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This really breaks my heart.


mav

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Due to all the military adventurism over the last decade, I have become pretty much a noninterventionist over the last couple of years.  I have also become so distrusting of our government and disgusted with our media that I don't even watch tv/cable news anymore (haven't done so for over a year).  By doing so, I have become a little slow in picking up the lastest occurences happening around the world.  For example, I only read yesterday about the Yazidi people in Iraq being trapped on a mountaintop.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHQCPF9Bz44

 

This is heartbreaking.  While I loathe to get involved, if we don't do something, especially considering we pretty much broke/destabilized this country, we deserve whatever fate lies in our future.  I don't want to hear Obama this or Obama that.  Yes, he shares a lot of responsibility on this issue.  However, Congress can force him to take action and help these people.

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I see. So why can't they defend themselves? We simply cannot continue to be the world's policeman. We have to many of our own problems to address.

This is one thing Obama can blame on Dubya and would be 100% correct in doing so.  The US never had any business going into that country and this is the result.

by pulling everyone out before the job was done... because he said he would end the war, so by damned he ended the war without regard to the uncertainty that existed.   And now tens of thousands hav

I just saw a post on Drudge saying that we just now started bombing ISIS.  I don't know if that is really gonna do it, but it is something.

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I'm hoping Israel will solve this problem. They already know the USA is no longer behind them so why not take matters into their own hands?
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I read an article about who ISIS is and it referred them as being "well armed" mainly due to the Iraqi army dropping their (US) weapons and running. Sad thing is we get rid of these guys there will be another group to come in an keep going.
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One thing you can give the Muslim people...they are quite tenacious. Unless you blow them all to hell, the problem of violence in that region will never be solved. I often wonder how many people in other countries feel the same way about us...it is all a matter of perspective I guess...
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Not trying to sound insensitive, but why the hell can't the Iraqi people do something about it? I'm of the opinion that the Muslims that don't actively take part in terrorism still support either directly or indirectly. I've heard very few ever speak out against it.

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[quote name="gregintenn" post="1177261" timestamp="1407542810"]Not trying to sound insensitive, but why the hell can't the Iraqi people do something about it? I'm of the opinion that the Muslims that don't actively take part in terrorism still support either directly or indirectly. I've heard very few ever speak out against it.[/quote] Its the christins and other religuous minorities being murdered. The muzzies agree 100% on the infidels.
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Its the christins and other religuous minorities being murdered. The muzzies agree 100% on the infidels.

I see. So why can't they defend themselves? We simply cannot continue to be the world's policeman. We have to many of our own problems to address.

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I see. So why can't they defend themselves? We simply cannot continue to be the world's policeman. We have to many of our own problems to address.

I don't disagree, but I also have issue with standing by and watching genocide. They're unable to defend themselves against the might of ISIS. It's what we do, we fight for those who can't fight for themselves.

ISIS appears to use the age old method, "join us or die." Edited by peejman
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I don't disagree, but I also have issue with standing by and watching genocide. They're unable to defend themselves against the might of ISIS. It's what we do, we fight for those who can't fight for themselves.

ISIS appears to use the age old method, "join us or die."

I believe that is taken pretty much straight form the Koran. Why doesn't someone besides the U.S. pitch in a helping hand for a change?

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They did some major air drops of food and water and other supplies to all those people trapped on top of that mountain and are planning more. They sent in F-18's first to blow up a bunch if ISIS and clear a path for the C130s to drop the cargo on chutes. Then the F-18's hung around until they could get some drones in the area to protect the people while they retrieved the food and water. The drones are fully armed and will be there to protect the people indefinitely up on the mountain until someone with a brain cell working in DC can figure out a solution to this fine mess our Commander-n-Chief got us into by thinking ISIS was a Harmless bunch of thugs. Maybe someone in Washington DC will get a  brain cell out of neutral or coast mode and figure out a solution. I think someone made a similar conclusion about Al Quada also, Just a  bunch of harmless thugs!!!!!!!!!

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About the only native force in that area that isn't hardcore radical islamic extreamists is the Kurds, start arming the Kurds with some decent weaponery.

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bersaguy how did Obama get us into this situation?

 

by pulling everyone out before the job was done... because he said he would end the war, so by damned he ended the war without regard to the uncertainty that existed.

 

And now tens of thousands have been massacred with tens of thousands more in the process or about to be.

 

Isis is not that big of a group, we could go in there and turn everyone of their hideouts into a glass factory with minimal effort but that will never happen because of the perception of "going back to war".

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Sam1 the only way that this does not happen is if we had never left. Everyone has known for years that this kind of thing would happen as soon as our troops left. It was only a matter of which group it would be committing the violence. This is what happens when you give a deadline to end an occupation. The bad guys mass their troops and weapons and wait.
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This is one thing Obama can blame on Dubya and would be 100% correct in doing so.  The US never had any business going into that country and this is the result.

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Sam1 the only way that this does not happen is if we had never left. Everyone has known for years that this kind of thing would happen as soon as our troops left. It was only a matter of which group it would be committing the violence. This is what happens when you give a deadline to end an occupation. The bad guys mass their troops and weapons and wait.

 

I agree with you in part; if we stopped pussyfooting around during wars and worried about erasing the bad guys instead of hurting their feelings or infringing on their rights, we could have put a much bigger dent in their ambitions.  There is no way that we could've ever wiped them off the face of the earth, but we sure as hell could've put the fear of God back in them so fast they would start second guessing attacking in the future.

 

Same reason children are disciplined; their parents aren't going to be by their side 24/7 their entire life.

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The only places we are ever justified in going into in the past were places that were responsible or had persons responsible living in their territories for killing americans. Not just one or two Americans but a lot of them.

 

It was found out after the second desert storm ( recent Iraq war) that Iraq had no WMD's. And if they had them at one time, they were either destroyed or had been looted to another country.

 

I'm all for prevention of genocide, but we have to stop the continuous cycle of hate toward America. Damned if we do Damned if we don't.   Sending weapons to our allies in Kurdistan or working with former enemies to prevent a greater threat does not appeal to most.

 

Remember: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Iran, Quatar, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc... need to step up to the plate and help. If they don't, the next battlefield may be in their own backyards.

 

Not all Muslims are Terrorists. Believe it or not, there are christian terrorists just like any other religion out there has the potiental for hate.

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The only places we are ever justified in going into in the past were places that were responsible or had persons responsible living in their territories for killing americans. Not just one or two Americans but a lot of them.
 
It was found out after the second desert storm ( recent Iraq war) that Iraq had no WMD's. And if they had them at one time, they were either destroyed or had been looted to another country.
 
I'm all for prevention of genocide, but we have to stop the continuous cycle of hate toward America. Damned if we do Damned if we don't.   Sending weapons to our allies in Kurdistan or working with former enemies to prevent a greater threat does not appeal to most.
 
Remember: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Iran, Quatar, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc... need to step up to the plate and help. If they don't, the next battlefield may be in their own backyards.
 
Not all Muslims are Terrorists. Believe it or not, there are christian terrorists just like any other religion out there has the potiental for hate.



Agreed there are fringe groups in a lot of religions.... But any group that calls for the death of all that do not recognize Alah is a terrorist in my book. If you doubt me read the Koran.
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You do realize both the Bible and the Koran were written by men. And a lot of times they did not have paper or parchment to write on. So It was handed down by word of mouth. So in time, things get changed around a bit.

 

A long time ago if you didn't practice christianity( catholism in general) you were viewed as a Heretic and shunned or killed. By order of the king which was directly under the pope. There are different versions of these bibles and korans. True followers of their faith do not believe in violence toward anyone. But the media has corrupted us all into thinking all muslims are evil.

 

I know a muslim and he lives in my neighborhood. Actually ran for county commissoner. I had my CPA ( Citizen Police Academy) class with him for 10 weeks this year. Good guy, very knowledgable and he holds a top secret clearance at AEDC. So not all are bad.

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I posted this on another forum...it applies to this discussion so I'll just pop it here as well.

 

We should cut our losses on whatever the hell it was- if anybody had a real idea to begin with- on what we hoped to get out of Iraq. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's time for a new country called Kurdistan.

Turkey may be more receptive to an independent Kurdistan now than ever before. As long as it doesn't involve a shift in their borders, I'd imagine they would want a Kurdish state on their border rather than one controlled by ISIL which is what will happen if the Kurds are overrun. Syria is in no position to stop one forming next to or as a part of their territory and Iran I could care less about (though we will have to care what they may do about in response).

We would have to help the Kurds stand up, and I think we could do it at a reasonable return on cost if it actually gets us a long term base in the area for future ops and another cooperative nation. Off the top of my head, these are the big steps...

  • The consulate in Erbil becomes an embassy and we formally recognize an independent Kurdistan
  • Send 2-3 BCT's,1 Combat Aviation BDE and a Sustainment BDE under a Div HQ to help them set up security, round the rough edges off the Peshmerga and let people know we mean business; it will also help Turkey go along if we promise to help patrol their border with the new Kurdish state
  • Establish a Victory Base/Bagram size SuperFOB with a C-5 capable runway to flow supplies and a half dozen or so smaller FOB's for our forces
  • State Dept. leads the effort to help prop up a Kurdish government; pushes other nations and the UN to recognize the new Kurdish state and establish diplomatic relations and get Kurdistan admitted into OPEC so their oil can help stabilize the market while the rest of Iraq burns
  • Work out a pipeline deal to get Kurdish oil into the market via a pipeline that runs through Turkey; this might be the basis for long term cooperation between Kurdistan and Turkey- financial benefit for both countries
  • Other US Agencies help prop up the new Kurdish state by focus area (Agriculture, Justice, ect..)
  • Run ISR out of that base as we see fit to keep tabs on whatever is happening in what used to be the rest of Iraq and Syria; use kinetic strikes when a target too good to pass up presents itself

If this sounds a lot like what we tried to do in Iraq and Afghan, it is. But in Kurdistan, I think it actually has a chance to work since there wouldn't be an internal conflict and a population capable of running what we help transition them to.

 

 

Also, as bad as ISIS/ISIL is, I'm not opposed to having them around to keep Iran occupied.  The biggest strategic effect of us invading and overthrowing Saddam in '03 was that Iran no longer had a major nation on their border they had to account for in decisions.  Israel is too far away and only effective in their own backyard to be any legit counterbalance to Iran and the other Arab states don't practice any type of direct confrontation -a side effect of us doing the heavy lifting on their behalf for too long.  It's time we let them have a problem to deal with again.

 

I remember hearing about the Yezidi on top of Sinjar mountain from a friend who interacted with them in '03 on missions.  He likened them to the Amish, just wanting to be left alone to run their own lives and not bother anybody else.  What they have and will go through sucks, but life is often cruel in that part of the world. I would support most humanitarian efforts, but would need to look at the whole picture to see what we could or should do for them militarily.  Their location in Iraq leaves them at the mercy of whoever is in control of it since they don't have anywhere near the numbers or resources to defend any territory like the Kurds do.

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[quote name="K191145" post="1177297" timestamp="1407546348"]About the only native force in that area that isn't hardcore radical islamic extreamists is the Kurds, start arming the Kurds with some decent weaponery.[/quote] Trust me, the Kurds are well armed. They've been the only force that has held back ISIS and mounted successful offensives. They're trying to hold what they got though. I don't see them sticking their neck out for the Yazidis.
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