[Buying a used car out of state???]

I bought a jeep in NC, from a dealer, on eBay. Payed no tax in NC, paid TN tax when I registered it in TN.

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[Help me choose an heirloom gun.]

As some of you know my dad recently passed away and I am looking to get something that will not only honor his memory but be passed down from generation to generation. I am currently thinking of something along the lines of a 1911 but am also considering a lever gun or nice bolt action. I am not terribly familiar with the 1911 platform but do plan to go put my hands on some soon. Any recommendations or suggestions on what to look for or not look for would be helpful. I do plan to shoot whatever I get and am thinking of shooting the 1911 in CDP.

Henry Rifles will make you a custom Henry with his name as the sreial number for a very affordable price. I did this recently with my father in law for his 6 grandsons (my son included) and they were UNBELIEVABLY nice about it. They threw in custom covers for the rifle recievers AND regular ones for when they want to shoot them. If you go that route, I doubt you will regret it. If you are talking handgus--hard to beat a Colt. No man has ever said the phrase, "Oh, man. I wish I had not bought the Colt"

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

Attorney General opinions are NOT law, they are opinions, but can be the basis for denials. A challenge to this law, I was advised, could take MORE than 3 years. Would probably be easier to get the law changed--which is exactly what happemed last year when it went from 10 to 3.

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

Hey--it worked!

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

I was told it is (by far) the single biggest reason for denial on renewal, and that many HAD appealed (thereby challenged it) and that no one had ever won on appeal. There is an attorney general opinion on the and/or issue (issued back when it was 10 years) that clearly states it is OR, not "and". I have a copy of it but I cant post a PDF. Maybe I can take a screenshot?

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

As I said, I don't know what TNDOS has "decided" is proper enforcement of the statute -- only that it is worded exactly the same as the DUI one as to the "and" condition, and for sure both the DUI conditions must be met, neither one alone is prohibitive, that has been proven any number of times right here on TGO.

So if they are treating it the way you say, seems to me it's ripe for a suit to anyone denied unless they also say they are currently an illegal user or addict, since otherwise it does not seem to be in accordance with the actual law (which I quoted above). That's all I'm really contending.

- OS

I was told it is (by far) the single biggest reason for denial on renewal, and that many HAD appealed (thereby challenged it) and that no one had ever won on appeal. There is an attorney general opinion on the and/or issue (issued back when it was 10 years) that clearly states it is OR, not "and". I have a copy of it but I cant post a PDF. Maybe I can take a screenshot?

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

Down, tiger. He made the pics, it's not found "online" as you claimed.

And thanks a bunch, CZ!

Okay, here's the pertinent part, and why I wanted to see exactly how that section was worded:



According to 39-17-1351, it takes a combination of factors to be denied for the rehab part.

(A) would deny you period (refers to federal law) but takes (A) plus ( B ) or ( C ) to deny. (You could even make the argument that A alone is not a disqualification, as that simply forbids you from possessing firearms under federal law, which is actually a different matter than having a permit to do so, but whatever).

Similarly, as is well documented, neither (D) or (E) alone disqualifies you, it takes both (D) and (E) to do it.

Now, I can't say whether TNDOS is following the statute as written in regard to the rehab part, but we know they do as for the DUI part, so seems they should, as the sections are written exactly alike, with an "and" as part of the condition, not "or".

----------

reference from the statute:

(10) That the applicant is not an unlawful user of or addicted to alcohol, any controlled substance or controlled substance analogue, AND the applicant has not been either:
(A) A patient in a rehabilitation program pursuant to a court order or hospitalized for alcohol, controlled substance or controlled substance analogue abuse or addiction pursuant to a court order within ten (10) years from the date of application; or
( B ) A voluntary patient in a rehabilitation program or voluntarily hospitalized for alcohol, controlled substance or controlled substance analogue abuse or addiction within three (3) years from the date of application;


(11) That the applicant has not been convicted of the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant in this or any other state two (2) or more times within ten (10) years from the date of the application AND that none of the convictions has occurred within five (5) years from the date of application or renewal;



- OS

Dude--I am NOT trying to argue with you. You posted some slightly incorrect information about a subject, that for very personal reasons I happen to know A LOT about. This law was changed last year. I ASSURE you that ifvyou check the "yes" box next to the "3 year" rehab question, you WILL be denied. I have consulted with 3 seperate firearms attorneys, and several officials (all very PRO gun). No onethat I have spoken with AGREES with the law, but all feel 3 is better than 10. If an individual can (with luck) have their permit renewal fall such that they can claim they have NOT been an inpatient within 3 years, then they are under no legal obligation to report their inpatient status to the government and no one will EVER know. If the applicant lies on the renewal form, that is a felony. The best course of action (in my opinion) if one has been to rehab, is to wait out the 3 year window and reapply. I have it from VERY good sources that checking the "yes" box WILL result in an instant denial and appeals have (so far) not been successful. It HAS been tried.

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

Yes. ^^ there it is!

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

Again, I'd like to see exactly how the question is posed on the HCP app.

- OS

It is online. You can read it. It is worded exactly like you posted above, only 3 years and not 10 years.

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

Ya know what? You're right and I'm wrong. Happens every decade or so. :) I was wrongly conflating commitment for mental disorder and commitment for alcohol/drugs. There are indeed separate conditions involved so again, mea culpa.

But here's the deal as I understand the drug/alcohol part -- you have to be both:

"an unlawful user of or addicted to alcohol, any controlled substance or controlled substance analogue
AND either
- A patient in a rehabilitation program pursuant to a court order or hospitalized for alcohol, controlled substance or controlled substance analogue abuse or addiction pursuant to a court order within ten (10) years from the date of application; or
- A voluntary patient in a rehabilitation program or voluntarily hospitalized for alcohol, controlled substance or controlled substance analogue abuse or addiction within three (3) years from the date of application"

The "and" is the same importance as the "and" in the DUI condition as I understand it. So is the question still worded that way on the form? Meaning you have to admit to being currently an unlawful user or addict to be disqualified?

And indeed, TNDOS blanket statement on site is wrong by being incomplete, as it only mentions the 10 year period. If that law just changed last year, it slipped by everyone here, which is unusual, but guess it happened.

And as a side issue, how would TNDOS "find out" if you had entered voluntary rehab in the first place if you didn't admit it?

- OS

According to my research, they find out on only on renewal. Further research (involving lawyers) reveals no provision REQUIRING one to notify the state of one has been in rehab. I have been advising people in this situation to let their permit lapse and re-apply when the 3 year period is over--rather than get denied. The only other option is to LIE--which is a very bad idea (and a felony). I would not want to have a denial on my history.

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

Where'd you get that?

There is no such provision for suspension of a permit due to voluntary commitment in 39-17-1352, and voluntary commitment is not a disqualifying event for getting a permit in the first place, as per 39-17-1351 and as explained in FAQ on TNDOS handgun site also.

- OS

It was on my last renewal. It used to say--"has not been a patient..hospitalized for alcohol or substance abuse..for 10 years." On my latest renewal it said 3 years. I was curios so I called the number on the website. It does not say the word "voluntary"--but there is ANOTHER provision for involuntary (officially it says "adjucated") that calls for 7 years. I agree it is BS. Someone is trying to do the right thing and is smacked for it. They told me they usually only find out about voluntary treatment when it becomes time for renewals, and that it is by far the #1 reason for people to be denied on renewal.

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

They changed that "rehab" provision to 3 years. Last year I think.

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If you VOLUNTARILY go to inpatient rehab, you lose your permit for 3 years in TN. Prior to last year it WAS 10 years.

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[Carry Permit while on Probation]

List of Scenarios which render a person INELIGIBLE to obtaina carry permit

• Any felony conviction; (permanent bar to possession of firearms per Tennessee and Federal law)
• A conviction for a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence; (permanent bar to possession of firearms per Tennessee and Federal law)
• A conviction for misdemeanor stalking;
• Any open or pending felony case (until resolved);
• Subject to any Order of Protection (Civil / Pseudo-Criminal) (typically ineligible to possess firearms)
• A fugitive from justice (Active Criminal Warrants in Another State);
• Being a patient in a rehabilitation center in the past 10 years;
• Two or more DUI convictions in Tennessee, or any other state AND if an applicant has two or more DUI convictions, those convictions are within 5 years from the date of application;

List of Scenarios which will result in a Suspension or Revocation of a Carry Permit

• Being charged with any felony offense will result in a suspension, pending the disposition.
• If the permit holder is placed on pre-trial or judicial diversion (Suspended for a period of time equal to the diversionary period)
• A conviction for any Class A Misdemeanor will result in the suspension of a person’s carry permit while the persons’ sentence or probation is in effect. (T.C.A. 39-17-1352 (f)(1))

http://nashvilleattorneynow.com/criminal-defense/tn-criminal-lawyers-carry-permit/

They changed that "rehab" provision to 3 years. Last year I think.

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[Which is the stronger and more durable pistol ?]

I like the Ruger to give your son. I am not a 1911 guy. (I have a few) My wife carries a revolver, but if she had to fire MY gun for some reason, I think it would be easier for her to fire DA/SA with the Ruger vs the 1911. For that reason, I carry the Ruger with me on trips, etc. If her gun goes down, and I am unable to fire, she can easily fire mine.

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