This is where we fight? Confiscation topic.

[Guest jackdog]

This is becoming an interesting and informative thread

[Guest Jason F.]

The legal change to the constitution is such a non probable and long term scenario that if it were to ever happen I would comply or leave. I would have had plenty of time to be aware of such change that I could make that decision ahead of time. If there is enough "America" left to make it worth staying then I would have to find a way to live here without my guns. If there was no country left worth fighting for, entirely possible if things have gotten bad enough the constitution is getting changed around, I might just have to set sail on the ocean blue.

In the scenario that is far more probable and some sort of martial law is enacted they would be knocking on the door of an empty house if they came for my guns. I have no doubt I can react faster than the Government and if some sort of natural disaster were to strike I would already be on the road. If the car could not make it out I would be on the motorcycle and if the street bike could not make it out the dirt bike could. What guns, family photos, and other important things that I could pack would be with me.

I might have to leave a few things behind but they are just things.

[Punisher84]

You know I posted this and half thought it would be anarchy 6 posts in, but what a lively, intelligent discussion it has become! Good to see the TGO group is unlike some of those OTHER forums.

I agree with Len heavily. Education is the key. Now is the time for books and words. Now is the time for guidance and intelligence. Hopefully we will never reach a time where that is lost and it is once again time for sword and shield.

(Figuratively speaking of course.)

[Guest Archimedes]

There are about 300 million people in this great country.

Anyone have any idea how many of those 300 mil are armed?

How many are in the armed forces and how many of those in the armed forces would go along with gun confiscation?

Very interesting topic.

~Archi

[SkWaShDeM]

The government believes there are around 210 legal firearms, and a further 50 million unlawful firearms in the country. 260 million firearms. Owned by between 80-100 million citizens. I think. It's 0753 and I don't think well until my morning caffeine fix has had time to kick in, so I could be thinking the wrong statistics, but that sounds right.

Len: Couldn't agree more with you. Lotto scholarships, while great in theory, have been murderous in practice to the students. Too many students lose them because they were babied through high school and haven't learned how to study or really pay attention to the world around them. A lot of my classmates get their evening news from The Daily Show, which scares me.

[Guest Ghostrider]

Now you've gotten my attention.

I'm afraid we have already lost the "battle that never was" for public school education. At home education is extremely spotty as the number of parents who give a damn is dropping like the Hindenberg.

My biggest fear is when these "know nothings" come to be in charge of the government.

I could site numerous examples, but just two spring to my mind.

1. The japanese are now teaching their children that there is a "question" that their soldiers did anything wrong in japan. source: http://hnn.us/articles/14566.html

2. If you want a good look at just how bad the education system was a few years ago, (and I'm sure it's worse by now), read The Language Police. I forget the authors name, but she's a big time lesbian and seems proud of it. If you can get past that, it's a pretty interesting read on what is "allowed" to be taught and how the information in text books is sanitized and how text books actually get into schools. I found it interesting, but depressing.

[Marswolf]

Len, I think you misspoke. Amendments need ratification by 3/4 of the state legislatures. Just picking nits.

I had an Engineering assistant-dean at UT named Bill Lyday. Dean Lyday told me the greatest indication of success in college was high school grade point average. And the people with the highest average weren't always the smartest people. Basically it comes down to work ethic. If you are willing to work for the grades, you will get them and be successful at college and probably at life.

The "education lottery" is another matter. I think the lottery money should go in the general fund.

[Guest Shay VanVlymen]

I can't comment on when to stand up and say, "Enough is enough!" That is a line in the sand each of us must draw individually. I believe we are headed toward a tipping point.

Something I'd like to add is that the WILL to stand up is not the same thing as the SKILL to stand up. I've been docked here (and other places) for being an unapologetic advocate for training but for those of you thinking that you may have to someday defend your rights against a better armed and better trained force might want to take a serious look at your own abilities. The time to get training is before you need it.

[Guest Fuel]

I could site numerous examples, but just two spring to my mind.

1. The japanese are now teaching their children that there is a "question" that their soldiers did anything wrong in japan. source: http://hnn.us/articles/14566.html

Words fail me after reading that.

[SkWaShDeM]

Marswolf, it may have been true then that high school GPA had more to do with college success than anything else, but not anymore, at least not for most of the people I've come in contact with in college.

I had a 3.5 GPA in high school and was ranked 33rd in my class of 151 people. 13 people had 4.0 GPAs and were named valedictorian, 7 of those failed out of college by our sophomore year. 6 of those 7 were football and basketball players from both locker rooms. They were babied through high school so their athletic eligibility wouldn't be taken away.

The lotto scholarship increased the babying of high school students to include more of the student body is all. Look at the statistics for how many kids lose their lotto scholarship after the first year.

If anyone's got a kid considering ETSU, feel free to pass this on, but this is what I tell any freshman I meet, or any high school senior on a tour who stops me to ask what I think of ETSU.

1) Your adviser won't help you at all, ignore him after he gives you the handy little check sheet that tells you every class you have to have to graduate.

2) Make friends with a senior and get them to teach you how to schedule your classes properly.

3.) Don't take more than 15 hours per semester, period, Only take 12 or 13 if your wallet can deal with you being a fifth year senior.

4.) Don't take Prob & Stats if your major doesn't require it, take Analytic Geometry instead. 50% of any given section will fail Prob & Stats regardless of how hard they try.

5.) Just because you're in a BS program, doesn't mean you have to get your Gen Ed science classes from the "For Majors" side, you can take from the "Non-Science Majors Only" ones. They're easier. Much easier.

6.) For your first two semesters, take Basic Military PT from the ROTC guys and don't skip class. You'll thank me when you're a sophomore.

[molonlabetn]

Nowadays, public education is more about training students to regurgitate the filtered and coloured 'facts' which are recited to them.

Problem solving and basic reasoning are down-played... multiple-choice questions are the name of the game. Meanwhile, we are surrounded by oblivious masses of young people who couldn't care less about truth.

It's all about the perception of knowledge, without responsibility or wisdom.

As one young man who was educated at home from 4th grade until high-school graduation by a mother and father who's sole purpose was to instill in me the tools and the drive to find answers for myself; it is frustrating to see the 'successful' lemmings around me every day, following the influences of society, without any self-conceived notion of HOW or WHY their existence is significant... Only caring about how they 'feel', and how they are percieved...

This country has been reduced to a popularity contest, meanwhile liberty dies.

[Marswolf]

Hey, that sounds like some good practical advice, skwashdem.

[SkWaShDeM]

After 5 years of college, I only wish I could've followed my own advice when I started. (=

[saintsfanbrian]

This country has been reduced to a popularity contest, meanwhile liberty dies.

If you don't believe this statement is true, turn on night time television and see how many "contest" shows there are that have votes to decide who gets to stay and who has to leave.

Survivor

American Idol

The Apprentice

The American Dream

Then there are the touchy feely shows like Extreme Home Makeover, where some person who may or may not deserve it gets a free home etc.

It really does sicken me to see the plight that we are in. It also assures me that my children are going to be home schooled.

[Guest Len]

Man, this is turning into a great thread!

(It must be my awesome moderation skills at work! )

Anyhow, I stand corrected on the number of states required tro pass a constitutional amendment, I "mis-typed", it is 3/4. Considering the polarized nature of our country right now (I blame sound-bite politics, but that's another thread...), I can't imagine any type of constitutional change being adopted in the near or medium term.

A couple of points here and there intrigued me:

1) The Language Police: The Language Police: How Pressure Groups Restrict What Students Learn by Diane Ravitch. Truly a scary read if you care about what your kids learn and how its decided what they learn. Not only is curriculum dumbed down, but it is sanitized to be palatable to all the special interests out there. Science is no longer science, but politics. Same with history, economics, language, literature, etc.

2) The popularity contest: This permeates society. Every city/town/county now likes to talk about how their schools are so great -easy to say when you can manipulate No Child Left Behind data and TCAP scores most anyway you want. And when the media reports "bad" data, it is white-washed away by saying things like "we'e fixing that issue" or "disagree with that assessment" so the Chamber of Commerce types dont freak out because the new factory will move to a town with better schools for their employees kids. Everyone says they are "for" education, but no one seems to want to really get at the root of the problem: poorly prepared teachers teaching poorly prepared kids in sub-satisfactory facilities with old textbooks.

We need to fix our teacher colleges, improve the perception of the teaching profession, and fix home/social problems that keep kids from learning/wanting to learn. This is HARD -we cant just simply throw more money at the problem -there are root social issues that must be dealt with. Fix those and MANY of today's problems will go away.

3) High school GPA: Totally depends on the high school. I have seen valedictorians in remedial classes and kids who barely passed write beautiful prose. Depends even more on the desire to learn/will to learn/kid seeing the advantage of learning. If you are in school 'cause mom and dad made you go, its not likely you will succeed. If you are in school 'cause you want to be there and have a love of learning or the will to be successful, you will be.

[Guest Jason F.]

I thought we were talking about guns here?

j/k good quality thread drift is ok in my book.

[Marswolf]

I thought we were talking about guns here?

Boy, are you confused....

Remember in my HS GPA post I was talking about just engineering students. And my guess is that only 5% of freshman engineering students understand what engineering is really about. Of course that's 5% more than the students in other curricula.

[saintsfanbrian]

It is rather amazing at what people discuss that are supposedly educated.

I had a Biology teacher sophomore year of high school that spread the quote:

"Small minds talk about people, large minds talk about things, great minds talk about ideas."

That being said, I guess it shows how small minded most people are when Britney Spears being out of rehab is a major story on the morning news.

Just my 2 cents worth, but this is the reason that confiscation and reduction or rights could happen. People that are uninformed making decisions for the rest of us.

[Guest Len]

Well said Brian!

It is rather amazing at what people discuss that are supposedly educated.

I had a Biology teacher sophomore year of high school that spread the quote:

"Small minds talk about people, large minds talk about things, great minds talk about ideas."

That being said, I guess it shows how small minded most people are when Britney Spears being out of rehab is a major story on the morning news.

Just my 2 cents worth, but this is the reason that confiscation and reduction or rights could happen. People that are uninformed making decisions for the rest of us.

[Guest Shane]

First let me say this, I don't wish for this thread to become a tin foil hat, the government is out to get us type of discussion, but I do wish to discuss something.

I've always thought about it, ever increasingly lately, but after watching 300 yesterday a thought came to me. How many of us would stand and fight?

If the government actually said we are confiscating your firearms and taking a right away from you, how many gun owners would stand against the military and police? Would we line up and scream COME AND TAKE THEM as loud as we could? Would we fight until we won or had all died fighting?

It may never happen, especially not in our lifetime, but that's not to say it can't. I don't mean for everyone to come out saying I'd fight or YEA I'D KILL EM ALL! I just wonder how many gun owners think about these things.

What does Molon Labe mean to you?

I believe it will happen in my lifetime and I am trying to train myself so that I will respond properly to any type of situation that may arise during widespread pandemonium. I also expect the majority of people to say they will stand up and fight for a virtuous motive but when it is time to fight I expect them to surrender because there are few people that have the proper mindset. I also believe in order to effectively fight back you have to be prepared to die and be comfortable with that decision.

[Guest jackdog]

jack's 1.5 cents(sorry can't afford two. For years the politicians have been moving or trying to move this country to a democracy (mob rule), rather than a democracy. Our current education system, our lack of border enforcement and immigration, our inability to win the drug war, are all closely related. Our politicians regardless of party are all bought and paid for by lobbyists who represent, the mega companies in the world market. They want Americans to be dumb, to care more about American Idol than education. We are becoming a nation were it's citizens are overweight, under educated and have no sense of self or pride in this great nation. Will these people fight. No they are the sheeple, and there ranks are forever growing. will we end up in some sort of civil war, I fear so and I think it is closer than we now think. I will not live under tyranny or oppression thus I would fight, but I would fight in an intelligent manner.

[Punisher84]

I also believe in order to effectively fight back you have to be prepared to die and be comfortable with that decision.

You know I've thought about this alot, especially when I was in the Army and facing deployment to Iraq. I know that i don't want to die. I know that I wouldn't lay down and die. I also know there are things worse than death. To give up freedom and bow to a tyrannous rule is something that is worse than death for me. Death is a path we all must take. I don't wanna rush down the path, but I will not crawl towards it on my knees either.

[Guest db99wj]

You have to look at yourself and see what is important. Myself, my priority is my wife and children. Whatever the situation is, I will have to decide my course of action based on the safety and security of my family. I might have to "retreat" and fight another day. And it might be that my post earlier of where I have to take a certain number paces to dig up my stuff.

As has been said, I don't want to die, I'm not going to lie down and go without a fight, but I am not going to rush down that path as SSSTactical said above.

[Guest jackdog]

For those of us who said we would fight, I don't believe any of us are stupid or suicidial. There are ways to fight and survive against an overwelming force.

Our Revolution proves this to be a fact. Ho chi men gave both the french and americans a lesson in this type of warfare.

And Iraq is proof that insurgencies are damn hard to deal with.

[Guest jackdog]

government announces confiscation of weapons.

Step 1. hide all weapons and ammo

Step 2. call local law enforcement and report above items stolen.

Step 3. Attack in small units on smaller government units. Take their weapons, which are probably superior to yours.

Hit and run be allusive. Now picture this happening in 100's of places across America. daily.