Best guns to stock up on

[Oh Shoot]

Prag- I thought about the hipoints because of the cost and I own a couple and do like them but the max mag is 10rounds. You can get ones a little bigger but they are not at all reliable. I might get a couple of hipoints to stash on th property for emergency back up if caught out of the safe house.

Get a Sub2000 if you pick a semi auto that's compatible. Glock makes 33 round 9mm mags, Beretta makes a 30.

- OS

[Jamie Jackson]

Prag- I thought about the hipoints because of the cost and I own a couple and do like them but the max mag is 10rounds. You can get ones a little bigger but they are not at all reliable. I might get a couple of hipoints to stash on th property for emergency back up if caught out of the safe house.

Like I mentioned, with all of the praise (and condemnation) Hi Points receive, it has certainly peaked my interest. I wasn't aware of the 10 round mag limitation. That's the reason the Kel Tec K2 looks pretty decent to me.

I'm still learning to use the software here...I cut off a portion of my original reply, and that was by following your budget and parameters, you may still be able to come in "under budget" and have apportioned funds set aside for additional ammo, or more importantly, training for your group.

It sounds like you are thinking things through pretty well Sir.

[Jamie Jackson]

Get a Sub2000 if you pick a semi auto that's compatible. Glock makes 33 round 9mm mags, Beretta makes a 30.

- OS

I'm slow on the keyboard...

I have several of the 33 rd Glock (and KCI) mags that have proven very reliable in my G19 & G17. (The KCI are range use only.)

But the 33 rd mags are definitely a reason to lean toward the Kel Tec.

[LI0NSFAN]

I have left my KCI for the range as well but have had no problems so they are an option for me.

[Superman]

I have a couple. I think they will feed the first round or 2 reliably

[JAB]

I would like to have a .357 lever carbine to have ammo commonality with my .357 revolver. I believe .357 to be the most versatile, commonly available caliber and a .357 revolver to be the most versatile, commonly available handgun.

Until then, however, I have a Hi-Point 995TS that has ammo compability with my Ruger P95. I do not trust any semiauto as much as a good revolver but if I were going to say that any semi was 'revolver reliable' it would be that Ruger - and it is built like a tank to boot, not to mention not very expensive, especially if you find one used. The Hi-Point is accurate and, so far, very reliable. Its main drawback is that the factory mags hold only ten rounds. ProMag makes a fifteen rounder but they are said to be very hit or miss for functionality. Of course, if you are mostly defending and not going out looking for trouble (as would be the case with me, as well) then that might not be such a huge problem. There is also a mag holder made for use with the TS stock that allows one to carry two extra mags onboard. That plus the P95 with a sixteen round mag in it and a couple of extra sixteen rounders on the belt would be quite a bit of short to mid-range firepower, IMO for not a lot of money.

For 'longer' ranges, honestly, even my lever 30-30 would probably work for any 'longer' range work I might need. Heck, to be truthful a .357 lever would likely do the trick as, like you, I wouldn't be running around looking for trouble and where I live I don't think I'd have anything over a 100 yard clear shot in any direction (if that.) For a .22, I'd likely go with my Henry lever over my semiautos. I mostly learned to shoot a rifle on a lever 30-30 so that is the platform I like and am best with. Within 25 yards or so, on a good day, I can shoot that Henry with no optic better than I can shoot most scoped semiatuo .22s. If I had a lever .357 and went with my lever 30-30 as the longer range/more punch gun then going with the Henry would also give the advantage that all the long guns would be the same platform and operating them would be the same. That would simplify things to getting really good with a revolver and one carbine/rifle platform.

Edited March 21, 2012 by JAB

[LI0NSFAN]

The more I think about the 357 route, I like it. I LOVE the reliability of wheelgun and levergun option.

[Oh Shoot]

The more I think about the 357 route, I like it. I LOVE the reliability of wheelgun and levergun option.

My favorite .357 pair:

The Blackhawk has the 9mm cylinder also, so there's one more caliber for compatibility. Of course both shoot .38 special also.

- OS

[Whistle4Fly]

Someone mentioned an AR along with a .22 conversion kit. I carry a .22 in my BOB and my kids are all good with .22s so I made the decision to add a conversion kit along with 3 extra mags. I'd like to hear other thoughts on this.

[LI0NSFAN]

OS- that is a nice combo.

Cdukes- My primary concern with that is that you now require everyone in your group to have the knowledge to make the switch. I know its easy but people that are not normally around guns and are under pressure may find this frustrating. Plus you run into the issue of if anything happens to the lower you are now out 2 guns. My second concern for this project is cost. to get even a low end ar (if availible) or build one, after buying the 22 upper you are now near or over 1000 and have only 1 mag for 22lr that holds ten. My original reason for not using the ar platform is that I could not find one (in stock and availible) that I did not have to buy extra parts for near $1000otd and that eats alot of the budget. When getting 5 people armed, budget came into play. If I was just arming me, AR would be my primary.

[Jonnin]

Is nonna my business, but what do you already have? I think compared to most people I have a large number of firearms, so I really do not have a perspective on what normal people have. I think I can lay my hands on close to 40. If you are like me and have "extra" .... maybe you can use some of them?

Again, I said it before, but you do not have to have an AR to get a semi auto 223 or 308, and a SKS with a couple of tins of ammo is a very cheap option. The AK and its friends has been proven in battle time and time again --- used by teenage boys in some areas, even young girls in a few places, and some of those were the full auto guns. I would bet your wife & kids can handle such.

[LI0NSFAN]

I have a decent collection but most are hunting rifles. I have near 20 but no doubles of any one gun. So no matter the route I go I would have to buy at least 4 of each gun. I agree on getting the 223 or 308 in something other than the AR but all the AR slappies keep post to get an AR. I like the platform but the cost does not out weight the benefits, Especially when you can get a quality rifle in same caliber for half the price.

[Jonnin]

still just tossing stuff around....

remember that if you buy 3 at once, you only pay 1 background.

You might can find a dealer that will cut you slack for buying all this stuff. One of those 'the more you buy, the more you save' things? Esp duplicates.

Given the sheer amount of money you are talking about, what if you got your OWN FFL? You would have to do paperwork, but you could cut your costs by 30% or more at some expense for the liscense. I think if I were looking to buy 20 guns in one year, I would do it. You also get a cut rate on the ammo!!

[LI0NSFAN]

I am looking into the details of the FFL. I know it would save the money just not sure I want the potential hassle.

[JAB]

I don't own an AR or anything else in .223 - nor do I have a strong desire to do so. In fact, if I had the cash to drop on a semiauto .223, I'd be much more likely to go with one of the various Ruger Ranch/Mini 14 rifles. If I decided I just wanted 'something' that would shoot .223 right now then I'd look really closely at bolt action hunting type rifles so chambered. This one from Academy, for instance (although I really don't like rifles that don't have at least some type of iron sights):

http://www.academy.c...1_-1?N=39632024

Not a bad price. I'd still rather have a .357 lever as I think it would be more useful for me. That said, if going for a bolt action/scoped gun I'd probably lean toward something in a heavier caliber. Maybe something like this:

http://www.academy.c...1_-1?N=39632024

I don't know anything specifically about the above, two rifles. Magazine capacity isn't very large for either but for defending at longer ranges it might not matter. I was just thinking that, based on your stated budget per person, this 30-06 might be a good candidate for longer range work. Just a few bucks more than the .223 and this one comes with a scope. If there is anything in this area that a 30-06 can't handle, I don't want to meet it.

Edited March 22, 2012 by JAB

[LI0NSFAN]

I am with you I think that spending a little more and getting a 30-06 or 308 would be a better choice. I like the mini14 over the AR, but I have eleminated the 223. cal from the mix. It really looks like I am going for 357mag in revolver, 357mag lever rifle, mossberg 308 bolt action, ruger 10/22

[Jonnin]

mini 14 is very difficult to reload is all. The mags go in, they click, but still may not be seated right and you do not know until it tries to feed off the mag and gets nothing in the chamber. Otherwise a very sweet gun.

The mosin and the 308 are on par, but the 308 is probably going to cost more. Recoil is a wash -- mosin kicks harder because of the lack of recoil pad, not because of the caliber. You can get a rubber slip on pad for not much and walk out ahead on ammo price & gun cost. Only reason to get 308 IMHO is to go semi auto (which you can do on the cheap... FA91 for example is a cheap gun in used condition). The others I agree with but a BA 308, while a fine gun, is questionable in terms of usability for the family and average price (buying them new). Not sure what to say but if the wife/kids are weaker, a 308 may be too much ?? Have they tried to use a gun with this much kick? (and it follows that if the 308 is too much so is the mosin).

Edited March 22, 2012 by Jonnin

[JAB]

I am with you I think that spending a little more and getting a 30-06 or 308 would be a better choice. I like the mini14 over the AR, but I have eleminated the 223. cal from the mix. It really looks like I am going for 357mag in revolver, 357mag lever rifle, mossberg 308 bolt action, ruger 10/22

If nothing else, those should be some fun guns to shoot while you and your group are practicing and becoming familiar with them.

[LI0NSFAN]

Jonnin- The wife has shot the mossberg 308 and the nagant, she prefers the mossberg. Also the Nagant weights almost double than a synthetic stock mossberg. I have had several nagants and none of them shoot the same and may be harder to get sighted in for each person. A newer gun has a more consistant shot and esier to sight in for an individual. Plus all the time to clean the nagants up when you get them, I will be doing all the cleaning if I get them.

JAB it will be fun training.

[Jonnin]

Yes, if the extra money isnt an issue I would rather have the mossy too. If she has shot it and can handle it, then the 4 you have listed sound excellent.

[LI0NSFAN]

Here is how I rank importance for choosing these guns

1. compatability- I wan't to have as little different calibers to stock up on, mags must swap between carbine and hangun a must, if I go semi auto route

2. ease of use- I have to train 3 non gun people. Think about teaching your 90 yr old grandma that doesn't speak english. I am not but if she can learn it anyone can

3. cost- I could have a great set up for 4000 a person, I just dont have that kind of money. No single gun over $700 as that is a good chunk of the budget for one gun.

4. reliability- I do not want to have to worry if it is going to go bang every time, meaning guns that are picky on ammo are out

5. ammo availibility and cost- do not want to buy ammo as it comes available. Should be able to go and pick up 1000 rounds as needed at a reasonable price

6. abuse on the body- My wife is 100lbs she can hold her own but a sore shoulder may hamper effectiveness. Same for the 2 kids they are under 15yrs old and small

7. availability- I am not looking at a gun that is on back order When I figure out what I want I will be getting 5, I would like to go to one place and get it. I under stand shipping as a delay but don't need a gun that takes 8-10 weeks to get in.

I have used this as a guideline for choosing and if it does not meet ALL it does not fit this project.

[LI0NSFAN]

The difference between the mossy and getting a nagant and ati stock(to reduce weight) is not that much. Sad as it is Nagants around here are not $100 anymore. the last couple time I have seen them they are asking $130 and after ATI stock it is close to $200.

[gjohnsoniv]

Go out to Rocky Top Armory, they have them for 120. I know that's not much of a difference but it's something.

Edited March 22, 2012 by gjohnsoniv

[Jonnin]

its #6.... 15 year olds with 308s? I can shoot mine 10 times with standard ammo and I am DONE for the day. I still hesitate on this caliber for young, weak, or 'non gun' people. That is the only thing that still concerns me about the setup. A 30-30 is even too much for more than a few rounds --- my wife shot her 30-30 a bunch (30 rounds or so?) one day and was bad sore for a week (6 foot and 175 or so for her if weight and height matter?).

I guess if you put that much firepower downrange, things are bad enough that a sore shoulder is a small price to pay for survival, and you will be glad to have had these weapons. But if you really, really think you need an extended long range highpower shootout plan that could last for days or something, a 243 would be a lot kinder to these shooters, at a cost of more $$ per shot. Seems like a very, very unlikely scenario to have to shoot many, many rounds of this type of ammo. If that is happening, things are very bad indeed.

[LI0NSFAN]

GJ- thanks for the heads up, I may pick some up just for fun anyway. keep them in th safe house JIC for me to shoot.

Jonin-I have not heard much about 243 so I am looking into the 243. The long range rifle is for a ridge top that is about 300yds from the safe house. It is the highest point in the area we are the second. I don't expect to use the long range but I would rather have it then not. Me and the other hunter in the group both prefer the 308 round and we know what we can do with it. I am only getting 5 of those so we have already loaded back ups for 2 of us so the others can reload. I don't want to get into a situation where the wife and kids have to shoot it but can if they have to.