waynesan

Tower, The third Saturday is the weekend of the monthly trophy shoot at Cherokee and I was leaving on vacation after the match. Hope to get out with you guys real soon. Sounds like ya'll have a great time.

I have been shooting IDPA for about a year and have been going to TAC 2 on the second Saturdays of the month every time I'm off for their matches. I finally made it down for my first IPSC match a couple months ago and absolutely had a ball. Great range run by great people. About a 40 minute drive from my house in Kingsport and worth every minute of it.

Here is a site I check just before I leave to go to another state. http://handgunlaw.us/ They "seem" to be pretty up to date with everything I've looked at so far. They even have a link to every states "off limits" places which I find very helpful. I printed off about 20 states "off limits" before a planned road trip out west to keep in a folder in my car. But no site can always be totally up to date so it pays to check the state's website just to be sure if in doubt.

Here is a link to an article by an LEO on the danger of intervening in situations with a gun and how things can go wrong. Reinforces some things we all know with some real life outcomes when things went bad. Gave me a lot to think about. http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...tervention.asp

Here is a cool video with a great song. I hope its not been posted before. I did a search and couldn't find it here. I've seen it posted on several boards the last few days. Hope you enjoy it. [ame] [/ame]

By the way, here is a listing of all the Senate Members who deal with OSHA. Republican: Johnny Isakson (GA) Richard Burr (NC) Lisa Murkowski (AK) Pat Roberts (KS) Wayne Allard (CO) Tom Coburn (OK) Michael Enzi (WY) (ex officio) Democrat: Patty Murray (WA) Christopher Dodd (CT) Tom Harkin (IA) Barbra Mikulski (MD) Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY) Barack Obama (IL) Sherrod Brown (OH) Edward Kennedy (MA) (ex officio)

I went to this link and got the actual proposed rule change and couldn't believe what I saw. This thing is 55 pages long. Has anyone read through this thing and noted where the changes are that will affect shooters and retailers? I skimmed over about 15 pages and was so inundated with legaleeze my eyes skimmed over and started crossing so I gave up. I did see some important info on page 14, issue #4. Here's the link: http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?...R=BP070207.cfm Click on "regulatory rule" in the first paragraph.

Thanks Marswolf, As always from you, a very interesting post. I am very envious of our neighbors in Va. for being allowed to carry in Va. State Parks. I have had a few occasions since Va. changed their law to allow this to go to a Va. Park and it was really nice not to have to leave my gun at home or hide it in my car while there. I just wish our wise leaders in Nashville could see that this is no problem and change our laws to allow us the same "legal" right.

Here is a post I copied from packing.org that was originally posted on 1911.com that I thought was interesting. Definately food for thought. 1. We don't carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don't walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don't get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don't hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first. 2. We don't think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren't hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don't take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness. We don't believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extraordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided. 3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or "rage" incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don't pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want. 4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other security measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership. 5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well-made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on its own. 6. We do not believe in the concept of "accidental discharges". There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun "going off" was the result of negligence on somebody's part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America. 7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it's very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private security. Please don't generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like "there's a guy running around in the store with a gun" or even simply "I saw a man with a gun in the store" could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the incident. 8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any time. Criminals do not observe "gun free zones". If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we think a location is. 9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases. 10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don't believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe "gun free zones". Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims.

I love Bluegrass. My favorites are: Dell McCurry Cherryholmes Alison Krauss IIIrd Time Out I also like country but lean more to the female artists: Martina McBride Julie Roberts Trisha Yearwood Shania Twain (not so much anymore but at one time I couldn't even go to sleep because of her) Kellie Pickler Reagan Boggs (a local artist who should be the queen of country rock) Danielle Peck (Saw her last night at the Va-Ky District Fair in Wise Va. Not more than 300 people there due to the weather but man what a show. Probably the most beautiful woman to ever sing a country song.)

Just got back yesterday from 5 day trip thru Pennsylvania. Very relaxed gun laws and can carry just about everywhere. It is so nice to go to a restaurant and not have to leave the gun in the car just because they serve alchohol. We went to a lot of places and I did not see a "no guns" sign anywhere. Tennessee definately has a way to go to improve its handgun laws.

Thanks looneeetunes, I just sent individual e-mails to everyone on the list. It took about 30 minutes. Sure hope we see some good results.

This note was sent to me today by Tim Nunan: -----------------------------Rep. Frank Nicely introduced House Bill 2184 (HB2184) to remove the restriction on individuals possessing valid handgun carry permits carrying in state parks. Rep. Briley, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, amended the bill to remove all restrictions on carry on state and local government property. Briley did this as a poison pill hoping that such a broad removal of restrictions would defeat the bill in committee. Didn t work, the bill passed out of committee prompting Briley to amend it again by adding the following: The appropriate governmental entity shall post visible signage informing any person entering a public park, playground, civic center or other building, facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes that the carrying of handguns by persons who have been issued a handgun carry permit pursuant to § 39-17-1351 is permitted on such property. If passed with this amendment, state and local governments would be at considerable expense to print and post the required signsand may lead to the bill s defeat. Or so Briley, and I suspect Naifeh, hope. Current law does not require any other property owner, nor would this amendment, to post such a sign. This is clearly another attempt by Briley to cause the bill s defeat. The following serve on the Calendar and Rules Committee: Larry Miller, Chair John Hood, Vice-Chair Nathan Vaughn, Secretary Joe Armstrong, Stratton Bone, Rob Briley, Tommie F. Brown, Frank Buck,Glen Casada, Charles Curtiss, Lois Deberry, John J. DeBerry, Jr., Craig Fitzhugh, Ulysses Jones, Jr., Mike Kernell, Mark Maddox, Steve McDaniel, Michael McDonald, Jason Mumpower, Jimmy Naifeh, Gary Odom, Doug Overbey, Phillip Pinion, Randy Rinks, and Les Winningham In order to get this bill out of committee it is imperative that the members be contacted, in a positive but respectful manner. The committee s telephone number is (615) 741-7016. Clicking on any of the committee member s names will provide their office telephone number and e-mail address. If you do contact committee members, and have time, I d be very interested in the response you receive. OK guys and gals, I just clicked on every legislators' name to see who may be for us and who may be agin us. For what its worth, there are 4 Republicans and 21 Democrats on this committee. Many of the Dems are from West Tn and the Memphis area. This is not looking good.

Here is a link to the Knoxville News Sentinel about the Park Carry Bill we've been watching. If the article is correct, it may be in trouble.....again, (sigh). http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/state/article/0,1406,KNS_348_5529126,00.html Any thoughts??

Len, Thanks for posting your question as you did. I always enjoy reading your posts. You are correct that there is an awful lot of information about us that is a matter of public record. And much of that information is useful for the general public to be able to access. Property taxes, ownership, real estate selling prices, criminal histories and many other such factoids about us and our dealings can be beneficial in many ways by being accessable to the public at large. However, I think when it comes to firearms you enter into a catagory of life that is different than most others, especially when it comes to Handgun Carry. Many people, whichever side of the carry issue they come down on, approach the issue with an almost religeous zeal. (I know I do) And I for one would rather choose who knows about my predilection for gun carry as opposed to being "outed" by a newspaper that does not have my best interest at heart, and quite frankly would like to see my right to carry taken away. Editorially, I don't think the "Tennessean" has been our friend. In spite of what I just said, for me personally, I would not expect the fact that I carry being made public to cause me any great harm. I can imagine in some certain nefarious scenarios, that in all likelihood will not take place, someone could use such a database and cause me trouble. My concern is not so much about my own well being but more so about others. I mentioned in an earlier post that my daughter, who lives alone, and has a carry permit, was listed on the database. And although her address was not given, because of an unusual name spelling and her city of residence, her identity could easily be determined by someone who really wanted to know. And it is not too hard to imagine that because of her occupation, an anti-carry supervisor (the religeous zeal factor I mentioned) could definately cause her problems. And I don't think she is alone in finding herself working for an organization that has a group mentality that would look down on someone who thinks personal firearms are an answer to violent attacks. I don't know if this link has been posted, but it is a video done by CNN on the mess the Roanoke Times got into by posting the names of Va. concealed carry holders. [ame= ] [/ame]Finally, in spite of my disgust at the "Tennessean" for posting the database for what I consider no other reasons than to rile the pro-carry crowd and to pretend they were performing some noble service by makeing the database easily accessed, I am also angry at the State Legislature for not making the identity of Handgun Permit holders only available to Law Enforcement. Other states have done this and we should too. Maybe something to work on in the future. I could say more. But my fingers are getting tired and I got to go mow the yard.

I heard about this a while ago listening to the Steve Gill Show. I looked and found my name and the name of some friends. What really makes me angry is I also found my daughter's name. She has an unusual spelling for her name so anyone who sees it will know its her and where she lives. She is single and lives alone. This kind of thing is totally irresponsible on the part of the Tennessean and I might add on the part of the State Legislature for allowing this information to be available for sensational rags like the Tennessean. I have no problem with Law Enforcement to have access to this info. But for the news media to be able to post this info serves no purpose but to give them an opportunity to pretend they are doing something useful for the good of the community.

I was listening to "Cam and Company" tonight and Sen Mark Norris was one of the guests. He was talking about the bill preventing the govt. from taking your guns during a state of emergency. As you know it passed and is on its way to the Governor. On a whim, I used their instant message thing to ask him a questiion ( which I figured would not get asked due to all the messages I'm sure they get and the time restraint ). Low and behold within a couple of minutes Cam read my question to the Senator about whether he thought the bills allowing handgun carry in state parks and national forests would pass. He talked pretty optimistically about them passing. I sure hope he's right.

I'll be calling Friday. Seems like I spend more time on the phone to Nashville lately than I do on the computer. (And that's a lot) But until this session ends, contacting the reps is what we have to do if we have a chance to see things change.

Thanks for posting that link Hyaloid. I wish I could read the editorial, but apparently they require you to pay to read their wisdom online.

Just got off the phone. I called every single member on the committee using the 800# and spoke to the staff or left message. I called during lunch so I guess a lot of them were out. Using the 800# is a little time consuming because you have to go through a couple of "punch in your number requests" but after a couple of calls you get your speed up and it goes faster. Sometimes when you call for things like this you may wonder if it makes a difference. (I do) But when one of the staff folks answered the phone and I told her what I was calling for, she asked if I had just called another rep and left a message for the same thing. I said "Yeah, I'm calling everyone on the committee'. She said she had just listened to the message for the other rep (she works for both of them) and had pulled up the Bill Numbers to give to him. So I guess the message does reach the reps. One of the reps staff (didn't catch which one) just called back to tell me she had got my message. She said there had been ten calls today in support of the legislation and she was sure he would support it. Get to work guys and make those calls.

I sure hope you're right.

Thanks Len. That clears it up. Its good to have you here for these kinds of things.

That's a lot to digest. Does anybody know why there are so many bills that say the same thing but seem to have been handled differently? If a bill is said to have been refered back to some committee, does that mean its dead for this term? Thanks Tungsten for keeping us informed.

Thanks Tungsten. I'll call in the morning.

Hyaloid, I have shot IDPA at TAC2 in Greeneville and at Kettlefoot in Bristol. TAC2 shoots on the 2nd Saturday each month and Kettlefoot shoots on the 4th Saturday each month. Both ranges are run very well and get a big thumbs up from me. I'm sure TAC2 does more than IDPA but I'm not sure what all they do. I'm not sure about Kettlefoot. In your original post, you sound a lot like me. I shoot primarily to improve my gun handling skills and not so much to compete against everyone else. And that's OK. I just started IDPA last summer and it is the most fun and educational thing I've ever done with a gun. You really learn about your gun when you shoot the games.