TMMT

Well a cop with common sense would see the steps you've taken and reach the conclusion that you did your absolute best under the give circumstances and think nothing more of it, handle the traffic stop and bid you all a safe night. But we all know the old joke about cops and common sense.

He needs to call his State Representative because this ADA is clearly lacking in his/her knowledge of the job. This needs to be brought to the attention of someone who can put pressure on this person to obey the law.

Does that come with the meal or after?

An affirmative defense claim is basically a reason or justification for doing what you did. An exception is basically an exemption to a rule or law, like an LEO being exempt from hand gun carry laws.

State Audit: TBI Needs Better Record Keeping Bureau Doesn't Always Have The Most Up-To-Date Information, Says Audit State Audit: TBI Needs Better Record Keeping - Nashville News Story - WSMV Nashville NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The public relies on the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation for criminal background checks. The purpose is to weed out those who shouldn't be working in schools or buying guns. The TBI is essentially the criminal information hub for the entire state, meaning they are the collection point for every arrest made in Tennessee. A recent state audit of the TBI reveals the bureau still does not know the disposition of many arrests. A disposition lists what charge a person was arrested on, the final charge, and their sentence. It's important to have the most accurate disposition information so background checks will also be accurate. Every month, court clerks across the state are required to send the disposition information to the Administrative Office of the Courts, or AOC. To slow the process, as of June, the majority of Tennessee's 91 counties were still mailing the information. From the AOC, the dispositions are then passed on to the TBI. The problem is that according to the audit, of the state's more than 2 million arrests between February 2001 and September of 2008, 41 percent lacked a disposition. That's actually an improvement, at one point 77 percent of arrests lacked disposition information. Their goal though is 0 percent. Without accurate and up-to-date criminal information, background checks for jobs in schools, or gun purchases can be delayed or just plain wrong. The TBI did not want to comment on this audit until their hearing next week with the comptroller's office. That is standard policy for any state agency that is audited. They will discuss their plan to improve on the findings. According to the audit, the TBI plans to automate this system by 2011. Still though, that won't solve all the problems. The state has to determine which agency will be responsible for submitting the information.

I've always thought those kind of signs are just blanket invitations for criminals, wonder how the staff and owner would feel if I made a comment like that knowing I was a LEO?

The area of the law where this language has been beaten to death and hashed over again and again in courts is the DUI laws and the application of those terms in similar cases. Courts have long held that you exercise control over a vehicle if you have at your immediate disposal the ability to exercise control with the intent to do so. What this means is that if its your car and you are in possession of the car keys and its in the immediate area and it can be proven that you drove it there or intend to drive away in it, then you are in control of that vehicle.

In all my years of LE I have never encountered more poorly worded statutes, not just gun statutes mind you but general criminal codes that were so poorly written and worded as I have, here in Tennessee. You think the gun laws are messed up you should spend the day waist deep in the Tennessee Revenue Codes.

OhShoot you answered your own question, the distinction is loaded vs unloaded. The term "intent to go armed" is a legal distinction used to separate those who intend to arm themselves vs. those who are transporting an arm.

Once you are in your vehicle and mobile, a traffic stop occurs the vehicle exception to the search warrant kicks in so absent probable cause for a warrantless search the officer would have no reason to go snooping around inside your car, fishing on a traffic stop unless you give consent to search, which you should NEVER give under any reasons no how, no way ever at all. And Im telling you this as a LEO. If the officer has reasonable suspicious that you are carrying a gun, he can separate you from the car and frisk you, then frisk the lunging area inside the car. Notice I said frisk and not search. If one is found, yes you could be arrested coming from a garage which I assume is school/hospital property, if the garage is owned by the city that's entirely another story.

I'll defer to the Possum Police on the hunting question, don't follow those laws too closely. But using it for self defense in your own home on your own property your fine and keeping it loaded on your nightstand your fine as well. There is no age of defense requirements, your 12 year old little brother could grab up the gun and blast a home invader an there would be no statutory legal trouble.

Vanderbilt Hospital is posted, the ER requires you to pass metal detectors. On the hospital side it depends... they could arrest you for carrying or make you return it to your parked car and secure it, really depends on the officer and the circumstances. The hospital from my conversations with a few employees seems to be a very gray area when you toss in the whole college/campus thing. Vanderbilt Medical School and the Nursing School is housed in a wing of the actual hospital and I believe a part of the college itself maybe a science hall is physically attached to the hospital. There is no real physical demarcation of where the college ends and the hospital begins. You also have the VA right smack dab in the middle of the Vanderbilt Complex as well. If you work there I'm sure you are in violation of some obscure employee policy and I'd bet its a fireable offense. Be careful when dealing with Vanderbilt Police, it really depends on the officer you end up dealing with. Some are good guy others have no business being Security Guards, let alone Police Officers.

I've encountered many folks in various places, both while I was on and off duty. I could tell they were carrying, one guy even had two guns. I've never stopped anyone just to check a HCL. Its kinda analogous to a driver driving down the road, I see him. Its not against the law to drive down the road, its against the law to drive down the road w/o a license. But I still need reasonable suspicion to stop the driver to check to see if he has a license. Its not against the law to carry a gun... its against the law to carry w/o a license, absent reasonable suspicion you are either about to, have or will commit a crime I'm not bugging you just to watch you fiddle around with your wallet then be pi$$ed at me the rest of your life...

If you are instructed to leave or face arrest for criminal trespass, the issue of paying for services becomes a civil matter between the business and you. Especially if the establishment is not properly posted or posted at all. One law cannot place you in violation of another. Your intentions were to go in, sit down, order, eat, pay, leave. The owner/agent of the business changed that when he/she demanded you leave under threat of arrest for criminal trespass. You didn't go into the establishment with the intent to leave without paying, no intent on your part to commit a crime. Its at best a civil matter.

Plasma Rifles...

The Woodward Report - The New Conservative Website

I like the idea of OC, folks need to get back into the headspace of not being a bunch of ********* and wetting themselves just because someone has a gun on.

Until you are standing in those shoes, at that time, facing that situation, you will never know how you will react. Taking someone into custody can be tricky... Do you own and carry a pair of handcuffs? Do you practice with them? Even as cops we are taught to cover a suspect and hold out for a cover officer before approaching a suspect and physically taking them into custody. If he runs, he runs. In your case let him go, if he threatens you fine... tell it to the RO, have it placed in the narrative of the report. If he returns now you have double justification to defend yourself, he's committing a violent forceable felony (again) and he threatened you with retaliation the last time he committed a violent forceable felony upon you. Plus his threats will serve to place you into a higher state of awareness/readiness, you might take some firearms training, might up grade your selection of weapons handgun to a shotgun. You might buy a big dog, get a security system, dig a moat and fill it with piranha. Point is you will prepare, he 99.9% of the time won't. Most home invasions nowadays fall into two categories, one the planed invasion where suspects are looking for dope mostly and these tend to hit known dope houses, so unless you are slinging dope or holding someones stash I'd not worry about this type of invasion. Second one is the most common and its a spur of the moment hit, basically a smash and grab. But these almost always have an indicator, usually someone will intentionally come and knock on your door, see if you are home, who's there, how many, and will either ask to use the phone, ask for your help, or more commonly ask for someone who does not live there and when you say so they quickly apologize and leave. They just want a peek inside the house... see if anything is within quick reach.

Thanks for the link Having read the back and forth email exchange it just reenforces my already low opinion of those who are writing these laws that I am tasked with enforcing. The next time you deal with any LEO, please remember this thread posted at your link and multiply that by an order of magnitude and you'll see what we sometimes put up with. I once emailed the State AG using my state email address asking for clarification on a TCA for a felony criminal case and the response I received was more confusing to me and my boss than the TCA statute was.

If its posted its prohibited but there is no specific requirements for the sign type, location or wording again this is ambiguous if not absent in state law. Alos something else where Tennessee laws are beyond hope is any land around/in/on/under/between/beside etc... a lake I think it is still off limits. From reading the statue I think it is owned by the Army Corp of Engineers and does not fall under the new National Park/National Wildlife Areas, but who knows Tennessee made a mess of that too, when it addressed the question of ceded federal venue (jurisdiction) to enforce local and state by local and state LE. Its one of those really gray areas of law where thanks to crafty political wordsmiths those of us who need to know what we can and can't do here, have no clue what we can and can't do, again way to go Tennessee!

For one I disagree with the requirement of a permit to keep a loaded gun in your vehicle, one that is not on your person. The fee for the permit is stupidly ridiculous, not to mention the process requires that you spend an unacceptable amount of time visiting at a minimum three different places, (CCW Class, DMV, Fingerprints) just to complete the application requirements. If its gonna be this polluted then have it all centrally located, period. Fees are non-refundable, even if the state screws up, loses the app or drops the ball, you eat the cost! And don't even get me started on the Parks carry law and the comedy of the opt out provision. The State legislatures have fully ensured that cops will now be thoroughly confused as to what park is good to go and which ones aren't. TCA 39-17-1305© is almost laughable. So is TCA 39-17-1359, basically it says property owners can prohibit guns on all or part of their property, AND adjoining property by posting a sign at prominent locations including all entrances to enter the buildings. But the owner can also include the land you had to traverse to get to the building to see the sign. The sign you can't read unless you broke the law... the badly worded law. And the very ambiguous very open to interpretation descriptions of what the sign could/can/might/may/should look like, well that goes to shows the lack of intelligence of whomever wrote this disaster. Then you have subsection (Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property. So can the owner be held liable if you are injured by a criminal, unable to defend yourself? Do they know this and how does the posting of property play into this? Roadside Rest Stops are another "posted" area where the Tennessee Legislature has managed to create a law so convoluted it makes the parks law look elementary. And no where in any stature is Peaceable Journey Laws addressed. Its a mess. I for one as a LEO with state wide arrest powers will not enforce the parks law absent any other PC, for the simple fact, I can't tell which park is good to go and which on isn't. Nor will I enforce the law requiring a permit to have a loaded gun in one's car again absent any other PC. Horrible laws are the result of politicians who author them out of spite or disdain for their intended target. In this case gun laws, probably written by a politician who would just assume ban them outright. Its time we sent them to collect their unemployment checks.

Having policed in three states over my years I can say that the gun laws in Tennessee actually are not very good, infact compared to some of the neighboring states they suck. While I understand the anger at an over reaching LEO, maybe we should ALL begin venting and complaining to those idiots who wrote and saddled us with all these foolish excuses for gun laws and demand them changed.

Just be careful in and around the larger cities, folks get arrested all the time by Metro for carrying "clubs". 39-17-1302. Prohibited weapons. — (a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs or sells: (8) Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose. Cops here simply argue before the Judicial Commish that fighting is an unlawful activity, and to engage in combat while armed with a club/baton is borderline aggravated assault... I've seen it happen many times. Commissioner always grants the warrant. Metro shot a guy about two or three years ago for wielding an ASP baton But as an honest "Peace Officer" here is the law that gives you a defense to carry: 39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. — (a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was: (9) By any person possessing a club or baton who holds a certificate that the person has had training in the use of a club or baton for self-defense that is valid and issued by a certified person authorized to give training in the use of clubs or batons, and is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws; That said this is not an area of law hammered into young cadets brains during their stay at the academy, so go armed in this manor cautiously. Its not the same, nor will it have the same effect upon a young buck cop, when you hand him or her your TN CHL as apposed to a little card that said you have some training... one they more likely (than not) have never ever seen. The CHL on the other hand, you can count on them remembering that from the academy, trust me...

While I'm all for CCW this type of law would never go. It would fly in the face of so much established private property law courts would strike this one down before it ever left the barn.

I'm sorry... I don't want anything pointed in that direction.