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I sure am glad that Trump isn't making mean Tweets as President anymore. Y'all?


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7 hours ago, Daniel said:

He also said that we shouldnt be bound by old dead guys and that every 21 years give or take we should rewrite the constitution.

Jefferson absolutely did NOT say that. It sounds like something a flaming Leftist would twist and contort to fit a specific political agenda after reading Jefferson's views on government and technology and how advances(scientific) should affect citizens. Not only did he not actually say anything about "old dead guys" and rewriting the Constitution every 21 years, he made it very clear through multiples writings throughout his life that changes were best approached from a moderate position.

The only writing about "rewriting"" the Constitution was a letter I believe he sent to Madison expressing a thought about a kind of Constitutional reset or expiration at 19 years. That reset wasn't a reset intended to give government more control over our lives while we start from scratch. On the contrary, it was a way to limit and reset a government that stopped being receptive and representative of the people it was supposed to serve. The actual letter(s) where he talks about a Constitutional expiration shows that the historical propensity of a government that stops working for the interests of its constituents was the only reason he believed "expiration" could be a remedy.

Jefferson certainly was ahead of his time and understood how government could never truly be separated from human nature. He was open to changes that gave us more freedom and bettered the lives of citizens. But to suggest that Jefferson wanted change for the sake of change because of "old dead guys" is ridiculous. The man literally based his life on the philosophy and scientific discoveries of countless "old dead guys."

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You know, David, I’ll probably get a ding for this, but I’d like to get it off my chest. I am a proud American. I’m not perfect, but have lived a life I am not ashamed of. Although I let my fathe

Just a big thanks to the Liberal gun owners who voted against Trump and encouraged others to do the same.  I'm glad that you are more than just "single issue voter" troglodytes.  If we end up in the g

I vote with my brain in gear.  I did the same thing this time.  I saw what was coming.  Everyone with any sense did. All I've heard from the Liberal gun owners leading up to this moment is how I'

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16 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Literally, we are able to have this conversation today because some two-hundred and fifty years ago, men and women who had basically had just a damn 'nuff of the government they previously lived under, and took it upon themselves to wage violence against it after that government repeatedly failed to hear their complaints and make good on them.  But not even 100 years later when men and women tried it again (the American Civil War) the government had since quickly decided, "Well we won't ever allow that #### to happen again." and crushed the separatists rather than allowing them to establish a new country and a new government

Actually, I am remiss in my statements.  It didn't even take 100-years for the US Government to decide that it wouldn't tolerate any talk of rebellion from the people whom had recently rebelled to establish it in the first place. 🙂

The Whiskey Rebellion occurred in 1791, not even 20-years after the Declaration of Independence was signed.  President George Washington sent troops to Pennsylvania to crush that one.

 

@Daniel maybe you could help settle the question so many people have asked in America over the course of the past several decades:  Would American solders side with the government or with their brothers and sisters, moms and dads, if push ever came to shove and The People tried to throw off the chains of tyranny again?  It's not lost on me that part of the oath of enlistment requires a soldier to swear that they will fight against domestic enemies. 

I think folks just somehow assume that an oath like that wouldn't be followed.  Seems kind of idealistic to me.

 

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22 minutes ago, partypilot1 said:

It’s funny how the liberals are so narrow minded. I’ve tried, even on this platform, to open their minds to a bigger picture and they snap back with pre-fed bulls**t. Im done trying to inform them at this moment. 
 

If you believe that, then you really shouldn't be calling them liberal. Frankly, I'm kind of a liberal in many aspects and I'm nothing like them[Democrats] even though I have overlap on some positions. I'm always willing to accept facts. We all have opinions and preferences and maybe even a certain way we take those facts and use them to shape our own worldview. But no reasonable and rational human should ever disagree about the FACTS.

The majority of the Democrat party and those voting Democrat are Leftists now. They stopped being "liberal" years ago. They are ideologues who only care about facts if it serves their own agendas. You can reason with liberals and at least reach some kind of amicable existence. You can't reason with Leftists. They are the ultimate authoritarians who are hellbent on making you and everyone else in the world comply with their own worldview.

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16 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Would American solders side with the government or with their brothers and sisters, moms and dad

When I was a young Marine ( a LONG time ago!) one of the field grade officers was working on his Master's Degree and distributed a questionnaire to enlisted Marines under his command asking a similar question (among many others). I no longer recall it exactly, but essentially it asked about their reaction to the idea of firing on Americans. He was surprised to find that the majority of respondents said they'd shoot the officer who gave the order. 

And then on the other hand there was Kent State and the clearing of U.S. vets under orders of Hoover in 1932,

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Just now, Darrell said:

When I was a young Marine ( a LONG time ago!) one of the field grade officers was working on his Master's Degree and distributed a questionnaire to enlisted Marines under his command asking a similar question (among many others). I no longer recall it exactly, but essentially it asked about their reaction to the idea of firing on Americans. He was surprised to find that the majority of respondents said they'd shoot the officer who gave the order. 

And then on the other hand there was Kent State and the clearing of U.S. vets under orders of Hoover in 1932,

Anyone in a position of leadership knows that it's a good idea to float a balloon every now and again to gauge the mindset of people under their command.  While I am glad to hear that a long time ago Marines were willing to shoot the officer who gave such a command, I suspect that the data collected was eventually fed back into the overall program to make adjustments and ensure that future generations of Marines would answer the question "correctly".

I'm not as much of a skeptic as I am just a realist.  I know how we use employee satisfaction surveys at work.  Same idea, sadly.

 

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13 minutes ago, Lincoln Osiris said:

If you believe that, then you really shouldn't be calling them liberal. Frankly, I'm kind of a liberal in many aspects and I'm nothing like them[Democrats] even though I have overlap on some positions. I'm always willing to accept facts. We all have opinions and preferences and maybe even a certain way we take those facts and use them to shape our own worldview. But no reasonable and rational human should ever disagree about the FACTS.

The majority of the Democrat party and those voting Democrat are Leftists now. They stopped being "liberal" years ago. They are ideologues who only care about facts if it serves their own agendas. You can reason with liberals and at least reach some kind of amicable existence. You can't reason with Leftists. They are the ultimate authoritarians who are hellbent on making you and everyone else in the world comply with their own worldview.

A liberal is a liberal. If it makes you feel better I can just call them all Lima’s. One thing is for sure, they are not patriots

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5 hours ago, partypilot1 said:

One thing is for sure, they are not patriots

That's painting with a mighty wide brush. I think that there are plenty of liberals who are plenty patriotic.  The founding fathers spoke often of "liberal politics" and were, of course, revolutionaries. A properly functioning representative democracy like ours needs both liberal and conservative voices. The idea of having a government like ours is that liberals, conservatives, and centrists SHOULD be able to work together to find compromise positions. It's a national tragedy that left and right have come to see one another as enemies rather than as people of good conscious with differing ideas. Unless you believe yourself infallible, then you should be willing to listen to other ideas with an open mind, consider carefully, and adopt those parts that make sense.

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17 minutes ago, Darrell said:

That's painting with a mighty wide brush. I think that there are plenty of liberals who are plenty patriotic.  The founding fathers spoke often of "liberal politics" and were, of course, revolutionaries. A properly functioning representative democracy like ours needs both liberal and conservative voices. The idea of having a government like ours is that liberals, conservatives, and centrists SHOULD be able to work together to find compromise positions. It's a national tragedy that left and right have come to see one another as enemies rather than as people of good conscious with differing ideas. Unless you believer yourself infallible, then you should be willing to listen to other ideas with an open mind, consider carefully, and adopt those parts that make sense.

Ah, like the whigs and tories? No, some parties collapse under their own absurdities and new parties rise. 

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44 minutes ago, partypilot1 said:

A liberal is a liberal. If it makes you feel better I can just call them all Lima’s. One thing is for sure, they are not patriots

I guess if I were a Leftist who valued emotions more than facts and reason, then I'd gladly take you up on the "if it makes you feel better" suggestion. But as someone with a more liberally-minded outlook, I think I'll just stick with the actual definition of liberal.

I'm open-minded if you can present me with facts. How about you?

I despise authoritarianism and those wishing to completely control my life based on THEIR views. How about you?

I love me some individual rights. How about you?

I'm certainly patriotic. I'm just not dogmatic and not prone to throw out cliches and platitudes without first thinking about their accuracy. How about you?

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11 hours ago, btq96r said:

Maybe we save the hyperbole for if/what the Biden administration does something of consequence? 

Too much to ask...probably.

On the surface, his EOs don’t seem to be earth-shattering.  They are pretty much what I expected.  He could have tried more and may still.  However, I do like the pendelum to keep swinging the other way and this changes that. 

Of potentially greater consequence is Biden’s new “AFT” nominee, who is a certified gun-grabber and is pushing a new AWB because (he apparently claims) they were used to shoot down helicopters by the Branch Davidians.  But propaganda is cool nowadays. 
 

Elections have consequences.  I have a feeling never-Trumpers are going to get tired of hearing this.  

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This thread is going off the rails pretty quick and was never only about gun rights. Folks are mad that some gun owners chose not to vote for Trump. I'm going back to my original statement. This country will be destroyed from the inside out, by both parties. Your "team" isn't any less culpable than the other team. In the end, there will be few winners.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Darrell said:

That's painting with a mighty wide brush. I think that there are plenty of liberals who are plenty patriotic.  The founding fathers spoke often of "liberal politics" and were, of course, revolutionaries. A properly functioning representative democracy like ours needs both liberal and conservative voices. The idea of having a government like ours is that liberals, conservatives, and centrists SHOULD be able to work together to find compromise positions. It's a national tragedy that left and right have come to see one another as enemies rather than as people of good conscious with differing ideas. Unless you believer yourself infallible, then you should be willing to listen to other ideas with an open mind, consider carefully, and adopt those parts that make sense.

Several points, in response to several posts:

I think the definition of liberalism has drastically changed over the years.  I often use the word liberals to describe the left, but perhaps a better word, as said above, is leftists, because that's what they are.

American troops firing on fellow Americans?  The left already has that figured out.  First you just have to apply the proper labels to them, they aren't Americans, they are white supremacists, domestic terrorists and insurrectionists, remember?  Lok at the recent events at the Capitol.  As I recall, a unarmed woman was shot by Capitol police, and now they are still identifying and rounding up the "insurrectionists". There are also broad efforts at indoctrinating the military at every level.  You cant advance anymore unless you at least publicly subscribe to the woke agenda.

I've also often thought, and stated that the two parties are too similar to suit me.  They each know what to say and do do keep their base, but when in power they don't go as far as they said they would.  Look at Trump.  He was constrained by his own party almost as much as by the libs.  The republican party has been the one to get my votes solely because they are slightly more aligned with my beliefs than the other side,  and despite their severe limitations, they are less evil than the other side.  I always look for a party that can challenge them both, but am ever mindful of the Ross Perot debacle.  Many still believe Perot  caused Clinton to win over Bush.

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10 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

This thread is going off the rails pretty quick and was never only about gun rights. Folks are mad that some gun owners chose not to vote for Trump. I'm going back to my original statement. This country will be destroyed from the inside out, by both parties. Your "team" isn't any less culpable than the other team. In the end, there will be few winners.

Is it really going off the rails or do you just not like what's being said?

So far it seems that people are being polite and [mostly] not attacking each other but rather attacking ideas and ideologies.

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14 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Is it really going off the rails or do you just not like what's being said?

I actually think it's been mostly good debate but I'm trying to respect your rule about no politics because we've gotten way off topic from gun control. It's not that I don't like what's being said. I think we all needed to vent a little. There are several comments unrelated to gun control that I wanted to respond to, but chose not to because they were off topic. 

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4 hours ago, RED333 said:

How many of yall are still using instagram, youtube, twitter, google, and facebook or any other of the commie platforms? They are all anti 2nd! If you are you are part of the problem, propping up the commies to have the great country fall.

Trump was a great POTUS, I to voted from him twice and will again if giving the chance!!!

I never have used Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter even though family members and friends have tried to get me to do so. Facebook was an account of mine when 💩 head was building white boxes, buying monitors from me, and then selling them to college students. I had a bad feeling about him from the beginning.

I have stopped using Chrome or Edge as much as possible, but some of the tools that I use at work requires them. I only use Youtube when I have no choice, and I certainly don't pay for it. As far as cell phones, it's hard to get away from Android (Google), Apple, and Microsoft.

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13 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Regardless of whether or not they have an R, D or any other letter next to their name. When a politician works against our interest we should be burning their ####ing houses to the ground.

I believe a group tried something like that on January 6th, and most of the people here condemned them for it.

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6 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

I never have used Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter even though family members and friends have tried to get me to do so. Facebook was an account of mine when 💩 head was building white boxes, buying monitors from me, and then selling them to college students. I had a bad feeling about him from the beginning.

I have stopped using Chrome or Edge as much as possible, but some of the tools that I use at work requires them. I only use Youtube when I have no choice, and I certainly don't pay for it. As far as cell phones, it's hard to get away from Android (Google), Apple, and Microsoft.

Plus Amazon.  I don’t do business with them not only because they like suppressing speech, but also because they are trying to put everyone out of business.  

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1 hour ago, deerslayer said:

On the surface, his EOs don’t seem to be earth-shattering.  They are pretty much what I expected.  He could have tried more and may still.  However, I do like the pendelum to keep swinging the other way and this changes that. 

Of potentially greater consequence is Biden’s new “AFT” nominee, who is a certified gun-grabber and is pushing a new AWB because (he apparently claims) they were used to shoot down helicopters by the Branch Davidians.  But propaganda is cool nowadays. 
 

Elections have consequences.  I have a feeling never-Trumpers are going to get tired of hearing this.  

Where does the helicopter bit come from? I've read and watched documentaries, I've never heard any reference period to helicopters being shot down. Where is he coming up with this?

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18 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

Where does the helicopter bit come from? I've read and watched documentaries, I've never heard any reference period to helicopters being shot down. Where is he coming up with this?

Branch Davidians were reported to have fired on, and caused minor damage to a couple of helicopters. That said, the answer to your second question “his ass.”

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10 hours ago, Daniel said:

How?  What damages have you received being a white christian man in america?

Where did I mention “damages”?

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37 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

Where does the helicopter bit come from? I've read and watched documentaries, I've never heard any reference period to helicopters being shot down. Where is he coming up with this?

Where have you been?  Truth and facts are like so 80s. 

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4 hours ago, partypilot1 said:

One thing is for sure, they are not patriots

What makes you a patriot? This thread is doing the very thing that you all accuse liberals/ leftists/commies of doing. If others don’t conform to your way of thinking they are flawed. Really?
 

The whining from white, Christian males with guns. is laughable. Obama said something stupid years ago, Fox repeated Obama’s comment a million times and you guys ate it up. I’ve yet to see a response to @Danielpost to what’s exactly is being done to you. 
 

As for the original post, I don’t feel bad about voting Trump out of office.  I wasn’t a single issue voter, and I make no apologies for that.  Trumps covid response and stimulus that didn’t trickle down to the lowest essential workers didn’t help him either.
 

 I don’t believe that anyone will be confiscating our guns. You guys do this same sky is falling routine every time a democrat takes office. Whatever happens as far as Biden’s EO’s we will adjust. I’m not happy about background checks for private sales or the brace issue, but I will follow the law if I have to do background checks on private sales, and I’ll SBR all of my AR style pistols. The show will go on.

 I can assure you that 2A issues were at or near the bottom of the  list for people voting for Biden and against Trump. 
 

I agree with @Erik88. Seems this thread is more about venting about things other that 2A issues, and is opening the door to the discord that we’ve avoided on TGO for several months. 

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2 hours ago, E4 No More said:

I believe a group tried something like that on January 6th, and most of the people here condemned them for it.

Rightly so

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