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16 December 2020 - ATF Making More Moves Against Pistol Braces


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*** I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.  This is not legal advice.  Seek reputable legal counsel.  *** I think it is important to ask yourself why the ATF would be willing to offer you th

I don't have any advice but I hate the fact you haven't been made a citizen yet. You are exactly the type of person we would all like to welcome.  I really hope that it happens for you some day. 

Registration facilitates confiscation.  Remember that.

I'm not surprised.  After arbitrarily re-classifying bump stocks as prohibited items, you had to know the braces would be next.  Since the ATF and DOJ got little pushback and were even encouraged by the Trump administration to rewrite the laws to prohibit bump stocks, it was inevitable that they would eventually move against the "pistols that look too much like rifles" category ...

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23 minutes ago, No_0ne said:

I'm not surprised.  After arbitrarily re-classifying bump stocks as prohibited items, you had to know the braces would be next.  Since the ATF and DOJ got little pushback and were even encouraged by the Trump administration to rewrite the laws to prohibit bump stocks, it was inevitable that they would eventually move against the "pistols that look too much like rifles" category ...

Which is why those of us who protested that decision did so. It was never about the bump stocks. It was about how it was done. It opened the door to reclassify damn near anything with a simple published rule change. 
 

For those that supported that...

 

 

Edited by Chucktshoes
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If I'm reading it right one option to keep your devil brace is to go on record and register it as an sbr correct ? Otherwise you're a felon. Well at least we have options 🙄😁

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Before long it will be "You dont need 10 bullets to kill a deer" as from the commie NY state governor. Then you wont need 6, no wait 3 bullets. Then only single shot firearms. Reload powder will be allowed but only a 1/4 pound on hand at a time, 10 primers, no lead at all.

But at least Trump is out of office, RIGHT???

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2 minutes ago, RED333 said:

Before long it will be "You dont need 10 bullets to kill a deer" as from the commie NY state governor. Then you wont need 6, no wait 3 bullets. Then only single shot firearms. Reload powder will be allowed but only a 1/4 pound on hand at a time, 10 primers, no lead at all.

But at least Trump is out of office, RIGHT???

And after they effectively destroy the semi-auto, they'll pivot their rhetoric to "sniper rifles and street sweepers". Hunting rifles and shotguns wont be safe either, given enough time. 

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6 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Can some post a link to the correct address to commenit about this very subject? The address  in the givin in the pdf. is to general.

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Just now, RED333 said:

Can some post a link to the correct address to commenit about this very subject? The address  that is given in the pdf. is to general.

Because I can

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I’m not sure what he wants Trump or the “White House” to do. Trump can’t do anything. It’s only “his BATF” for another month. Biden can undo anything he does on the first day. I expect EO’s out of Biden the first week. Didn’t he already make that threat?

These are simply political stunts. Because “Short Barreled Rifles” are really a non-issue today. But because they are in the NFA and some dumb azz sitting behind a desk at the ATF decided to write a letter saying a brace is not a stock; owners will pay the price. I suspect it won’t be limited to the brace.

I posted a video in another thread by Colin Noir about why you need to Believe Biden. I’ll add it here.

 

 

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2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

I’m not sure what he wants Trump or the “White House” to do. Trump can’t do anything

This might be true but only because of timing. If it were not the end of his term I'm pretty sure he could do something, just like he encouraged them to ban bump stocks. I don't think that would have happened otherwise. 

Edited by Erik88
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13 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

This might be true but only because of timing. If it were not the end of his term I'm pretty sure he could do something, just like he encouraged them to ban bump stocks. I don't think that would have happened otherwise. 

Absolutely. But it is the end of his term. We are about to get exactly what you claim the American people voted for. As both parties have said “Elections have consequences”.

But I’ve accepted it Erik. Exactly as I said when folks were whining about things Obama did prior to Trump being elected; Obama became irrelevant the day he left office and everything was on Trump. Your boy Joe is in control the day he takes office. What he does with the Economy, Jobs, Business, Covid and Guns is on him. If he does great things; I’ll be the first to admit it. I’ll hurry up and wait right here.

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I did send an e-mail to Trump and reminded him that he is still the President. Hopefully, he's just petty and vindictive enough to slap BATF&E hard to derail Biden's gun schemes before leaving office. One can only hope. 

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7 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

I did send an e-mail to Trump and reminded him that he is still the President. Hopefully, he's just petty and vindictive enough to slap BATF&E hard to derail Biden's gun schemes before leaving office. One can only hope. 

I sure hope so!

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21 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

I did send an e-mail to Trump and reminded him that he is still the President. Hopefully, he's just petty and vindictive enough to slap BATF&E hard to derail Biden's gun schemes before leaving office. One can only hope. 

I’m not arguing, I’m asking because I’m unsure, what do you think he can do that Biden can’t undo on day 1?

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20 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

I’m not arguing, I’m asking because I’m unsure, what do you think he can do that Biden can’t undo on day 1?

Honestly, I don't know. But maybe if he cuts the head(s) off this snake, Biden may not choose to put them back. Then again, Biden may put worse people in charge. But if nothing else, Trump can send a message loud and clear that the American people are tired of this crap. 

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Reading that unpublished ATF letter, I see that one of the suggested remedies is to register your braced AR pistol as an SBR under NFA, but with a waiver of the fee, another is the removal and destruction of the brace.  I have a couple questions about that.  I know that for some who added a brace after purchase, no one may know you have one, but some of us bought our pistol new with a brace, so there is a record of it.  Do you recommend registering or removal?  Also, once registered as an SBR, could one then legally remove the brace and add a real stock, since its now a registered SBR?

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3 minutes ago, Defender said:

Reading that unpublished ATF letter, I see that one of the suggested remedies is to register your braced AR pistol as an SBR under NFA, but with a waiver of the fee, another is the removal and destruction of the brace.  I have a couple questions about that.  I know that for some who added a brace after purchase, no one may know you have one, but some of us bought our pistol new with a brace, so there is a record of it.  Do you recommend registering or removal?  Also, once registered as an SBR, could one then legally remove the brace and add a real stock, since its now a registered SBR?

I don’t think anyone here could, would or should make a recommendation on what to do with a braced firearm. 
 

I would ask some questions when choosing to pick a course of action. 
 

Did you purchase the firearm with the brace?

Did you purchase the brace over the net, or In person?

Did you purchase the brace from a store or from a private party?

Did you pay with cash or a credit/debit/check?

Did you post pictures of your braced firearm online?

Can ownership of the brace be easily tracked to you?

 

 

As far as registering it as an SBR, yeah, once it is in the registry you can put an actual stock on it and a VFG if you like. All that is wide open. 

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21 hours ago, Defender said:

Reading that unpublished ATF letter, I see that one of the suggested remedies is to register your braced AR pistol as an SBR under NFA, but with a waiver of the fee, another is the removal and destruction of the brace.  I have a couple questions about that.  I know that for some who added a brace after purchase, no one may know you have one, but some of us bought our pistol new with a brace, so there is a record of it.  Do you recommend registering or removal?  Also, once registered as an SBR, could one then legally remove the brace and add a real stock, since its now a registered SBR?

Well, since this is administrative "law," I would not hang my hat on anything unpublished. But based on your questions, I would register my MPX as a SBR if there's no tax penalty. If they define a brace as a stock then I fail to see how it would be a problem to put a stock on if.

Edited by E4 No More
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19 minutes ago, Defender said:

Reading that unpublished ATF letter, I see that one of the suggested remedies is to register your braced AR pistol as an SBR under NFA, but with a waiver of the fee, another is the removal and destruction of the brace.  I have a couple questions about that.  I know that for some who added a brace after purchase, no one may know you have one, but some of us bought our pistol new with a brace, so there is a record of it.  Do you recommend registering or removal?  Also, once registered as an SBR, could one then legally remove the brace and add a real stock, since its now a registered SBR?

Good question. My WAG would be that the brace would be an individual NFA item, just as he wants to do with requiring every high capacity magazine you own to have a tax stamp. But I suspect he can’t add stuff to the NFA without an act of Congress; although he may try. I doubt he will let you crate an SBR for free.

I suspect his first act will be to ban all private sales of firearms by EO. Of course that will probably immediately be stopped by a Federal Judge somewhere; then it would head to SCOTUS.

I also expect to see a bill to outlaw the sale of AR’s. I doubt that will pass Congress whether or not the Dems get control. There are Dems that won’t get reelected if they get onboard with that.

But I don’t think he, or the rest of them, really care what will pass. They only want to be able to say “We tried”.

Your options would be up to you. I’m not doing anything that would allow me to be convicted of a felony.

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3 hours ago, Erik88 said:

This might be true but only because of timing. If it were not the end of his term I'm pretty sure he could do something, just like he encouraged them to ban bump stocks. I don't think that would have happened otherwise. 

 

1 hour ago, Grayfox54 said:

I did send an e-mail to Trump and reminded him that he is still the President. Hopefully, he's just petty and vindictive enough to slap BATF&E hard to derail Biden's gun schemes before leaving office. One can only hope. 

 

1 hour ago, Defender said:

I sure hope so!

All of these posts are based on a false premise, i.e. that Trump gives a rip about guns, gun owners, the Second Amendment or gun rights in general.  Unless he can figure out some way to tie it to another fundraiser, none of this will be a blip on his radar ...

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49 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I don’t think anyone here could, would or should make a recommendation on what to do with a braced firearm. 
 

I would ask some questions when choosing to pick a course of action. 
 

Did you purchase the firearm with the brace?

Did you purchase the brace over the net, or In person?

Did you purchase the brace from a store or from a private party?

Did you pay with cash or a credit/debit/check?

Did you post pictures of your braced firearm online?

Can ownership of the brace be easily tracked to you?

 

 

As far as registering it as an SBR, yeah, once it is in the registry you can put an actual stock on it and a VFG if you like. All that is wide open. 

That is where the boating accidents come in.  They can have all the records they want, but I have no duty to keep track of what happened to those purchases.  In the future, I am sure you can't buy one even privately without the risk of getting yourself arrested by an informant, but all those past purchases are in the wind as far as I'm concerned.  

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