give your reasons.

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Everything is application driven so it depends on what we are surviving. “Survival” to me implies some form of civil unrest. If “Survival” means traipsing around out in the wild, disregard my response; I will not be doing that.

But none of those, an AR10 and a full-size M&P would be my choice.

Rifle: The AR10 because it can do it all. From close quarter combat to 1000-yard shots.

Handgun: The full-size M&P in either 40S&W or 9mm for quality and capacity. (.40S&W for me :))

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13 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Everything is application driven so it depends on what we are surviving. “Survival” to me implies some form of civil unrest. If “Survival” means traipsing around out in the wild, disregard my response; I will not be doing that.

But none of those, an AR10 and a full-size M&P would be my choice.

Rifle: The AR10 because it can do it all. From close quarter combat to 1000-yard shots.

Handgun: The full-size M&P in either 40S&W or 9mm for quality and capacity. (.40S&W for me :))

Yep, what Dave said!

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I have had several family and friends asking about owning their first firearms due to the recent riots, and money is usually a factor. My break down for them is usually this: if you're a decent shot or willing to train first buy a good used handgun and a good holster (m&p, glock, Springfield,..etc brands that are common and reliable even after heavy use). A handgun can be kept on you at all times, you have two free hands, and if you need to be out for whatever reason its concealable. Next get a decent shotgun like a mossberg 500. My reasoning is that first, they can be bought used for 300 bucks or less. Second, they are always gonna go bang even with a beating, and lastly they're not the best shots, and its a shotgun it's a one-and-done if you give a potential violent attacker a load of 00 to the chest. When asked what caliber/guage I usually say. "Whatever you can find the most of" and leave it at that. I have found most newbies will pay 450 for a used glock 17, but nearly throw up at the thought of paying 600 for a new one. I just try to keep them away from Taurus.

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I agree that a handgun is best because it can be carried at all times, but for most people needing a long arm for defensive purposes, I think a shotgun is best.   While I understand the attractiveness of recommending a battle rifle like the AR-10, it requires a reasonable amount of training to use an AR-10 effectively at close quarters, and when you start talking about shooting people at ranges of many hundreds of yards, you're no longer talking about self defense. 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Whisper said:

I agree that a handgun is best because it can be carried at all times, but for most people needing a long arm for defensive purposes, I think a shotgun is best.   While I understand the attractiveness of recommending a battle rifle like the AR-10, it requires a reasonable amount of training to use an AR-10 effectively at close quarters, and when you start talking about shooting people at ranges of many hundreds of yards, you're no longer talking about self defense. 

Exactly, I dont encourage someone to buy an ar15, ak47, ar10....etc  unless they have the money to spend. Most newbies just dont wanna drop that kind of money and most, in my experience, tend to miss a whole lot even at 15 yards. But if they ask and they have a few grand, then yeah, rifle pistol shotgun combo for sure. You're absolutely right that in a riot, civil unrest, SHTF sort of scenario you're gonna want to avoid and evade. Effective ranges will be close. 

Edit: not saying I encourage a rifle first. I always encourage buying a good handgun first or shotgun.

Edited by Mseals22

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For a rifle I'll go with my M1A Scout/Squad. Its a good do it all rifle. 

Handgun, well as much as I love my 1911s, I'd probably go with a high cap 9mm just for ammo availability. 

Then there would be a good .22 handgun in my pack for small game and throw in a suppressor for keeping a low profile. 

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Posted (edited)

It reads like you are thinking a bushcraft/live off the land type scenario. I’m curious how we get there from where we are now. Living in the wilderness with only what you find and what you can fit in a backpack and maybe in a game cart is very difficult and has a TON of disadvantages.

Even in the most catastrophic TEOTWAWKI scenario, long term survival (longer than 6 months) will be dependent upon if you can raise animals and grow a garden. In the 6-12 months prior to that (immediately following the “event”) when it’s complete and total anarchy with Mad Max roaming gangs (hypothetical) you will want nothing less than an AR/AK and high capacity pistol. But afterwards, you can’t roam forever, when you settle down or bug in, you can have anything and everything (gun wise) you can get. You will have to get a plot of land or work for someone who does. If you really want a 2-gun battery for that either a .357mag revolver/lever gun or .22 rifle/centerfire pistol would suffice I suppose. But you wouldn’t be limited to just 2 guns.

 

Of course the optimum solution is to just live in the country right now, commute to work if you must, and practice growing a garden and raising chickens or whatever other animals you have room for. It doesn’t just happen it takes work and skills knowing what to do. Otherwise you’ll likely not make it past 12 months. Within 3-4 months all game and fish will be gone. 
 

You can’t  live out of a backpack/off the land indefinitely.

Edited by nightrunner
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On 5/10/2020 at 11:18 AM, DaveTN said:

 If “Survival” means traipsing around out in the wild, disregard my response; I will not be doing that.

 

Now that's a word you don't hear very often, especially on TGO.   :)    

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19 minutes ago, Trekbike said:

Now that's a word you don't hear very often, especially on TGO.

Youins ain't from around here, is ya?

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I’m going to stick to a narrow definition about what your asking and just talk about a combo firearm. If I were going to go that route, then I wouldn’t go with a rifle/rifle, I’d go rifle/shotgun and I’d select a .22/12 ga. The lowly 12ga shotgun will take any beast in North America, provided you have the right ammunition, the skill and the bravery. Anything from a rabbit to a grizzly bear. The .22 is perfect for small game.

All that being said, it’s a poor choice for a firefight or for long range. The old Savage 24 were excellent quality guns. Latter on Savage brought out an updated model, called the 42. I believe Remington also imported a combo made in Turkey and badged as a Remington. Chiappa makes a version of the old Air Force Survival rifle in .22/12 ga that the Air Force used. 
 

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=213

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Moped said:

I’m going to stick to a narrow definition about what your asking and just talk about a combo firearm. If I were going to go that route, then I wouldn’t go with a rifle/rifle, I’d go rifle/shotgun and I’d select a .22/12 ga. The lowly 12ga shotgun will take any beast in North America, provided you have the right ammunition, the skill and the bravery. Anything from a rabbit to a grizzly bear. The .22 is perfect for small game.

All that being said, it’s a poor choice for a firefight or for long range. The old Savage 24 were excellent quality guns. Latter on Savage brought out an updated model, called the 42. I believe Remington also imported a combo made in Turkey and badged as a Remington. Chiappa makes a version of the old Air Force Survival rifle in .22/12 ga that the Air Force used. 
 

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=213

Sticking to the combo as Moped did, I would go for the Savage 24 myself. Why? I have a few...

If I had to pick up one and walk into the wilderness, it would be my 30-30/20ga. 30-30 is good for 2 or larger 4 foot mammals. The 20ga with several different ammo options can take the same larger all the way down to rodents. It is not a fighting gun, but it could do its share of damage.

If I got 2 guns, then my .357/20ga and one of my .357 revolvers. Maybe my S&W 13 or my Dan Wesson 15-2. Gives me even more choices ( .357 or .38)  and can still take larger animals I would run into. Plus reloading these with black powder would be much easier than semi autos. 

Now if I am "surviving" in a Mad Max movie full if rampaging killers, I would probably make different choices. 

Edited by Ronald_55
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33 minutes ago, Moped said:

I’m going to stick to a narrow definition about what your asking and just talk about a combo firearm. If I were going to go that route, then I wouldn’t go with a rifle/rifle, I’d go rifle/shotgun and I’d select a .22/12 ga. The lowly 12ga shotgun will take any beast in North America, provided you have the right ammunition, the skill and the bravery. Anything from a rabbit to a grizzly bear. The .22 is perfect for small game.

All that being said, it’s a poor choice for a firefight or for long range. The old Savage 24 were excellent quality guns. Latter on Savage brought out an updated model, called the 42. I believe Remington also imported a combo made in Turkey and badged as a Remington. Chiappa makes a version of the old Air Force Survival rifle in .22/12 ga that the Air Force used. 
 

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=213

For hunting purposes, that would be a tough gun to beat in .22/12ga. As you said with proper ammunition, it’s good enough for anything.

Maybe I’m misremembering, but I thought the Air Force version of that rifle was .22/.410. And .410 would be terrible for a survival situation. Anyone that’s used one knows, .410 is basically a shotgun for experts. Not the kind of added difficulty you want in dire times.

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9 hours ago, nightrunner said:

Maybe I’m misremembering, but I thought the Air Force version of that rifle was .22/.410. And .410 would be terrible for a survival situation. Anyone that’s used one knows, .410 is basically a shotgun for experts. Not the kind of added difficulty you want in dire times.

You are not mis-remembering.  The M6 was actually a .22 hornet/.410.  And I agree with you. on it's usefulnees. The caliber selction makes no sense to me, honestly.

I refereneced the Chiappa  version of the M6.  There are several other differences beyond caliber, though, It comes with two actual triggers, unlike the old AF survival rifle, which had a "pad".  The Chiappa is a bit less blocky than it's ancester too, though it still has the general look.  I believe it uses a lever loop (think Winchester 94) to facilitate reloading and breakdown.  I believe the M6 used a latch for the same function.  The Chiappa had interchangable chokes. for the shotgun.  Pretty sure the M6 didn't.

Like you, I would probably try to find an old Savage 24, in the calibers I wanted.  I think the prices on the Chiappa and the old Savage 24/42 are realatively the same. And I like the asthetics of the Savage much better.  Unfortunately. the 42 only comes in a .22LR or .22Mag /.410 combination.

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Depends. What am I attempting to survive?

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On 6/29/2020 at 10:42 AM, nightrunner said:

It reads like you are thinking a bushcraft/live off the land type scenario. I’m curious how we get there from where we are now. Living in the wilderness with only what you find and what you can fit in a backpack and maybe in a game cart is very difficult and has a TON of disadvantages.

Even in the most catastrophic TEOTWAWKI scenario, long term survival (longer than 6 months) will be dependent upon if you can raise animals and grow a garden. In the 6-12 months prior to that (immediately following the “event”) when it’s complete and total anarchy with Mad Max roaming gangs (hypothetical) you will want nothing less than an AR/AK and high capacity pistol. But afterwards, you can’t roam forever, when you settle down or bug in, you can have anything and everything (gun wise) you can get. You will have to get a plot of land or work for someone who does. If you really want a 2-gun battery for that either a .357mag revolver/lever gun or .22 rifle/centerfire pistol would suffice I suppose. But you wouldn’t be limited to just 2 guns.

 

Of course the optimum solution is to just live in the country right now, commute to work if you must, and practice growing a garden and raising chickens or whatever other animals you have room for. It doesn’t just happen it takes work and skills knowing what to do. Otherwise you’ll likely not make it past 12 months. Within 3-4 months all game and fish will be gone. 
 

You can’t  live out of a backpack/off the land indefinitely.

Spot on Nightrunner. Some people have this fantasy that you could live off the land. That might of worked in the 1800s when the U.S. population was around 5 million total. With 331 million of us now, we're already "artificially" feed through the farming/food industry. There isn't enough wildlife to sustain us anymore. Guess you could go total vegan and eat dandelions and stuff like that. 

Me, without bacon, I'm sure I'd die quickly. :) 

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On 7/9/2020 at 1:13 PM, 221 Fireball said:

Spot on Nightrunner. Some people have this fantasy that you could live off the land. That might of worked in the 1800s when the U.S. population was around 5 million total. With 331 million of us now, we're already "artificially" feed through the farming/food industry. There isn't enough wildlife to sustain us anymore. Guess you could go total vegan and eat dandelions and stuff like that. 

Me, without bacon, I'm sure I'd die quickly. :) 

331 million... 🤔  Cannabilism!!! 🤣

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21 hours ago, Moped said:

331 million... 🤔  Cannabilism!!! 🤣

 

food shortage..jpg

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Posted (edited)

My idea of a survival gun is surely something belt fed.

I do, however have a good example of a more traditional idea of a survival gun. It is an H&R 058 Topper youth model with two barrels. One is 30-30 Winchester, and the other is 20 gauge with modified choke.

My father bought his for me new when I was 10 years old. He paid $100 for it at D&D Ace Hardware in Lafayette. Although it has seen a lot of use, it is still in good condition. I still have the box, paperwork, and receipt. I should dig it out of the back of the safe and make some pictures sometime.

It is responsible for the demise of untold numbers of deer, coyote, turtles, snakes, dove, quail, rabbit, and squirrel. Probably not worth a lot to a collector, but it holds many fond memories for me. It will keep a man fed if he does his part.

Edited by gregintenn
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On 5/10/2020 at 12:18 PM, DaveTN said:

If “Survival” means traipsing around out in the wild, disregard my response; I will not be doing that

My traipsing would resemble becoming the Mad Max Baddie, of my subdivision.

Just got a magazine fed .308, so I'll keep that.

AR because I think I can scavenge ammo if necessary, same with 2 duty sized 9mm handguns - mag compatibility if one breaks.

A PCC taking the same mags as your pistol could be an option.

Keeping my trusty old 870 Tactical as well.

I'd let the 99 Savage and M1 Carbine go, .300 Savage and .30 Carbine is not common.

If it reaches the point where we need to big out, I'll load as much gear in the vehicle, head to a local marina, board a vessel and strike her colors, hoist my petard and become the Black Bart of the Tennessee...

24 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

My idea of a survival gun is surely something belt fed

I'd need something like that for the bow and stern gunners.

Something in .223/.556 would be dandy vs. wood and fiberglass.

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