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Optics ready pistolas... Somethin to play with or the " Real Deal "..?


leroy

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Brothers n Sisters...

A potential " New Mania " has struck me... The " RedDot on a Pistola Mania "..!  

Do yall think the mania is, indeed, just somethin to play with or if it is, indeed, a viable home and vehicle defense tool..?  Im thinkin a full size pistola... Glock, Xd, Smith, IWI... 

What's the best way ta do this..?   Milled slide or " Optics Ready "...?    Whaddya think about the tiny RMRs...? Ones ya like...  Them " tall iron sights... Which ones ya like...?   A

Enlighten me please...

Thank all y'all in advance...

" J Thaddius " leroy... " Struck by the red dot mania "...!

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They are the real deal and as much of technological leap as optics were on rifles. 
 

My preferences are as follows. 
 

Milled slide > plate system. Direct attachment allows for a lower profile and a more solid mounting. 
 

Either purchase a new, precut slide, or whole new gun designed for the optic you want. If you decide you don’t like it, you can put the original slide back on and sell the aftermarket slide for a lower loss than a gun with a chunk missing from its OEM slide. 
 

For the optic, Trijicon RMR or Holosun. Everything else just comes up short. 
 

I have no opinion on the taller iron sights as my optics sit low enough in the slide to utilize the OEM standard sights. 
 

Only my opinion, and worth what you paid for it. 😁

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Make sure you rent a pistol with a red dot sight so you can try them out first. I personally don't like them. But if I were to get one I'd go with a pistol milled out from the factory. I'd stay away from aftermarket milling places. Stick with Factory and you cant go wrong. 

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@leroy

I have an ATEI worked Glock 17... shot it today at Point Blank Knoxville as a matter of fact.

It's taken, and still takes, a lot of dry fire and consistency of motion to really gain benefit from it, imho. But it sure helps with these aging eyes.

You are welcome to try it if you'd like and see what you think.

My time is kinda tight right now, but PM me and we'll see what's what. 🙂

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Here's what I chose to do first before committing to having my slide milled. I installed an EGW NOVACK MOUNT for my Staccato P 4.14, w/ HOLOSUN 507C X2 RED DOT. I know it's  not the proper way to mount one but I  wanted to try it out first. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet but I will soon.

20210201_170129.thumb.jpg.d963576584ae97b75de3446370bef404.jpg20210201_171503.thumb.jpg.9be24f59f84c6cd91aee003a3153c316.jpg20210201_173007.thumb.jpg.1764d6417abafcba6487f5ea59cecb5d.jpg20210201_173107.thumb.jpg.177e1329867cd01960e4aa60c37c54d3.jpg

 

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7 minutes ago, DJTC45 said:

Here's what I chose to do first before committing to having my slide milled. I installed an EGW NOVACK MOUNT for my Staccato P 4.14, w/ HOLOSUN 507C X2 RED DOT. I know it's  not the proper way to mount one but I  wanted to try it out first. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet but I will soon.

20210201_170129.thumb.jpg.d963576584ae97b75de3446370bef404.jpg20210201_171503.thumb.jpg.9be24f59f84c6cd91aee003a3153c316.jpg20210201_173007.thumb.jpg.1764d6417abafcba6487f5ea59cecb5d.jpg20210201_173107.thumb.jpg.177e1329867cd01960e4aa60c37c54d3.jpg

 

Thanks.... Been thinkin about this myself... The only worry is rigidity...

Thanks again...!

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57 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

They are the real deal and as much of technological leap as optics were on rifles. 
 

My preferences are as follows. 
 

Milled slide > plate system. Direct attachment allows for a lower profile and a more solid mounting. 
 

Either purchase a new, precut slide, or whole new gun designed for the optic you want. If you decide you don’t like it, you can put the original slide back on and sell the aftermarket slide for a lower loss than a gun with a chunk missing from its OEM slide. 
 

For the optic, Trijicon RMR or Holosun. Everything else just comes up short. 
 

I have no opinion on the taller iron sights as my optics sit low enough in the slide to utilize the OEM standard sights. 
 

Only my opinion, and worth what you paid for it. 😁

Chuck...

Whose slides doya like...?  Ive got a Glock 32 layin around... Will a long slide fit these compact frames..?

Thanks again...

leroy....

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6 minutes ago, leroy said:

Chuck...

Whose slides doya like...?  Ive got a Glock 32 layin around... Will a long slide fit these compact frames..?

Thanks again...

leroy....

I apologize as I don’t have much experience with the aftermarket slide manufacturers. I have 3 pistols with optics. My Springfield Hellcat OSP which came factory ready. My Shadow Systems War Poet which came with an optic, and a Browning HiPower which is currently with my gunsmith getting its slide milled for an optic. I’m normally not one for milling the slide, but that one is a bit of a special case. It’s gonna get a rail installed as well. 
 

 

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Leroy, if I wanted to try it out - and make sure I could get my money back out of it if I didn’t like it - I think I’d buy a Zev Tech G19 slide and put it on the G32.  I think those frames are the same - but verify it first.

A 7MOA RMR is the way to go for a fighting pistol. And again, you can easily flip it if you decide it’s not for you. 

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10 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Leroy, if I wanted to try it out - and make sure I could get my money back out of it if I didn’t like it - I think I’d buy a Zev Tech G19 slide and put it on the G32.  I think those frames are the same - but verify it first.

A 7MOA RMR is the way to go for a fighting pistol. And again, you can easily flip it if you decide it’s not for you. 

Gonna check the Zev now...

Thanks again...

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I have the red dot/pistol bug as well, I ended with a Trijicon SRO on a FNX-45 tactical, and a RMR on a shadow systems MR920, me personally I like the SRO better for the little bit bigger window, but the RMR is excellent as well. For me they are so much faster getting back on target vs irons.

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Have a M&P 5" that I had milled by Chris Vittetoe here in Knoxville.  He mounted a SRO on it.  Do not have a rear sight.  Works fine, made the full commitment and glad I did.  Have a 2.0 that I mounted a  Holosun 407 with the EGW.  No complaints and no backup sights with it either....actually like it better.  No loosening and I've probably put at least a couple thousand rounds through it.

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I have several guns (pistols and long guns) with red dots but none are home defense. I have fun with them shooting targets but I'm much slower getting on target. It is fun hitting the more distant targets, I have them zered in so if the dot is on the target it hits it. For speed I like open sights.

If you go forward practice a lot.

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I've written about red dot optics on handguns many, many times here on TGO.  They are the way forward.  Period.  I probably have more money invested in dot optics and having slides milled for them than most folks have in handguns.   I own more than a few and I have spent countless hours getting pretty good with them and good at teaching people to use them effectively.  🙂

They aren't a fad and they aren't a niche anymore.  They've become mainstream because they work and they are a vast improvement over iron sights.  And as long as you stay with proven brands like Trijicon and Holosun, they are reliable even for duty use.

 

Seeing that Staccato P with that crazy dovetail mounting plate just hurts my soul.  Those mounting plates will get a dot on your gun for cheap but they are like buying a sex doll and thinking it's anything like the real deal.  It's just not.  The height over bore is wonky and it will feel alien and unnatural holding the gun lower than you normally would just to get a decent alignment with the optic and your eye.

I also dislike most of the OEM mounting systems that use plates to affix various red dots to the top of the slide for some of the same reasons.   The Glock MOS and M&P CORE systems both put the optic higher than they could be if the slide was just machined for for the specific optic.  The MOS and CORE plates also don't provide much material for the optic's screws to go into.  This leads to failures and people assuming that red dot optics on handguns is a bad idea.

C&H Precision Weapons (CHPWS) makes improved plates for the Glock and M&P that makes it a little better.

 

FN USA has a better plate design for the 509 MRD.  CZ USA has a pretty good plate setup for the P10C OR.  Shadow Systems has the best design, period, for using a variety of optics in the MR918, MR920 and DR920 lines.  The optic sits nice and low in the slide and is held down by the longest screws I've seen yet.

I've got a few Staccatos now.  The 2019 and 2020 DUO models were pretty good but Dawson Precision makes the plates for them and believes in THICK material.  The 2020 and 2021 DPO models are better and Dawson's plates for them seem to be thinner and more in line with what CHPWS makes.   My 2021 C2 DPO with a Holosun 507K is damn near perfection.


I am anxious to get my hands on the new Walther PDP.  They seem to have really designed that gun around the CHPWS mounting plate system and set them pretty low into the slide with good mounting hardware.  I think it'll be the gun to beat if you're lookin for a sub $1000 gun with optic this year.

 

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6 minutes ago, Jeb48 said:

I have several guns (pistols and long guns) with red dots but none are home defense. I have fun with them shooting targets but I'm much slower getting on target. It is fun hitting the more distant targets, I have them zered in so if the dot is on the target it hits it. For speed I like open sights.

If you go forward practice a lot.

I 100% guarantee you that your slowness is due to inefficient presentation of the gun with the optic and that with some coaching you'll not only be better with the dot than you are with iron sights, but you'll be a better iron sights shooter too.

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The direction I went is rather than buy (or mill) a slide, I bought a complete optics ready gun that I could sell if I didn't like the dot setup.  The IWI Masada didn't cost a lot more than many slides.  Example:

https://kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=127972

The Masada has become my daily carry, although I still prefer my Glock 26.  I've contemplated going ahead and getting a slide for the 26, but that means replacing the custom leather pancake holster.  Leupold has a new red dot sight announced (but not currently available) that will work with my existing holsters as it replaces the rear sight rather than requiring the slide be milled.  I'll be ordering one to try as soon as they are in stock at the distributors:

https://www.leupold.com/deltapoint-micro-glock

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9 minutes ago, billmeek said:

The direction I went is rather than buy (or mill) a slide, I bought a complete optics ready gun that I could sell if I didn't like the dot setup.  The IWI Masada didn't cost a lot more than many slides.  Example:

https://kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=127972

I almost included the Masada in my diatribe up there but don't have any personal experience with them.  I know that the polymer adapter plate for the optic weirded-out some initial reviewers but I frankly don't see the problem so long as the plate is just an adapter and the screws go INTO the metal of the slide.  I think that is how the Masada works?

Polymer shouldn't scare us in that application.  We aren't scared that the gun's frame is polymer, after all.

 

9 minutes ago, billmeek said:

The Masada has become my daily carry, although I still prefer my Glock 26.  I've contemplated going ahead and getting a slide for the 26, but that means replacing the custom leather pancake holster.  Leupold has a new red dot sight announced (but not currently available) that will work with my existing holsters as it replaces the rear sight rather than requiring the slide be milled.  I'll be ordering one to try as soon as they are in stock at the distributors:

https://www.leupold.com/deltapoint-micro-glock

That Leupold is an interesting design.  I really need to get behind one of them before I form an opinion, but God almighty the urge is strong to form an opinion from just looking at photos of it.  🙂

 

Another gun I almost mentioned, and that I like a ton, is the Zev OZ9.  It's just worth noting that you are limited to the RMR footprint as far as optics go.  Thankfully most optics worth having use the RMR footprint, so this isn't a bad thing.  And there are a lot of other reasons to love the OZ9.

 

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The only problem I've had with the Masada was the screws provided weren't the correct length to work with the Holosun 507C-GR.  I had to order some out of (ugh) China since I couldn't find a source in the USA.

You might want to watch a few reviews of the Deltapoint micro.  Example:

 

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1 hour ago, leroy said:

Bill...

Im likin the Masada idea myself...

leroy...

I almost pulled the trigger on a Masada, for a full sized red dot pistol. Ended up getting a P365Xl with a Holosun. I like the red dot for my near sightedness. I can see the dot and the target, instead of either the sights OR the target. 
 

I do want to shoot a full sized pistol with a larger red dot to see how it is. 
 

a down side of the red dot, at least with the smaller ones is in the dark. The window is small and it is not as easy to get on target. As such l, my home pistol is my M&P 2.0 with night sights. Much easier to see those sights in the dark. 

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1 minute ago, Snaveba said:

I do want to shoot a full sized pistol with a larger red dot to see how it is. 

If you want to take a trip down to my local range (Eagle Eye in Summertown), I'd be more than willing to let you try out my Masada. 

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