T.B.I. conditional proceed help

[Tnscooter63]

Over the holidays I tried to order a lower from online and when I went to pick it up I was denied. I filed the appeal and 15 days later I get a letter from tbi saying they didn't get the info needed and gave me a "conditional proceed". The place holding the lower says they wont release it to me till I get it sorted out. I have bought 4 firearms thru them and a dozen in the past 5 or 6 years total with never a problem, I have my hcp and had a friend on the force check it which came back all good. I tried calling tbi and the lady was nice but she told me to do a background check myself which wouldn't tell me what their problem was. I explained to her my background and she thought it might should have been overturned and said it still maybe after the holidays. Does anyone know of something I can do to find out what is messing up the BG? I haven't been arrested in over 20 years and before that it was never any domestic or felony's. I would rather see if there is anything I can do before hiring an attorney but I am at a dead end as of now. Thanks in advance.

[Oh Shoot]

Well, you weren't denied, but FFL can either sell it to you or not, their choice, on a conditional proceed:

 

Here's procedure on your end from TBI to find out what's up:

 

http://www.tbi.tn.gov/firearm_check/firearm_docs/FFL_20Guidelines_pdf.pdf

 

See page 14, "Instructions for completing the APPEAL OF DENIAL form"

 

(cut and paste from it doesn't format worth a crap)

 

- OS

[Tnscooter63]

Thanks OS it looks like this weekend was 30 days since denied. I will check with my ffl Monday and file a nics appeal next week. What a pain.

[eRay]

As Oh Shoots says, it is up to your FFL whether he transfers it or not. The background check people try to discourage the FFL from transferring the gun by advising that if it is later denied, then ATF will have to retrieve the gun from the buyer. When I had an FFL, I always went ahead with the transfer and ATF never had to retrieve a gun from any of them. Most of the time, I never heard anything back from TICS after getting a Conditional Proceed.

[JohnC]

I don't know why the TBI is doing crap like that, but the LGS told me there are quite a few folks that get denied and basically 99% of them get overturned. :shrug:

 

If this crap continues, I think folks ought to start complaining to who ever is in control of it and see if they can get it fixed so these idiot bureaucrats can't deny a gun purchase unless it is legitimately deniable via a felony, domestic violence, or some identification problem. :up:

[Tnscooter63]

As Oh Shoots says, it is up to your FFL whether he transfers it or not. The background check people try to discourage the FFL from transferring the gun by advising that if it is later denied, then ATF will have to retrieve the gun from the buyer. When I had an FFL, I always went ahead with the transfer and ATF never had to retrieve a gun from any of them. Most of the time, I never heard anything back from TICS after getting a Conditional Proceed.

I wish you was still an ffl. I thought about trying to find someone else but figured they might think I was trying to get around something. I have been thinking of selling it or having them sell it for me. The place of the transfer told me there was no one that would do the transfer because they were liable, I told him that was BS but oh well. I cant believe after the extensive BG I went thru to be a bail bondsman in Shelby county a few years back that something is all of a sudden popping up.

[jtmaze]

I wish you was still an ffl. I thought about trying to find someone else but figured they might think I was trying to get around something. I have been thinking of selling it or having them sell it for me. The place of the transfer told me there was no one that would do the transfer because they were liable, I told him that was BS but oh well. I cant believe after the extensive BG I went thru to be a bail bondsman in Shelby county a few years back that something is all of a sudden popping up.

I would definately find a different FFL to do transfers for me.

[bersaguy]

If you don't dot every ( i ) and cross every ( t ) they will find a reason to deny it.  I have heard a few guys complaining about similar issues recently.

[eRay]

I wouldn't think that they would be liable as long as they sold it legally. At any rate, I carried a million dollar liability policy through the NRA Business Alliance just in case something like this came up. I would think about all gun dealers carry insurance nowdays.

 

I would not say 99 percent of denials are overturned, but out of about 20 I had denied probably 15 were later approved. I think this shows that they are causing extra problems for a lot of innocent people. I also bet that all 20 were counted in the statistics showing how many criminals are prevented from buying guns each year by instant check.

[DaveTN]

That can happen if you have an arrest that doesn’t show a disposition. Doesn’t matter if its 20 years old, doesn’t matter if it for something that would not disqualify you anyway, and it doesn’t matter if you know it was dismissed or what the disposition was.

[tnhawk]

I had a denial from a TBI check about 10 years ago.  I called them and it was cleared up within a few days.  After many purchases since then, it's never happened again.

[JayC]

TICS has a much higher rate of false positives than NICS...  and TDOS is mis-interpreting state law to deny firearm checks and permit applications...  

 

I know I sound like a broken record, but TICS not only violates the state constitution and taxes a protected right...  but it's a poorly run make work program that needs to be shutdown.

 

If the federal government wants to perform background checks, 'let them', but the state of TN has no busy wasting tax dollars on TICS.

 

That can happen if you have an arrest that doesn’t show a disposition. Doesn’t matter if its 20 years old, doesn’t matter if it for something that would not disqualify you anyway, and it doesn’t matter if you know it was dismissed or what the disposition was.

 

[Tnscooter63]

It wouldn't be so bad if I knew what was holding me up, TBI wouldn't tell me anything on the phone or in the letter. From what I understand of the link that OS put up is my only option is to appeal the nics. I am really not looking forward to dealing with the FBI. I tthink my tin foil hat is getting to tight because I have had some weird thoughts lately.

[Oh Shoot]

It wouldn't be so bad if I knew what was holding me up, TBI wouldn't tell me anything on the phone or in the letter. From what I understand of the link that OS put up is my only option is to appeal the nics. I am really not looking forward to dealing with the FBI. I tthink my tin foil hat is getting to tight because I have had some weird thoughts lately.

 

Far as I understand it, the appeal is the only way to get them to tell you what the problem is. You know, because they're here to help you and all.

 

- OS

[Tnscooter63]

http://www.tbi.tn.gov/firearm_check/firearm_docs/FFL_20Guidelines_pdf.pdf

 

4. If your dealer refuses to transfer a firearm to you based on a “CONDITIONAL PROCEED” status
received from TICS, you were not denied by TICS and have no avenue of appeal to TICS.
However, TICS will assist you further by providing you with a form letter to appeal the FFL’s
denial by seeking assistance of the FBI NICS Appeals Services Unit in correcting your criminal
history record. Do NOT return such a letter to TICS – it is to be sent to the FBI NICS. Criminal
history records maintained by other states or by the FBI cannot be corrected or modified by TICS.
That is the responsibility of each individual state and of the original arresting agency. It is your
responsibility to see that TICS is notified by any out-of-state or federal agency upon
correction/modification of your criminal history record that would effect the original denial
decision made by TICS.

 

Looks like they are done helping me other than this form. I will ask for it tomorrow and see if it has anything helpful.

[DaveTN]

It wouldn't be so bad if I knew what was holding me up, TBI wouldn't tell me anything on the phone or in the letter. From what I understand of the link that OS put up is my only option is to appeal the nics. I am really not looking forward to dealing with the FBI. I tthink my tin foil hat is getting to tight because I have had some weird thoughts lately.

Instead of paying for an FBI background check I spent $30 for a C&R license. Unlike the TBI; the BATF told me exactly what was showing up (Actually what wasn’t showing up; a disposition) and how to fix it. I followed their instructions and have never had a problem again, plus I got a C&R FFL.

Prior to that I had it happen twice after coming to TN. Both times I appealed at the time I was turned down and the denials were revered within four days. After the BATF explained to me what was happening and how to fix it I haven’t had a problem. TBI should have explained it to me; but they were clueless. Edited January 13, 2014 by DaveTN

[Guest drifter]

That can happen if you have an arrest that doesn’t show a disposition. Doesn’t matter if its 20 years old, doesn’t matter if it for something that would not disqualify you anyway, and it doesn’t matter if you know it was dismissed or what the disposition was.

 

This happened to me, I got arrested for driving on a suspended. My license was valid, it was a paperwork mistake by the TN dept of safety, charges were dismissed in court.  Got a conditional proceed like 4 years later when I tried to buy a gun and the shop wouldn't sell it to me.  Filed the appeal and found out that the arrest was screwing up my record.  I had to contact the county I was arrested in because apparently they never filed the appropriate paperwork.

 

Definite possibility that an arrest from 20 years ago is screwing up your purchase.

[Dustbuster]

All good ideas you can also spend 29 bucks w TBI for a state check or mail a form to FBI on west va to see what they have on file. Case disposition is a huge problem as only what u been charged w shows,not the dismissal or verdict.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 of course it ate my spelling.

[JohnC]

Far as I understand it, the appeal is the only way to get them to tell you what the problem is. You know, because they're here to help you and all.

 

- OS

 

You appeal and they tell why you were denied?

 

Never heard of that before. Everyone who's posted on forums about being denied all seem to say they won't tell you anything and will just overturn the denial (if they find you're clean).

Edited January 13, 2014 by JohnC

[Smith]

"Conditional Proceed" usually happen when TICS shows a denial qualifier that doesn't have a clear resolution or disposition. Since by law they have to give a response within 15 days they will give the "Conditional proceed" to meet the requirements of the law while covering their legal butts.  

 

The FFL can transfer on a "conditional", but assumes all legal liability in the transfer. I don't know of any brick and mortar or reputable dealers that will assume full legal liability for someone they don't know really, really, really well. Personal, I can't blame them. Risking their FFL and a possible sting in the federal pen on a felony isn't worth the risk.

 

If it has been longer than 30 days, you will have to do another TICS check to appeal. Essentially start the whole process over. After 30 days the initial transaction is legally dead.

 

The only way I know someone has gotten any information about their denial is to go to the TBI in person and supply all supporting identity information they request. They will not tell the FFL, customer, or anyone else anything over the phone or electronically due to privacy laws.

[Guest TheButterSponge]

I have had two separate experiences with the Nashville DHS Handgun Division. Smith is feeding you the good info.

 

"Conditional Proceed" usually happen when TICS shows a denial qualifier that doesn't have a clear resolution or disposition. Since by law they have to give a response within 15 days they will give the "Conditional proceed" to meet the requirements of the law while covering their legal butts.  

 

The FFL can transfer on a "conditional", but assumes all legal liability in the transfer. I don't know of any brick and mortar or reputable dealers that will assume full legal liability for someone they don't know really, really, really well. Personal, I can't blame them. Risking their FFL and a possible sting in the federal pen on a felony isn't worth the risk.

 

If it has been longer than 30 days, you will have to do another TICS check to appeal. Essentially start the whole process over. After 30 days the initial transaction is legally dead.

 

The only way I know someone has gotten any information about their denial is to go to the TBI in person and supply all supporting identity information they request. They will not tell the FFL, customer, or anyone else anything over the phone or electronically due to privacy laws.

 

[Cj23]

On Saturday, January 11, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Tnscooter63 said:

Over the holidays I tried to order a lower from online and when I went to pick it up I was denied. I filed the appeal and 15 days later I get a letter from tbi saying they didn't get the info needed and gave me a "conditional proceed". The place holding the lower says they wont release it to me till I get it sorted out. I have bought 4 firearms thru them and a dozen in the past 5 or 6 years total with never a problem, I have my hcp and had a friend on the force check it which came back all good. I tried calling tbi and the lady was nice but she told me to do a background check myself which wouldn't tell me what their problem was. I explained to her my background and she thought it might should have been overturned and said it still maybe after the holidays. Does anyone know of something I can do to find out what is messing up the BG? I haven't been arrested in over 20 years and before that it was never any domestic or felony's. I would rather see if there is anything I can do before hiring an attorney but I am at a dead end as of now. Thanks in advance.

Im literally going through the same exact think. I purchased a lower as well and sent to ffl and they denied me. Today is the 15th day and i have yet to recieve anything. Im furious about this. I was supposed to compete in a competition with a friend. I have never been financially stable enough until now to buy expensive guns and now that i can finally afford it this happens. I also have a friend who is an ffl. And he basically said the same as your friend. But i have found out that it is happening alot right now with all of the people who are getting taxes and things back and then going to purchase a firearm. I have one friend who litterally purchases a gun about every couple of months. He went last eeek to purchase a riffle for his daughter and was denied. He called tcic and they told him to file the appeal and it seemed to be flaged over a speeding ticket.  Come on really a speeding ticket. Lol. I have done tons of research and hopefully everything goes ok. I wish you luck.

[dralarms]

Holy thread resurrection, batman

[MemHeli]

On 1/12/2014 at 8:42 PM, Oh Shoot said:

You know, because they're here to help you and all.

 

- OS

my kind of humor!

[MichaelInSeymour]

On 1/12/2014 at 9:54 PM, Tnscooter63 said:

http://www.tbi.tn.gov/firearm_check/firearm_docs/FFL_20Guidelines_pdf.pdf

 

4. If your dealer refuses to transfer a firearm to you based on a “CONDITIONAL PROCEED†status
received from TICS, you were not denied by TICS and have no avenue of appeal to TICS.
However, TICS will assist you further by providing you with a form letter to appeal the FFL’s
denial by seeking assistance of the FBI NICS Appeals Services Unit in correcting your criminal
history record. Do NOT return such a letter to TICS – it is to be sent to the FBI NICS. Criminal
history records maintained by other states or by the FBI cannot be corrected or modified by TICS.
That is the responsibility of each individual state and of the original arresting agency. It is your
responsibility to see that TICS is notified by any out-of-state or federal agency upon
correction/modification of your criminal history record that would effect the original denial
decision made by TICS.

 

Looks like they are done helping me other than this form. I will ask for it tomorrow and see if it has anything helpful.

I am in the same boat. I had charges in SC over 13 yrs ago. I recently, 10/3/23, went down to my pardon hearing. I was approved almost immediately for all of my charges to  be pardoned.  I drove back to TN, with hopes and dreams this was the end and I could finally buy a firearm.  Boy was I wrong. Today makes day 23 with no news from TBI except after my 15 days were up, I did recieve my Conditional proceed paper.... I talked to TICS. almost daily and uo until yesterday, I kept being told, "their are still a few charges that haven't been updated yet in SC.