Free Can

[Guest logicprevails]

A buddy of mine had purchased a can under a trust while living in Miami. The can's still in Miami. Trust was to a corporation that he says is dissolved. Can he sell or gift the can. He would gift to me if possible. Being totally new to NFA toys, I need the feedback of an expert or two. Can a deal be done, or is there something preventing the legal transfer of this item to me? Could it be held at a Class III dealer while the tax stam is being waited for?

[Guest JHatmaker]

My understanding is that as long as he own's it (and not the corporation), he can give/sell it as long as the proper paperwork is completed (Form 4), etc.

AS far as being held at a Class III dealer, I think he can just hold on to it until you get your stamp, then a transfer would be completed at the proper FFL.

[Guest Plunky]

It will cost you two stamps ($400 total) since it is out of state. One stamp to transfer to a dealer, one stamp to transfer it to you. No way to avoid paying the transfer tax since it is out of state (especially if the trust is in FL).

[Guest logicprevails]

It will cost you two stamps ($400 total) since it is out of state. One stamp to transfer to a dealer, one stamp to transfer it to you. No way to avoid paying the transfer tax since it is out of state (especially if the trust is in FL).

Seems it would almost be as cost effective to just buy one here and pay the tax stamp for an original purchase.

[Guest redbarron06]

I dont know for sure I would call the ATF but I think that he can transfer to a dealer similure to the manufacture does on what ever form they use then ship to the dealer once that form comes back then the dealer holds it until your form 4 comes back.

Even if you have to pay the stamp 2 times it is still cheaper to pay that then 5-1200 for the can and still have to pay for the stamp. Most cases you will also have to pay the dealer a transfer fee. For me Guns and Leather in Greenbriar was cheaper than anybody else I found. $50 for a can. Most of the other places I called were $100. I did not get a price from Outpost as they were not Class II dealers at the time. Dealers normally dont charge that if you buy a can that they have in stock.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

just a question? what is a can? please don't laugh just trying to understand subject matter...

[Guest bkelm18]

just a question? what is a can? please don't laugh just trying to understand subject matter...

A suppressor.

[Jasongar8]

If an individual has the suppressor in any other state besides the one you live in, you will have to pay 2 transfers. One will be from the individual to a Class III dealer here in TN, then the second will be from the dealer to you. A form 3 is a tax free transfer from dealer to dealer. Also if you live in the same state as the person you are buying a MG, SBR, SBS, AOW, or suppressor then the item can stay with the seller until the buyer gets his form 4 back from BATFE.

[Guest crotalus01]

Hotshot, a can is slang for a silencer which some people call suppressors, which is technically more correct terminology since they suppress the sound of shooting, not silence it.

However, Hiram Maxim, who invented this wonderful contraption, called it a SILENCER, and by God thats good enough for me.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

You will need two stamps. Not sure if you are stating that it is owned by corporation or trust but even if the corporation has it you can still transfer it within a reasonable time.Under Florida law, the officer of a dissolved corporation is able to wind up the business of the corporation within a reasonable time period. Depending on how long the corporation has been dissolved will determine if the can is still legal or not. One problem is that he is not legal to be in possession, but he can send it to a class 3 transfer agent in your state ($200), and you can fill out a form 4 ($200) to receive it from them. Many Class 3 SOT's often charge a small admin fee for this service.

QUOTE=Plunky;358288]It will cost you two stamps ($400 total) since it is out of state. One stamp to transfer to a dealer, one stamp to transfer it to you. No way to avoid paying the transfer tax since it is out of state (especially if the trust is in FL).

Edited October 22, 2009 by Gun Trust Lawyer- David G

[Armed Aviator]

Here is an Ignert question . . . What's a can?

[Jasongar8]

Here is an Ignert question . . . What's a can?

A sound suppressor or as some incorrectly call them a "silencer".

[BimmerFreak]

You will only need one stamp not two. Under Florida law, the officer of a dissolved corporation is able to wind up the business of the corporation within a reasonable time period. Depending on how long the corporation has been dissolved will determine if the can is still legal or not. One problem is that he is not legal to be in possession, but he can send it to a class 3 transfer agent in your state, and you can fill out a form 4 to receive it from them. They often charge a small admin fee for this service.

Better check your facts Counselor...

Florida Law has NOTHING to do with how many stamps will need to be paid to get this suppressor out of State.

As mentioned before:

Dissolving Corp/Legal entity will need to transfer NFA item to a SOT in his state (200.00)

SOT then transfers (on Form 3, so no tax paid) to another SOT out of state.

New owner completes Form 4 (200.00) at SOT, and waits for stamp to come in.

** If you can prove me wrong, I welcome it.

We have a similar situation dealing with a NFA Trust out of Florida involving some machineguns, and my being wrong will save us a ton of money...

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

While suppressor is a more appropriate term, the term Silencer is actually defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code which states:

(a)(24) The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

There are several issues we are dealing with here.

1) Florida law on dissolving / winding up corporations

2) ATF's requirements

3) The National Firearms Act.

The Florida law I was quoting was the law on dissolving a corporation and how officers of that corporation can act after it is dissolved.

ATF looks to state law to determine who is rightfully in possession of Firearms under the NFA. As this is the case, an officer of a dissolved corporation (within a reasonable time- months not years) can transfer an item subject to the NFA just like they could while the entity was active with the state. Only 1 tax stamp is necessary for a corporation to to transfer to an individual within the state. This is obtained using a Form 4 from the corporation to the individual.

This is not the case when you are transferring the item to a resident of another state or across state lines or if the dissolved corporation does not take action within a "reasonable time".

Just verified with ATF that they look to state law to determine when a corporation and whom in a corporation is able to act on behalf of the entity.

All this being said, often the entity has been dissolved to long. In that case, if it was an administrative dissolution, the entity can be brought current through paying the back fees at www.sunbiz.org - Home and then the transaction could proceed as normal.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

I may have been confused, but it was my understanding that the transfer was from a Florida company to a Florida resident. Not an interstate transfer ( FL corp/trust to TN resident) which would require 2 stamps.

Better check your facts Counselor...

Florida Law has NOTHING to do with how many stamps will need to be paid to get this suppressor out of State.

As mentioned before:

Dissolving Corp/Legal entity will need to transfer NFA item to a SOT in his state (200.00)

SOT then transfers (on Form 3, so no tax paid) to another SOT out of state.

New owner completes Form 4 (200.00) at SOT, and waits for stamp to come in.

** If you can prove me wrong, I welcome it.

We have a similar situation dealing with a NFA Trust out of Florida involving some machineguns, and my being wrong will save us a ton of money...

Edited October 22, 2009 by Gun Trust Lawyer- David G

[BimmerFreak]

So to answer the OPs question:

You have to pay 2 stamps. Period.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

Correct 2 stamps are needed for an out of state transfer when one is not a Class 3 SOT.

, I clarified my statement above to correct the issue.

Thanks for pointing this out.

So to answer the OPs question:

You have to pay 2 stamps. Period.