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Is 6 still enough for today's world


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Posted (edited)
On 5/3/2021 at 6:35 AM, Erik88 said:

I don't feel unsafe carrying my Kahr that's 7+1 but I recently got to handle a Springfield Hellcat and now I want one. 

Great minds...

I've pocket carried my Kahr PM9 for at least a decade now, 6+1 with 6 more in another pocket. Probably plenty. But I never had quite the same secure feeling of my first 3 years or so with an XD subbie carried IWB.

So got by Harvey's the other day,  first time in well over a year, and surprisingly they had just gotten some Hellcats. Compared to the PM it is .5" longer, all other dimensions same. No brainer, jumped on it. Soon as my Alabama pocket holster comes in, I'll be doing 11+1 plus whatever spare I decide on (Springfield is making a 15 rounder now, so that might be an option).

Also, though the Kahr is rather unique trigger which I don't hate, I do prefer the exact release point and short reset of the Hellcat.

I do wish they had named it something a bit less bellicose sounding just for the PR of carrying in general, but whatever.

- OS

Edited by Oh Shoot
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2 hours ago, E4 No More said:

Better to have too many than not enough.

Well put! 

Great question that has been debated probably since the first guns were invented. Heck, I bet before guns people debated how many arrows were enough. I pretty much go with "the gun you have with you is better than the one left at home". With that being said a full size auto with extra mag on your person is a good thing in today's times. Confidence in what you carry is important also. If it's a 5-6 shot revolver have at it. I think I've read before that most defensive gun use situations end without shots being fired. 

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16 hours ago, pop pop said:

I carry a 7 shot revolver. Trust it is enough. If going to a gun fight, I would take a shotgun or rifle.  Seven shooter is for forced emergencies only. 

" if going to a gun fight..."  I just wouldn't go.

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52 minutes ago, chances R said:

" if going to a gun fight..."  I just wouldn't go.

Well said chances R. That is the mindset of most folks. Try not to go into the places that would most probably be the most dangerous. We never know if or when danger will rear it's ugly head. I usually carry even when out in the garden or cutting the grass. Bad guys are opportunists and usually prey on the elderly, weak or the person that isn't aware of the situation. Be safe out there boys and girls, this isn't Kansas and it's not the wonderful world we grew up in.

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I carry a J frame 85% of the time and feel perfectly comfortable with that . If you can't hit what you are shooting at under stress and like to throw shots randomly like they do on TV then the answer is no . I do own autos but seldom carry them .

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On 6/8/2021 at 10:23 AM, Eddie Southgate said:

If you can't hit what you are shooting at under stress

Eddie I would like to know how you practice shooting under stress. Even trained LEO have a very low hit factor when involved in gunfights, something on the order of  20-30%. I have read lots of articles that say there is good evidence though that many CCW holders to be better shots that most LEO. I can attest to that, when I used to shoot USPSA matches we had several LEO come and go and only a couple stayed with the group and I think most left because they saw they were a lot poorer shots than the rest of the group. Most LEO only have to qualify 2 or 3 times per year and some that is all the shooting they do. I know for certain that practicing every chance you get does help.

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1 hour ago, Dirtshooter said:

Eddie I would like to know how you practice shooting under stress. Even trained LEO have a very low hit factor when involved in gunfights, something on the order of  20-30%. I have read lots of articles that say there is good evidence though that many CCW holders to be better shots that most LEO. I can attest to that, when I used to shoot USPSA matches we had several LEO come and go and only a couple stayed with the group and I think most left because they saw they were a lot poorer shots than the rest of the group. Most LEO only have to qualify 2 or 3 times per year and some that is all the shooting they do. I know for certain that practicing every chance you get does help.

I don't think it's because they are basically poor shots, but how they train.  I talked to retiring officer back when I was getting my HCP.  We had just been through the range with his job the weekend before and I honestly had a much smaller group than he did.  And he had just come off the range the previous weekend, where he had personally burned up about a 1000 rounds through his issue Glock (his words).  He told me that they are trained to point shoot rather than aim and fire multiple rounds. They basically train to draw and have rounds down range as fast as possible and did not worry about grouping.  He even said they trained to aim low, in order to hit under any armored vests and hoping for arterial hits, for bleed outs.

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On 6/10/2021 at 10:08 AM, Dirtshooter said:

Eddie I would like to know how you practice shooting under stress. Even trained LEO have a very low hit factor when involved in gunfights, something on the order of  20-30%. I have read lots of articles that say there is good evidence though that many CCW holders to be better shots that most LEO. I can attest to that, when I used to shoot USPSA matches we had several LEO come and go and only a couple stayed with the group and I think most left because they saw they were a lot poorer shots than the rest of the group. Most LEO only have to qualify 2 or 3 times per year and some that is all the shooting they do. I know for certain that practicing every chance you get does help.

You can't . You can improve your skills by playing some of the tactical shooting games and going to school but in the end your mind set determines how you will react to having a gun pulled on you or being shot at .

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/1/2021 at 10:45 AM, loadedp3at said:

Not a caliber war. Just a question about the times and whether a small single stack of revolver is enough.

I haven't read the previous posts but I'll say this. COMFORT RULES !!!!  My Ruger LCP holds 6+1 and I carry one in the chamber so that's 7 rds. This gun is thin and small. It fits in my front pocket with ease in a pocket holster by DeSantis. Lets be honest , when your wife or husband wants you to go to the store to grab something at an unexpected time like while you are working on something or mowing the yard , I don't want to put on my thick gun belt and load up a leather holster. I love big guns and carry them like a G21 , G17 , 1911 , and so on . But the ease of the small LCP at the last minute of the wife telling me to make a grocery store for ice cream is perfect. If in doubt carry a spare mag. It's like wearing body armor. If it ain't comfortable you ain't going to wear it. I wore the same POS vest for 5 years because I didn't want to complain and stand out as a complainer but after 5 years I said the hell with that and I got my new vest cut the way that it fits my body , my workplace  sent it back to the company twice for cuts.  Bottom line is that if a gun isn't comfortable carrying it then you more than likely wont carry it all the time. A gun with a small capacity is  better than no gun . 

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On 7/3/2021 at 10:03 AM, tercel89 said:

I don't want to put on my thick gun belt and load up a leather holster.

I solved this by always wearing my gun belt and leather holster when not in the house... and normally wearing it in the house too.

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Posted (edited)

If 34 people attack at once then even a Glock 9mm with a 33 round mag is not enough. 

Every armed defense class I have had presumes one or two attackers. 

IDPA sometimes uses multiple target scenarios, but I don’t carry in case an IDPA match suddenly comes at me on the street (humor).

Carry what you are comfortable with

Edited by JustEd
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9 hours ago, billmeek said:

I solved this by always wearing my gun belt and leather holster when not in the house... and normally wearing it in the house too.

I wear a heavy duty belt at work with a radio, g17 , 3 loaded mags and lots of other tools so when I'm off and at home I ain't wearing squat except sweat pants lol. 

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My carry gun is a G23.4. My feeling is that it's possible to buy one heck of a good auto  for less bucks than good revolver. Also, it hard to have a choice of 6 or more than 6 without discussing caliber. As to needs of a carry firearm, it would be necessary to consult my crystal ball. What ever it is one needs to be proficient. Actually,  that's the first requirement.  Remember what you saw in your carry class?

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Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2021 at 5:23 PM, Beltfed said:

In my home, I’m a revolver fan.  Out on the road where I’m alert, it’s a auto.

I have different guns for different places.  I'm working from home right now and have on a 1911 in an old Jackass shoulder holster.  There is an FNH FNS beside my bed and I have a vest that I wear that has a S&W 442 in it that I throw on, when I do to the store.  And yesterday, I carried a Ruger LC9S Pro, which actually is my normal carry pistol. And I hike with a Taurus .357 Tracker with a 4 inch barrel in a Recon Pouch on my chest.

I'm one of those that has different pistols for different things. I'm odd.  but I'm comfortable with either a revolver or a semi-auto.  Doesn't matter which.

Edited by Moped
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15 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

That a brand or a type or what, google no help.

- OS

It's actually called a recon pouch. My bad. As old age creeps in, the brain power flags at times. This is the one I bought and use. I also carry a first aid kit in it along with two speed loaders.

Amazon.com : WYNEX Recon Kit Bag, Tactical Combat Chest Pack Molle Vest Bags Front Pouch Camouflage Airsoft Harness Holster Multi-Purpose Daypack Concealed EDC Carry Pouch with Basketball Pattern Hook and Loop Pan : Clothing

My understanding is the Rangers at Tennessee State Parks are using a version of this, in the back country, as well, made by Hill People Gear. I had a off duty ranger from Cummins Falls tell me that. 

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The six-shot revolver is enough for probably 97% of the scenarios any of us will encounter while out and about in our everyday lives.  Until the data that has validated this for a ridiculously long time shows otherwise, I wouldn't get too over analytical on conjecture.  If we truly need more, the spidey sense should be tingling before the  real life range is hot and an egress is the far better option.  Seeing some BLM/Antifa mobs on TV shouldn't fear drive everyday decision making if you're otherwise practicing good situational awareness.

Edited by btq96r
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, btq96r said:

The six-shot revolver is enough for probably 97% of the scenarios any of us will encounter while out and about in our everyday lives.  Until the data that has validated this for a ridiculously long time shows otherwise, I wouldn't get too over analytical on conjecture.  If we truly need more, the spidey sense should be tingling before the  real life range is hot and an egress is the far better option.  Seeing some BLM/Antifa mobs on TV shouldn't fear drive everyday decision making if you're otherwise practicing good situational awareness.

I’d start reevaluating that thought process if I were you. 
 

If you’re talking about the 3 shot, 3 seconds, 3 yards bit, that’s an often repeated, but wholly incorrect piece of data that is far more myth than fact. The data used to build that stat comes from NYC officer involved shootings when revolvers were the standard issue sidearm. More recent data is that the number is around 8 rounds fired. 
 

Still, that doesn’t negate the need to carry a spare magazine to fix a malfunction were one to occur.


 

 

Edited by Chucktshoes
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44 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Can I get a link to review that, please?

I don’t have it immediately at hand. It was initially relayed to me by trustworthy sources, and I remember seeing it then, but I didn’t bookmark it. I’ll post it once I can find it again. 

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