beebee233
-
Posts
178 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1 -
Feedback
0%
Content Type
Forums
Events
Store
Articles
Posts posted by beebee233
-
-
3 hours ago, DaveTN said:
But they are enforced. If you make a threat in Tennessee the cops can come and seize your guns. Is that not true?
What I don’t see is a clearly defined set of rules or “Due Process”. It appears to me they do whatever they want or whatever they can get away with. Lacking specific instructions; that's all they can do.
Everyone that is a gun owner needs to know what is going to happen if they make violent threats and the cops get called, or if they threaten suicide and the cops get called. If family members and friends can’t handle the situation and call for law enforcement; guns are going to get seized if there is probable cause to do so. Anything less and the liability is simply too high, and the danger to innocent people too great.
They are enforced when they want to be enforced.
-
13 minutes ago, DaveTN said:
Red flag laws are a part of this. Yet you see the hard line 2nd amendment folks that seem to see having their guns taken away for violent threats a violation of their 2nd amendment rights. Some are the same folks that want to blame the cops because they didn’t take someone’s guns. I believe we will see Red Flag laws passed that have clearly defined due process.
The problem with such legislation, as in ALL legislation, is that it will inevitably have differing interpretations and unintended consequences.
Additionally, as you have stated, we already have laws on the books that address these situations. They are just not enforced. Probably due to having different interpretations and unintended consequences.
Reminds me of a movie about a WWII B-25 bombardier.
-
10 hours ago, Wingshooter said:
Hmm... I thought it a bit odd today when the mayor (I think?) said several times that antifa wasn’t welcome there for their planned upcoming rally. I wonder if there is some connection that they know of.
Here's what I think is odd. He just killed 20 people, wounded 26 more and only ONE cop escorting this guy????????
Casually walking down the street?????
Really?????
C'mon....
-
On 7/18/2019 at 10:57 AM, MacGyver said:
Okay, I’ve gotten some time to come up for air. I’ve reread everything here and will offer a few thoughts.
Upfront, there will certainly be folks who disagree with me. Take these thoughts for what they are, and maybe use them to process your own church’s response. It sounds like you’ve got a good engaged leadership.
First, this is absolutely Kingdom work.
Scripture is concerned with three types of people over and over again - the sojourner, the widow, and the orphan. You might argue that a young drug addict doesn’t fall into any of these categories. But, he’s clearly an “other” who society has little use for.
Jesus would see this young man and engage with him. This young man is Jesus’s kind of person.
Second, working with folks like this is a long effort. It’s dirty. It’s personal. It can be life changing - for the people doing the work as well as the person being helped. When you decide to help - it will change the way that you see things.
Things are rarely as simple as we like to try to see them. And working with folks with needs like these will change the way you see things. We’re a small church (150 on a good Sunday) and have worked regularly with 3 or 4 folks who’ve struggled with addiction and homelessness for years now - literally 8 years in a couple of the cases. There are rarely any clean breaks. We work towards that - but there are definitely systemic issues that make it tough. Be prepared for the long haul.
Third, there are going to be some people who will be quite vocal in opposing working with this young man. The way I think about this is sort of like this - if this is Kingdom work - it’s very much at the border of the Kingdom. We’ve built our comfortable suburban churches to be at what we see as the center of the Kingdom. So, we rarely have to get our hands dirty if we don’t want to - and a lot of us don’t want to - so we’re really uncomfortable with it when we experience it. Think of a person who’s only ever bought meat neatly shrink wrapped at the grocery store suddenly having to slaughter their own meat. Many really aren’t going to like it.
—-
File this next part under the thoughts of a church of Christ guy who is deeply skeptical of some of the ways we’ve organized our churches today. What I’m about to say is likely to offend a lot of folks. Feel free to skip ahead.
I’m deeply skeptical of the “security teams” that we’re organizing in a lot of our churches. We’ve organized these suburban churches that give us these curated experiences that make us feel good about our personal relationships with Jesus. But, do we see the Gospel in our churches?
if we’re not careful - the illusion of security in our churches can become idolatrous. I think we really need to struggle with this more than we do.
To go back to my Kingdom language from earlier, I think we see ourselves as being close to the center of the Kingdom. But, in reality we’ve created these cloistered, walled off churches and don’t realize that we’re way more isolated than we think we are. Jesus referred to folks like this as whitewashed tombs once upon a time - and I think It’s probably worth holding up mirror every now and then and taking a good hard look.
The irony of it is, we don’t realize it - but we’re not fully experiencing the Kingdom either. There’s a rich seven course meal waiting, but we’ve convinced ourselves that the stale sandwiches we’re eating are as good as it gets.
This young man is isolated in ways that are public. But, what we don’t realize is that a lot of us experience isolation in ways that are just as debilitating - but we suffer in private.
One of the things that we’ve lost in the modern Western church is that historically there was no idea of personal salvation. Redemption and salvation was delivered through community.
I’d offer for thought that by leaving our comfort and heading to the borders of the Kingdom, we might find that salvation comes to us all.
Happy to discuss this further out of this thread.
—-
Back to this young man, I’d offer some pragmatic thoughts.
1. Let your safety team operate as sort of “congregational concierges.” I think we see shootings and want to see the outsider as an opposition force. But, in the Kingdom, everyone is welcome. This young man may in fact go to the front of the line at the proverbial wedding banquet. We need people on these teams who default to being welcome and generous.
2. This young man may not be in a place where he’s ready to accept help. He may not know that he needs help. But, if we figure that God brings people though our doors for a reason - then we need to see him and invite him into the Kingdom.
3. But, it’s okay to set some ground rules. Sort of a framework like - we’re happy to help - but you can’t be high at services. You cannot ask members for money. Appoint a point of contact (maybe a deacon) and funnel through that person.
4. Think about other resources in your congregation who might be able to help. For instance, you might have folks who would never volunteer for a “safety team” - but who work in other helpful spaces. In our church, we have nurses, a mental health resource, people who work in non profits in housing, and social workers. The value that they bring to the table is infinite. And, it’s great to see them use their professional talents for the Kingdom.
5. Consider outside help. We put something in place a while back where we basically subsidize counseling for our members. Specifically, any member of our church can go to counseling for $5 per session - which basically rounds to free. We pay $70 as a church to make up the difference. I see both the bills and the uptake in our church - and from a pastoral perspective, this is probably the best money we spend in a given year. You’re in middle Tennessee - so I could put you in touch with resources that could set something like this up.
6. Scaffold your help. This is a long effort and there is some fatigue that can go along with it. Have that point person or persons - but check in regularly and have your elders keep up with what’s going on.
7. Work towards reconciliation. This young man needs healing - and his family needs to be a part of it. He and they may not be ready for it - but it’s worth looping back on.
8. Know that the Holy Spirit certainly plays the long game and will work in ways that we cannot even fathom if we’ll just make room for it to happen.
That was a long answer to your question - but know you’re doing Kingdom work. Certainly my prayers are with you.
Happy to talk further if it’s helpful.
Very well presented.
I will opine this:
The church with the little "c" and the Church with the big "C" are two different entities. The big C will take care of this issue. The little c is ill-equipped to handle such problems.
Be prepared by knowing the difference.
Something to look at is where the parking lot and pews start filling.
Parking lot at the rear and pew at the front signals a lot of "C" present.
edit: forgot the 80/20 rule...
-
First thing to do is stop publishing member directories with names, pictures and other personal information
-
5
-
1
-
-
21 hours ago, Omega said:
I'm sure EMS was called, LEO can't pronounce him dead.
What I am suggesting is that if shots are fired there ought to be an automatic dispatch by EMS as a policy. It's just a thought. I'm not calling out the LEO action.
-
On 6/13/2019 at 2:31 PM, GlockSpock said:
I have the personal belief that law enforcement should do anything in their reasonable power to get the suspect as much medical attention needed as quickly as possible.
Yes, he did use his vehicle as a weapon and yes, he did theoretically jump out of his vehicle with the intent to go armed. But, as soon as he was downed and the scene was declared safe, EMS should have been there.
Again, I don't know how true that is regarding this situation. It may have little, if any, relevance.
No clue to procedure, but EMS ought to be dialed up after the first shot, if not sooner. Just my .02...
-
16 hours ago, luke9511 said:
hey everyone i need some land outside of clarksville cleared, does anyone know of any company that comes out that far and can give me an estimate? thanks in advance
Can't help on a referral but I would guess you don't want to pay a Nashville company to do it. They likely would charge you a fortune, given all the work available here in town. I would look in Clarksville or go to the other side of town.
Home Advisor lists these two:
-
1
-
-
15 minutes ago, DaveTN said:
I agree with you except for the justification part. He opened fire on gas tanks and would have killed innocent people if he had set them off. Heck with that; had he lived he would have needed to go to prison for a bunch of years, and life if he killed anyone.
However, Eminent Domain is an egregious trampling of a persons property rights. But the SCOTUS put their stamp of approval on it. I’m surprised more people haven’t lost their lives trying to enforce that. Not that they used it with him; but they could have.
The King of England put his stamp on a few things as well.
-
1
-
-
7 hours ago, DaveTN said:
Sure I can, I can argue it either way. You won’t agree with me if I make a case on why they banned; so I won’t try. Money can't bring bump stocks back; so it matters not what either of us think.
I don’t agree with the way he did it. I’m just saying the ban was inevitable and he seized the opportunity.
During the Vegas shooting all the so call “gun experts” were saying “That’s automatic weapon fire!” including myself.
So when I heard it was bump stocks, common sense told me they were gone; regardless of what I thought about it.
Kamila Harris or whatever Dem gets in is already going to try an executive order outlawing private sales without a background check. They have already said that and it has nothing to do with what Trump does. They will then try an AR ban; turning all of us that refuse to comply into criminals. I suspect states will step in and that will quickly go to the SCOTUS. I guess how fast could depend on who they appoint AG.
I know you think he a tyrant. But he is the elected President. I said the same thing right here when people called for the impeachment of Obama. He was elected not once, but twice. You can’t impeach a President because you don’t like him. I hated him and I think he did more to hurt this country than any President I have ever seen; and I believe it was intentional. The voters disagreed with me.
However, beyond that, to compare Trump to Obama on gun control is laughable; it can’t be discussed seriously.
I don't think they disagreed. I think they got what they wanted. They just haven't gotten enough yet.
-
As far as the bumpstock ban, I always thought that those things should be illegal to operate/own without proper training and a license (kind of like a car). But that's just based on my viewing of youtube videos....
But my opinion on ownership is rather archaic. I think you should be given firearms training in first grade as a pre-req.
-
.gov, just like all the kings and rulers past, present, and future, fear chaos and unrest from the masses more than anything else. That's why welfare is such a great thing. .gov telling the masses that aliens are here and we don't have a clue what to do about it would cause .gov's world to fall apart quickly.
AOC is a lifeform that, unfortunately, can be understood and accepted.
Well, not understood, exactly.
-
4 hours ago, DaveTN said:
we can’t be the only life in the universe.
We can be but we don't have to be....
I've talked to a couple of pilots who said, without going into much detail, that they've seen some weird s#|+ in the night sky. These conversations were decades ago and the pilots were pretty senior military types.
-
A nice big, round tree worked for us when we were kids. We also used each others feet playing a game called chicken. But that was a different time....
-
1
-
-
23 hours ago, AuEagle said:
Two books I recommend are "This Present Darkness" & "Piercing The Darkness" by Frank Peretti.
Both books describe demonic activity in modern day stories.
I apologize if this is a thread drift.
Both good reads. Deep on a different level.
-
1
-
-
I'm low on ammo......no s**t....
We need a medic......For WHAT????
I can't f**king hear......yeah, neither can I....
Incredible...
-
Attended the play several years ago with a group of people who, we'll say, were probably not very happy with the last Presidential election outcome. Not friends, but close enough acquaintances for me to know the demeanor of most of them. Had dinner afterwards at ones' home. Never been surrounded by a more uncomfortable bunch of liberals in my life.
Great play, by the way.
-
1
-
-
18 minutes ago, Ronald_55 said:
My biggest concern is 100% of the population left with just the local resources. At least if it was a fast sweeping pandemic the population drops quicky so some resources are left.
Unfortunately you need to know where in that 10 mile radius to find more supplies when yours inevitably run out.
Producing ethanol takes time but eventually might get us back driving. Or at least running tractors and chainsaws. In the interim I agree bikes and horses (if you can keep people from eating them) would be priceless.
Those bikes must be pretty crunchy.
-
8 hours ago, Erik88 said:
Wow. I told myself to not even bother posting in this thread and yet I did it anyways. Thanks for the reminder to stop wasting my time.
Glad I am able to assist you in your contribution to society by finding useful things to do with your time. Maybe you'll be able to solve some real problems now that you've regained your focus. Go get 'em tiger.
-
1
-
-
17 minutes ago, Erik88 said:
I think the criticism of GPS is fair but I will point out one thing that has changed in the past 20-30 years. Traffic. Back in the 80-90's it was easier to glance at a map or directions without fear of missing your exit or running into someone. Now traffic is so bad in most cities that having the hands free GPS call out directions really makes things easier and safer. I couldn't imagine trying to drive through a new city today while relying on just a map. You'd have to constantly be searching for mile markers and thus not really focusing on the road. Think about all the times your GPS tells you your exit is coming up in 1 mile and it takes half a mile before someone lets you safely change lanes. Without GPS road trips would be hell today.
If an EMP happens I'm sure my non-functioning GPS will be the least of my worries.
I try to use my navigation app simply as a map. Input destination, study the route, put the device down.
When map apps first hit the market, I got misdirected too often relying on spoken directions, so I turn the map lady off most times. I agree that spoken directions make a good companion while driving in the city but I still try to have my route in my head so I'll know that after a few miles traveling west I'll need to turn left to a heading of 18 to get near enough to the field in order to get in the approach pattern, then I can focus on the runway. If I am trying to get to Joe's house and find myself surrounded by warehouses, that's a clue to me that something might be a little off.
On the point about searching for mile markers and not focusing on the road, if (in my opinion) you are so focused on the road that you cannot track mile markers, you are a danger to yourself and others. A constant scan of the surroundings inside and outside of your vehicle will keep you out of danger much more so than staring at the white lines and the bumper ahead of you.
Just my .02.
-
1
-
-
On 4/27/2019 at 12:43 PM, OLDNEWBIE said:
Besides, a
2004CherokeeJeep is expected to have a few chronic quirks and problems.Fixed...
-
1
-
-
belated...
-
....persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed....
-
2
-
-
No contacts for you but I would hit my agent up assuming you have one....he/she owes you....
El Paso Mall shooting
in General Chat
Posted
Don't Ban Guns
Ban People !