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charlessummers

Woman kills herself with .500 Magnum

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Sorry to hear that. It's a shame for her to loose her life during what should have been a fun day at the range. I've seen this almost happen both in person & on the internet. Unfortunately youtube is full of videos where some poor girl's boyfriend talks her into shooting his .44 or .500, etc. just to watch her, often painful, reaction. I've seen several vids of girls shooting & the gun flips over toward her face or flys out of her hands.

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This sort of thing pisses me off. This was an entirely avoidable tragedy if not for some idiot who thought it would be funny to hand an inexperienced shooter the biggest damn gun he could without even thinking "hey, let's be on the safe side and load just one round in the thing in case she loses control of it." Youtube is full of videos where the person being filmed managed to avoid this poor woman's fate by nothing more than sheer luck. The person who put that gun in her hands should be charged with negligent homicide as this outcome was entirely foreseeable. 

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New shooter = 1 round with instruction

Relatively new shooter with big gun = 1 round with warning on recoil

Experienced shooter with a new big gun = "Have you ever shot one of these? It recoils like a mf'r."

 

I always ALWAYS explain to new shooters what is going to take place. They never get more than one round until they are comfortable, Ill usually load 3 or 4 mags with one round and in revolvers one round, at first. I dont like even joking around with a gun on the range. As far as I am concerned, live fire on a range is serious business, no room for playing around, but have fun, too easy to get killed. 

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The recoil was enough to not only flip that huge gun but to pull the trigger DA with redirected energy???   Trying to imagine that much recoil and drawing a blank... its a heavy frame and compensated to boot....  must be about 4x a 44 mag or something insane!

 

This sucks, regardless.  A totally unnecessary death. 

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Sorry, I can't conceive of a way to pull a trigger, have the gun flip all the way back into my face, and then pull the trigger again.

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Sorry, I can't conceive of a way to pull a trigger, have the gun flip all the way back into my face, and then pull the trigger again.

 

Finger still through the trigger guard maybe? Gun fires, she has no grip, lets loose, and finger stays inside the guard because shes afraid to drop it and bang. Purely speculative of course, but thats the only way I could see it happening. Like a cowboy twirling only the force from the recoil. 

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Finger still through the trigger guard maybe? Gun fires, she has no grip, lets loose, and finger stays inside the guard because shes afraid to drop it and bang. Purely speculative of course, but thats the only way I could see it happening. Like a cowboy twirling only the force from the recoil. 

 

I am trying to imagine this but I am not seeing it.  You are talking about enough recoil to rotate the gun 180 and then pull probably 5+ pounds of DA over an inch of springs and such.   Path of least resistance.... it should continue to rotate rather than suddenly move linearly.

 

Thinking on it, all I am coming up with is losing control and grabbing it, and in the process of trying to grab the gun, squeezing hard. 

Edited by Jonnin
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I am trying to imagine this but I am not seeing it.  You are talking about enough recoil to rotate the gun 180 and then pull probably 5+ pounds of DA over an inch of springs and such.   Path of least resistance.... it should continue to rotate rather than suddenly move linearly.

 

Thinking on it, all I am coming up with is losing control and grabbing it, and in the process of trying to grab the gun, squeezing hard. 

 

Interesting that I just read an article on Cracked.com (of all places) on guns in movies and how about everything you see is wrong. They point out that in almost every movie, guns get dropped and go off shooting people all over the place. They use Jamie Lee Curtis MAC as an example, the gun is tied to a rope, the gun drops and shoots down about 15 terrorists or something without even pulling the trigger. They then point out that grabbing a dropping gun is the stupidest thing you can do. Because of safety regulations from the GCA, including mandatory drop tests, your best bet if you drop your gun, or it flies out of your hand, is to let it hit the ground since it will probably not go off since they have to meet requirements and are tested for it.Grabbing a dropped gun isnt smart. I already knew that, if I drop one, its going to hit the ground rather than me sticking my finger on the trigger accidentally.  

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Interesting that I just read an article on Cracked.com (of all places) on guns in movies and how about everything you see is wrong. They point out that in almost every movie, guns get dropped and go off shooting people all over the place. They use Jamie Lee Curtis MAC as an example, the gun is tied to a rope, the gun drops and shoots down about 15 terrorists or something without even pulling the trigger. They then point out that grabbing a dropping gun is the stupidest thing you can do. Because of safety regulations from the GCA, including mandatory drop tests, your best bet if you drop your gun, or it flies out of your hand, is to let it hit the ground since it will probably not go off since they have to meet requirements and are tested for it.Grabbing a dropped gun isnt smart. I already knew that, if I drop one, its going to hit the ground rather than me sticking my finger on the trigger accidentally.  

Not to derail the topic, but on the show Scandal last week an experienced assassin referred to recoil as "push-back" which made me go, Huh??? The inexperienced character referred to it as recoil - which made me laugh. Hollywood is made up of a bunch of dolts, ad I am amazed that people actually form their opinions based of what these dolts say!

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I am trying to imagine this but I am not seeing it.  You are talking about enough recoil to rotate the gun 180 and then pull probably 5+ pounds of DA over an inch of springs and such.   Path of least resistance.... it should continue to rotate rather than suddenly move linearly.

 

Thinking on it, all I am coming up with is losing control and grabbing it, and in the process of trying to grab the gun, squeezing hard. 

 

If it was at an indoor range it's possible that as the gun rotated it could have hit the bench & since her finger ws still in the trigger guard, that could account for the second trigger pull. Strange things can happen & as you can see, one miscalculation or a careless move can be fatal.

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Not to derail the topic, but on the show Scandal last week an experienced assassin referred to recoil as "push-back" which made me go, Huh??? The inexperienced character referred to it as recoil - which made me laugh. Hollywood is made up of a bunch of dolts, ad I am amazed that people actually form their opinions based of what these dolts say!

 

+1. I saw an episode of CSI Miami a few weeks ago & they were testing different pistols at the range & concluded that the gun used in a certain crime was a Ruger SP101 revolver. Then the officer in the show made a comment that Rugers are "rare" pistols. Last time I checked I hear that Rugers are pretty common.

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Well the Sheriff did say the gun spun around. Here is one blogger (shooters) point of view on the subject, which I happen to agree with, and a video showing how it could happen. 

 

 

"A few years ago S&W investigated the phenomena. They discovered, as you have probably already guessed, that the double taps were the result of what was essentially bump firing. If the gun recoiled quick enough, while the shooter was still applying trigger pressure, the trigger would reset and then, when the trigger finger caught up with the trigger, another round would fire. S&W filmed this video to demonstrate that their revolvers were not faulty …"

 

http://bearingarms.com/negligent-suicide-with-a-500-smith-wesson-revolver/

 

.500 Mag double tap (Link) apparently it is "quite common"

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/09/13/500-sw-double-taps/

Edited by TankerHC
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Well the Sheriff did say the gun spun around. Here is one blogger (shooters) point of view on the subject, which I happen to agree with, and a video showing how it could happen.


"A few years ago S&W investigated the phenomena. They discovered, as you have probably already guessed, that the double taps were the result of what was essentially bump firing. If the gun recoiled quick enough, while the shooter was still applying trigger pressure, the trigger would reset and then, when the trigger finger caught up with the trigger, another round would fire. S&W filmed this video to demonstrate that their revolvers were not faulty …"

http://bearingarms.com/negligent-suicide-with-a-500-smith-wesson-revolver/

.500 Mag double tap (Link) apparently it is "quite common"

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/09/13/500-sw-double-taps/


Bingo. Like I said before, this was entirely foreseeable.

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Well the Sheriff did say the gun spun around. Here is one blogger (shooters) point of view on the subject, which I happen to agree with, and a video showing how it could happen. 

 

 

"A few years ago S&W investigated the phenomena. They discovered, as you have probably already guessed, that the double taps were the result of what was essentially bump firing. If the gun recoiled quick enough, while the shooter was still applying trigger pressure, the trigger would reset and then, when the trigger finger caught up with the trigger, another round would fire. S&W filmed this video to demonstrate that their revolvers were not faulty …"

 

http://bearingarms.com/negligent-suicide-with-a-500-smith-wesson-revolver/

 

.500 Mag double tap (Link) apparently it is "quite common"

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/09/13/500-sw-double-taps/

The thing about that is it happens so quick, (in those videos, anyways), that the gun is pointed up when the second round goes off. It is not aimed at the head.

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[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFAApRUH094[/media]

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I am sorry for her. I bet the guy with her wanted to get a good laugh, but after this accident, he found out it isn't funny. So sad!

Also, I have shot that gun and that Texas women is a better man then me. Edited by joe45

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This sort of thing pisses me off. This was an entirely avoidable tragedy if not for some idiot who thought it would be funny to hand an inexperienced shooter the biggest damn gun he could without even thinking "hey, let's be on the safe side and load just one round in the thing in case she loses control of it." Youtube is full of videos where the person being filmed managed to avoid this poor woman's fate by nothing more than sheer luck. The person who put that gun in her hands should be charged with negligent homicide as this outcome was entirely foreseeable. 

So if you let someone shoot one of your guns and they accidentally kill themselves, then we can expect that you will immediately call the police and turn yourself in for negligent homicide.  Yeah, m'kay....
 

 

New shooter = 1 round with instruction

Relatively new shooter with big gun = 1 round with warning on recoil

Experienced shooter with a new big gun = "Have you ever shot one of these? It recoils like a mf'r."

 

I always ALWAYS explain to new shooters what is going to take place. They never get more than one round until they are comfortable, Ill usually load 3 or 4 mags with one round and in revolvers one round, at first. I dont like even joking around with a gun on the range. As far as I am concerned, live fire on a range is serious business, no room for playing around, but have fun, too easy to get killed. 

Where does the story say she was a "new shooter" or that there is any indication she'd never shot that particular gun before?  Perhaps she's shot with them in the past and there was no reason to expect that to happen.  Perhaps she was a very experienced shooter and was simply the victim of a freak accident that could never happen again.

Or... I have a better thought...

Perhaps this story makes no sense and there is no logical way that a gun can miraculously spin around in your hands to the point that a double action revolver will fire a second time simply from the force of the first discharge.  Perhaps it was a suicide or a homicide being written up as an accident.  Yeah, that makes more sense.  

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4OE78spknk#t=12

 

Here's an example of a .500 magnum shooting twice, so I'm sure it can happen. This girl got lucky if you ask me.

I'd venture to say everyone around was lucky there were only two rounds on that gun. If there were more, I could very easily see the muzzle continuing to rotate backwards as the remaining rounds were inadvertently fired, possible striking someone. 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4OE78spknk#t=12

 

Here's an example of a .500 magnum shooting twice, so I'm sure it can happen. This girl got lucky if you ask me.

OK, now after watching that, and assuming that is exactly the same thing that happened in the OP's story, then it would seem that the fault lies with Smith & Wesson for producing a firearm with a trigger that is so light that the the force of the recoil can cause the shooter's grip to fire a second shot.  Or is this the case of some idiot doing one of those fancy hair trigger jobs?

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So if you let someone shoot one of your guns and they accidentally kill themselves, then we can expect that you will immediately call the police and turn yourself in for negligent homicide. Yeah, m'kay....


Where does the story say she was a "new shooter" or that there is any indication she'd never shot that particular gun before? Perhaps she's shot with them in the past and there was no reason to expect that to happen. Perhaps she was a very experienced shooter and was simply the victim of a freak accident that could never happen again.

Or... I have a better thought...

Perhaps this story makes no sense and there is no logical way that a gun can miraculously spin around in your hands to the point that a double action revolver will fire a second time simply from the force of the first discharge. Perhaps it was a suicide or a homicide being written up as an accident. Yeah, that makes more sense.

I don't put guns in the hands of the unprepared for kicks. When I put one of my guns in someone's hands I take all possible safety measures to ensure that everyone goes home without any extra holes.
There are plenty of videos all over YouTube of men and women who were unprepared to handle that gun experiencing double taps. Some of them firing quite close to the head. This woman happened to be unfortunate enough to have it turn just *that* much too much. The person who put that gun in her hands should have been aware of a known issue with that gun and is morally, if not legally responsible for an avoidable and foreseeable outcome.


~rant
Like I said in my initial post, this kind of thing pisses me off. If you* are the kind of person who puts a firearm in the hands of the unprepared because you think it is funny, you're an asshole. Not only are you an asshole but you are a danger to anyone around you when you are in possession of a firearm. /rant

* You is used in the generic sense, not specifically directed at anyone on particular. Edited by Chucktshoes

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