StephenB
-
Posts
21 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Feedback
0%
Content Type
Forums
Events
Store
Articles
Posts posted by StephenB
-
-
9 hours ago, Redarrow6 said:
I am new to Tn. and find the rules confusing concerning constitutional carry and enhanced carry.
Also, does the law require signage at all entrances to the business?
Enhanced carry in TN only gives you a few more privileges than permitless carry including parks (no school events), nature trails, greenways, etc. as defined in TCA 39-17-1311 as well as university employees in TCA 39-17-1309. I've never seen a "Concealed Firearms by Permit Only" sign but that's mentioned in the law as well. Here's a good summary document: https://memphispolice.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Permitless-Carry-Citizen-Guidance-Leaflet-English.pdf
All that being said, I chose to get my Enhanced Handgun Permit for the reciprocity with other states and training (personal thing).
Oh, and yes, signage is required at all entrances.
-
1
-
-
On 9/13/2022 at 11:06 PM, monkeylizard said:
As mentioned above, join the TFA. That's one of the best ways to try to get good work done on our behalf on TN Capitol Hill.
I had not heard about the TFA until recently. It looks like they don't keep the site up very well, but they do have an active Facebook presence so I assume they are still an active organization. Do they publish information for what they are trying to get changed (like 39-17-1359)?
-
On 9/13/2022 at 11:00 PM, monkeylizard said:
As far as has ever been reported here that I can recall, the only case of anyone being prosecuted for carrying past a sign was around 10 years ago or so in Memphis at a (I think) Kawasaki dealership. The place had been recently robbed, maybe multiple times (10+ years ago . . I don't remember specifics).
Anyway, long story short, the signs were huge and obvious. This predated the current specific signage laws needing the TCA reference. I think maybe the offender was even warned verbally NOT to carry but did it anyway. A pretty blatant thumbing of his nose at the proprietor. Police were called. Charges were filed. I don't recall exactly what the outcome was, or if we ever learned the final outcome, but he probably got to see a judge at some point.I think at that time, a conviction under 39-17-1359 meant a mandatory suspension of the HCP but that's no longer in 1359.
Thank you for the information. I'm actually in that part of the state, but it sounds with the current law the most one can get is a $500 fine and still retain HCP.
-
TN code 39-17-1359 that enforces properly posted signs drives me nuts. I will never understand this. Anyone who is going to do something bad will not be stopped by a sign with specific sized letters. The way I see it is a business owner should be allowed to post a sign and if they see me carrying they can ask me to leave or I will be trespassed - I would happily leave with no issues. It creates "soft spots" if nothing else. Law abiding citizens are the only ones who will even think about honoring a sign and those are the people who are not the threat. I have emailed lawmakers in the state and hope one day they will realize how dumb it is. Even if they made the sign only apply to permitless carriers at least it would be a small step forward, even though I believe it should not apply to anyone.
-
4
-
-
I do not intentionally carry where properly posted according to TN Code 39-17-1359 even though I completely disagree that signs should carry the force of law and I've written our lawmakers to express my opinion on the matter - no criminal is going to care one second about a sign. Anyway...
- Has anyone ever carried past a sign and were caught?
- Where in the state did it happen (if you're comfortable saying)?
- Were you prosecuted and had to pay the $500 fine?
- Since it's a misdemeanor and not a felony, I assume there was no impact on your ability to retain your carry permit? (just double-checking that I'm not missing something)
Thank you for the discussion.
-
Usually I carry my 365xl appendix but occasionally I'll carry my GX4.
-
Based on my reading of the law, I understand that carrying in a place that is properly posted to prohibit guns is a misdemeanor and no more than $500 fine. I typically do not carry where posted but movie theaters make me nervous. If I ever did carry in such a place, am I correct in that the worse that could happen is the $500 fine and I would not lose my enhanced carry permit?
Also, for those who live near the border and go into northern MS, can you provide information on the penalty for carrying in a posted establishment (thinking movie theaters again) if you have an enhanced carry permit in TN?
Thank you
-
Welcome! I've lived here all my life and I've recently realized how lucky I really am living in this part of the country.
-
1
-
-
19 hours ago, chances R said:
It lies between Oak Ridge Hwy and Pleasant Ridge Rd....close to NorthWest Middle School. Yes, if one becomes aware of a school event, one must then store the weapon in the car (locked of course) or leave. If you want, the Handgun Division in Nashville can be very helpful with questions. Or, there is regional rep from the division that can be reached. Just ask any school for their number in your area. BTW, I do enjoy these discussions and hopefully give some clarification especially here on TGO. And yes, sometimes not all of the instructors agree....that's where Nashville comes in.
I am going to correct the flow chart. I think the only thing I need to do is possibly change some wording where I refer to the public park, natural area, etc. to include playground, civic center, and other recreational areas (just for examples based on 39-17-1311) to follow the same path where it asks if there is a school event and if not then checks for the concealed or enhanced permit. Does that sound accurate?
-
15 minutes ago, chances R said:
"recreational areas" is a very broad brush. This would include greenways, dog parks, specific parks such as Victor Ashe park here in Knoxville which is a multi-sport park, sometimes used by schools for cross-country or soccer. Public golf courses and on and on. One could imagine the complexity of go/no go, so carry is permitted by state law which trumps local ordinances. In fact, only the State can regulate firearms, exception is the Federal Gov'mt.
I actually lived in Knoxville while in college. I probably heard of Victor Ashe park but don't remember. Too many years ago. So during those times it is used by schools, no carry is allowed. In reading the law, is almost like it's a bit forgiving if it was not explicitly known there was a school event.
-
Just now, chances R said:
The law for carry was specifically designed to avoid those public enities from being able to create a matrix of confusing and contridictary laws. Since I have been teaching the carry courses since 2012, those areas we are discussing are completely legal for carry by permit. To be prohibited they would have to invoke all conditions noted under 39-17-1359 (g)(1). This was implemented to ward off a lawsuit regarding carry at the Knoxville fairgrounds during the fair. Sometimes I have found US Law Shield can be misleading.
Good info but I wonder why they explicitly listed everything but those. I do understand why a playground may be off limits especially given the same reason a park during a school event is.
-
1 hour ago, chances R said:
StephenB, please check this again......Playground, civic center, or other area owned or operated by municipal, county, or state government for recreational purposes
(b)(1)(H)(i) is the exception for permit holders
Actually, I had assumed that same thing in my initial version; however, in the law it never states the exception for a playground, civic center, or other city/state/county area for recreational purposes. The title of the specific section of the law refers to 4 different areas - "public parks, playgrounds, civic centers, and other public recreational buildings and grounds". In 39-17-1311 (b)(1)(H)(i) it explicitly lists areas where the exception applies for permit holders, but does not include those 4 listed above. It's confusing and I missed it initially until I spotted in some US LawShield materials that there was no carry in those 4 areas for any permit holder and I went back and corrected the flowchart.
-
I just uploaded a later version where I had changed "Permitted" and "Not Permitted" to "Allowed" and "Not Allowed" because I realized that may have been confusing with the previous question and the meaning of the term "permitless" carry.
-
2 hours ago, elbereth said:
Third meaning permitless carry
Yes. It's included in the flowchart as well.
-
1 hour ago, elbereth said:
This is great and thanks for your work. I've been looking for an Excel based comparison of the 3 permit types and the situations where they are or are not allowed. Are you aware of one of those that already exists?
I only know of two permit types - concealed and enhanced - and they are called out on the flowchart with basically no difference except maybe in reciprocity. Which third permit were you thinking?
-
Does anyone else have a TN handgun permit and regularly carry in northern MS? I am a new enhanced carry permit holder and go to Southaven on a regular basis. I have read through content on handgunlaw.us and things seem a little more complicated than they should be when it comes to where I can carry with a reciprocated permit vs. without one. I do not attend church in MS or go to any schools and I would never consume alcohol while concealing. Am I missing any other risky situations? Just trying to make sure I don't accidentally get in any trouble. I'm also very interested in posted places like some movie theaters.
Thank you
-
I recently received my Enhanced Carry permit in TN and often go to northern MS. Based on my reading, there are limitations for permitless including churches, schools, polling locations, etc. It appears that a person in MS who has taken the safety course and received a permit can pretty much carry anywhere except police stations, court, where posted, and a couple other places but the permit relaxes the carry restrictions in most other places. Is that correct? While I never expect to go to a school or polling station in MS, I just want to make sure I understand the laws for a TN permit holder as I do go there quite often.
I'm curious if anyone has the details and personal experience.
Thanks
-
2 hours ago, chances R said:
Doesn't included an option for employees of post-secondary educational institutes with ECP and notification of campus police for allowable carry.
Agree. I saw that in the law but did not include it as a common scenario; however, I'll probably go back and include situations like that, federal parks, etc. Thanks
-
1
-
-
Welcome from just outside the Memphis area.
-
7 hours ago, Defender said:
I like this! Do you have one for HCP and enhanced HCP?
It has a branch in the flow that asks the question if the individual has a concealed or enhanced. I started to do a flow with the perspective of the permit itself, but quickly discovered it flows better based on where you may be going and then ask the question about the permit where it's relevant.
-
1
-
-
I have spent some time analyzing the TN gun laws for my own knowledge and tried to simplify the most common scenarios that many of us may encounter. The following flowchart doesn't include all situations like employees of universities with permits, for example. However, I tried to include what I understood as the laws and how they pertain to those with and without a permit. I am not sure that this is exactly correct and the law seems to be a bit more complicated than I would like, but I attempted to put it in a format that I could more easily consume. I would appreciate any feedback or help in validating what is here. Please do not bank on this being 100% acccurate as laws change and my interpretation may not have been correct in some situations. Hopefully it helps some of us not get into unnecessary trouble.
Thanks
EDIT: Updated May 27, 2022
-
5
-
3
-
-
I'm Stephen and new to the forum. I grew up in a small town in east TN near Chattanooga, went to college at the University of TN in Knoxville, and moved to the suburbs of Memphis about 25 years ago for work. I remember my dad loving guns when I was growing up but I was never personally interested until recently. I own my first handgun - a Sig p365xl - and am taking the enhanced carry class in a week. I've become really interested in going to the range and all things concealed carry. Still learning a lot.
-
1
-
-
I am in the Memphis area and frequently go into northern Mississippi. I am taking my TN Enhanced Carry class in a week and will complete the remaining steps to (hopefully) quickly get my permit. I know MS and TN reciprocate but in the meantime before I actually get my permit can I go into MS with (1) a loaded gun in my center console of my car and (2) concealed carry. I know MS is Constitutional Carry but does that apply to non-residents without a permit or only to residents of MS or residents of other reciprocating states who have a permit in one of those other states?
Thank you
Carrying in a Properly Posted Business
in Handgun Carry and Self Defense
Posted
Good clarification