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Is 6 still enough for today's world


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I'm certainly no expert and have never been involved in a shooting. However, JMHO I think a lot of this high capacity stuff is fantasy from wannabes and tacticool operators who think all out war is gonna break out in the streets at any minute. Think about it. When was the last time you actually heard of a gunfight going more than maybe 3 or 4 rounds?

Now gangbangers routinely empty 16 rd magazines at each other. How many hits do they get? 

I remember here in Memphis maybe 15-20 years ago, a guy was attacked at a local mall. Victim pulled his own gun and shot the BG 16 times emptying his mag! Pumping about half into the BG after he was already down. 😲 Yep, the victim paniced and just kept shooting. It was ruled a good shoot eventually, but for a while there it was touch and go just due the number of rounds fired. The defender was almost toast by his own doing. 

I've been carrying a gun for about 30 years now. The vast majority of the time my carry gun held between 5 and 8 rounds. I do carry a reload, but I've never felt under gunned. 

Again JMHO, but I think if you actually were confronted by 20 BGs, once that first shot was fired, they'd scatter like a covey of quail. 😲

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I've always been a proponent of carrying plenty of ammo.  As was stated  several times above, better to have it and not need it than need it an not have it.  I carry with 15+1 in my EDC and an extra 15 round mag on my person.  Also keep several loaded extra mags in my bag along with a box of ammo and a maglula in there as well. Not to mention a NY reload.  Doubt very seriously I'll need any of it, but you never know.  I worry as much about a zombie apocalypse as i do about everyday threats, lol.  Seriously, there is a very real threat of a EMP type situation occurring, whether it be a solar flare or a nuke.  If I am miles away form home when it happens, it'll be a long walk home, possibly through dangerous territory.  I figure extra ammo may come in handy.

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On 5/1/2021 at 10:45 AM, loadedp3at said:

Not a caliber war. Just a question about the times and whether a small single stack of revolver is enough.

Never has been.

 

Minimum 12 rounds in a carry gun. I carry nothing smaller than 15 rounds.

 

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14 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I'm certainly no expert and have never been involved in a shooting. However, JMHO I think a lot of this high capacity stuff is fantasy from wannabes and tacticool operators who think all out war is gonna break out in the streets at any minute. Think about it. When was the last time you actually heard of a gunfight going more than maybe 3 or 4 rounds?

Now gangbangers routinely empty 16 rd magazines at each other. How many hits do they get? 

I remember here in Memphis maybe 15-20 years ago, a guy was attacked at a local mall. Victim pulled his own gun and shot the BG 16 times emptying his mag! Pumping about half into the BG after he was already down. 😲 Yep, the victim paniced and just kept shooting. It was ruled a good shoot eventually, but for a while there it was touch and go just due the number of rounds fired. The defender was almost toast by his own doing. 

I've been carrying a gun for about 30 years now. The vast majority of the time my carry gun held between 5 and 8 rounds. I do carry a reload, but I've never felt under gunned. 

Again JMHO, but I think if you actually were confronted by 20 BGs, once that first shot was fired, they'd scatter like a covey of quail. 😲

Depends on the 20, the kid in Kenosha was pursued even after taking one down, and the rest knew it.  I had not owned a revolver for some time, I now only own one, a 44 Mag hunting pistol.  So never gave much thought into how many rounds I carried, it was always full mag in the gun and one extra in the chamber.  Sometimes it's a 15+1, other times it's 13+1, with the extra mag and if going into "bad" areas or just on a long trip, then I have a rifle too.

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16 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

Again JMHO, but I think if you actually were confronted by 20 BGs, once that first shot was fired, they'd scatter like a covey of quail. 😲

Yes! First, they have to catch me. And if they do, then I'll have the element of surprise, not them 😉

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I carry as many rounds as comfortable depending upon what I'm wearing and the environment I plan on being at.  That may be anything from a  .380 LCP to a full-size M&P with 17 round mags. Usually a Shield and now a Shield- Plus.

But I always want to have an additional mag.  I believe that shooting under less than ideal circumstances, fighting off an attacker, shooting from different positions, ie retention, the possibility of a malfunction warrants having an additional magazine available.

 

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Posted (edited)

In my personal experience, I have felt the need for a handgun twice. Luckily, on both occasions, the mere act of drawing and taking a defensive stance quickly deescalated the situation. Both times, had I been forced to fight, I seriously doubt I had the skill or ammunition to prevail. Surprisingly, at the time, I did feel I had the commitment and determination to give it one helluva try.

Edited by gregintenn
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Posted (edited)

As alluded to previously. It isn't always about how many rounds your mag holds as it about how well you can shoot under stress. I haven't been in a gunfight, but shot a lot of USPSA, IDPA and ICORE and most folks don't realize if the crap hits the fan it won't be like at the range punching holes in paper. A BG or lots of BG's could be firing at you. I see guys that train tell us to run around for 10 minutes or so and get our heart rate up, then grab your gun and see how well you put hits at 15 yards. Just look at the stats of LEO's shooting they have a low hit factor most of the time. Trained LEO hit their target less than 30% of the time. So let's say you have a 15 round mag, 1 in the pipe your hit factor would be 4.8 times. So a 6 shot revolver goes down to 1.8 times. And seeing how you can't shoot a 0.8 round that equates to 4 times and 1 time. I shoot and carry both revolvers and bottom feeders, a revolver will most certainly get locked up by various things, a primer backing out some, any type of powder residue, and it sometimes takes a pretty good knock on the cylinder to get it open. Like others said better to have it and not need it. The comment about racking the slide on a shotgun to scare away a BG is a myth, these crackheads that just broke into your house are jacked up, so never give away your position if you haven't been located. As the pistols on my nightstand don't have a manual safety, they won't even hear a click! If it gets out of hand an 870 is within reach as well.

Edited by Dirtshooter
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27 minutes ago, Dirtshooter said:

As alluded to previously. It isn't always about how many rounds your mag holds as it about how well you can shoot under stress. I haven't been in a gunfight, but shot a lot of USPSA, IDPA and ICORE and most folks don't realize if the crap hits the fan it won't be like at the range punching holes in paper. A BG or lots of BG's could me firing at you. I see guys that train tell us to run around for 10 minutes or so and get our heart rate up, then grab your gun and see how well you put hits at 15 yards. Just look at the stats of LEO's shooting they have a low hit factor most of the time. Trained LEO hit their target less than 30% of the time. So let's say you have a 15 round mag, 1 in the pipe your hit factor would be 4.8 times. So a 6 shot revolver goes down to 1.8 times. And seeing how you can't shoot a 0.8 round that equates to 4 times and 1 time. I shoot and carry both revolvers and bottom feeders, a revolver will most certainly get locked up by various things, a primer backing out some, any type of powder residue, and it sometimes takes a pretty good knock on the cylinder to get it open. Like others said better to have it and not need it. The comment about racking the slide on a shotgun to scare away a BG is a myth, these crackheads that just broke into your house are jacked up, so never give away your position if you haven't been located. As the pistols on my nightstand don't have a manual safety, they won't even hear a click! If it gets out of hand an 870 is within reach as well.

Exactly! 
I’m under no illusion of being a gunfighter by any means, but I do value the opportunity to have a fighting chance. I believe a can do attitude, situational awareness, and the willingness to go through with what needs to be done will most often trump your count of rounds available.

If I were really expecting trouble, I would first prefer to be elsewhere, and if that failed, I would want a rifle.

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Posted (edited)

So far, I've never been in a civilian firefight, but have been in plenty in Vietnam. There is no such thing as too much ammo. Just because there was only 4 or 5 rounds fired this time, doesn't mean that will always be the case.

Funerals these days are much more expensive than ammo ( if you can find any ).

Like many things gun related, it's a personal choice. If you're comfortable with a six shooter, have at it. If you need 15+ to feel safe,  do that.

FWIW, I carried 400 rds for the M16 + 18 rds for the M203 Grenade launcher.

Sometimes, I was a bit concerned with that.

JMHO

Edited by Grunt67
add info
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There's a world of difference between a civilian self defense situation and war. For EDC, I'm quite comfortable with 5, 6 or 8 rounds. 

My SHTF gear is set up for a total of 9 rifle magazines. One in the rifle and 8 in pouches on my web gear. 

Gear up for the expected situation. 😉

 

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Posted (edited)

A little off topic, but somewhat related.  Lawlessness in Memphis has increased in the past year, especially on the interstate.  Just about every time I am on the interstate, I get the paint blown off my doors by someone (in cars, not on crotch rockets) doing WAY over 100 mph, probably 120-130.  I am used to drivers occasionally blowing by me even though I'm doing 75-80, but this is something new and completely over the top.  The cops' hands are tied due to no-pursuit policies.   I'm not sure what flavor of d-bag thinks he can stop interstate traffic for a bunch of 4-wheelers, but I imagine anyone who ran afoul of this group would want more than a revolver.  

https://wreg.com/news/dangerous-reckless-driver-records-what-he-calls-wild-funeral-procession-on-i-55/

Edited by deerslayer
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

There's a world of difference between a civilian self defense situation and war. For EDC, I'm quite comfortable with 5, 6 or 8 rounds. 

My SHTF gear is set up for a total of 9 rifle magazines. One in the rifle and 8 in pouches on my web gear. 

Gear up for the expected situation. 😉

 

I suspect that some of the victims of the riots in the past year might not agree with your first sentence.  The problem is that nobody truly knows what situation to expect whenever they walk out the front door.  Anything can happen anywhere, anytime.  

Edited by deerslayer
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4 hours ago, deerslayer said:

A little off topic, but somewhat related.  Lawlessness in Memphis has increased in the past year, especially on the interstate.  Just about every time I am on the interstate, I get the paint blown off my doors by someone (in cars, not on crotch rockets) doing WAY over 100 mph, probably 120-130.  I am used to drivers occasionally blowing by me even though I'm doing 75-80, but this is something new and completely over the top.  The cops' hands are tied due to no-pursuit policies.   I'm not sure what flavor of d-bag thinks he can stop interstate traffic for a bunch of 4-wheelers, but I imagine anyone who ran afoul of this group would want more than a revolver.  

https://wreg.com/news/dangerous-reckless-driver-records-what-he-calls-wild-funeral-procession-on-i-55/

This has been a "thing" for a while now in big cities. 50-100 people acting like idiots and I think they call it a takeover. I've even seen it on a smaller scale in Knoxville where 5-10 guys rode through the Old City on non-plated dirt bikes and ATVs. They blow through stop signs and disregard all traffic laws. 

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Ammo simply equals opportunity. If you only have 5 rounds then you only have 5 opportunities to change the behavior of how ever many persons that need their behavior changed. 

 Also pistols are simply harder to shoot accurately under stress than rifles or shotguns. Assuming that we might degrade 25% under extreme stress (some way more and some way less dependent upon recent relevant training and level they have internalized that training ) then we may not have 5 HITS to distribute among the bad guys. So it is pretty imperative that if we are going to roll with a limited capacity gun then our skill needs to make up for the deficiency in capacity. Especially when the trends are toward about half the time there being more than 1 bad guy. 

And a revolver reload is not something we often see happen in close range gunfights. Typically it is over one way or the other with what is in the first cylinder (or magazine of an auto pistol) ....that means you are most likely going to win or lose with what is in the gun. I'd simply prefer to have more opportunities in the gun than less and a 10 -15 opportunity pistol gives more chances of stopping someone than a 5 or 6 shot pistol. Math is math and it does not take the day off. 

AJ mentioned Tom Givens. When Tom and I met back in Jan 2006 he was still carrying a 1911 and 2 spare mags. By Jan 2007 he had switched to a Glock 35 and 2 spare mags. I asked him why he gave up the old technology and he said that he was about 97% as good with the G35 as he was with the 1911 and that the 1911 was a "2 person gun" where as the G35 was a "3 person gun" and with the crime data in Memphis showing about 3 multiple assailant aggravated assaults per day he felt better with more bullets than less bullets. As for me all that time I was rolling with a G34 with 20 in the gun and a spare 19rd mag. I kidded Tom that it was really me that had pushed him over the edge to the dark side and the G35. 

So what does all this mean? Whatever you want it to. I have no ego investment in what anyone carries. But simply put more ammo means more chances to change behavior and less time reloading. Having to reload mid gunfight suck and having to do it one handed because you are injured sucks even more. So I prefer to have enough on board capacity in the gun to solve most problems short of alien invasion or zombie apocalypse without having to reload. But then I'm more concerned with the folks that don't choose to stop than I am with the "statistical average". 

 

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On 5/4/2021 at 1:15 PM, Erik88 said:

This has been a "thing" for a while now in big cities. 50-100 people acting like idiots and I think they call it a takeover. I've even seen it on a smaller scale in Knoxville where 5-10 guys rode through the Old City on non-plated dirt bikes and ATVs. They blow through stop signs and disregard all traffic laws. 

In Caryville they call that crowd "beer run" 😁

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We are simply seeing things we simply have never seenin our lifetime.  " Tombstone " is becoming the norm where it had been tamped down for over 120 years. 

If the adults don't take the local and state gubts back over, even in places like Knoxburg, everybody may be carryin ARs, AKs, n Shotguns along with their pistolas wherever they go...

The adult political class of both flavors is gonna have ta quit coddling this trash n come down on em to restore the peace.

This spate of treating these gangs of hoodlums like " patriots " and slappin their wrists for criminal acts and intimidating folks they dont approve of needs to be over before Charles Manson's war begins...

leroy...

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10 minutes ago, ReeferMac said:

LOL @leroy! I agree with your sentiment but have come to the opposite conclusion. 

I believe it is their intent to increase the level of violence. You ain't seen nothing, yet.

Sadly, in " My Heart of Hearts " , i strongly feel the same way Brother... There are, indeed, places where this will happen... Let us hope n pray its not in our own back yards... SIGH...

leroy...

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