Question about lead bullets for magnum loads...

[JAB]

I just got started reloading and so far have only loaded some fairly mild .38 Special with some factory lead bullets. The bullets I have are marked 'low velocity' on the box so I figure those would be 'out' for .357 Magnum loads. Like the thread title says, I am wondering about types of lead bullets that could be used in .357 loads or, more specifically, the best way to tell the difference. I know that some lead bullets, if pushed to 'magnum' velocities or even fairly high 'sub-magnum' velocities are said to be pretty bad about leading the barrel.

I think the bullet style I'd most like to load (and maybe even cast, eventually - if possible) would be a 148 to 158 grain lead semi wadcutter hollow point. I'd like to have a bullet in that style that could be loaded across a spectrum ranging from 'lower end' .38 Special to .38 +P all the way up to full-house .357 Magnum, if possible.

As I am a long way from casting my own, yet, I am wondering if anyone can recommend a factory bullet in this style with which they have had good results. By 'good results', I mean decent plinking/'combat' accuracy across a range of velocities and barrel lengths without a lot of leading in the barrel. I would prefer pre-lubed bullets but it isn't necessarily a deal breaker if they aren't.

Failing recommendations for a good LSWCHP, perhaps someone could recommend a good non-hp LSWC or something in a Keith style or truncated cone type bullet weighing around 158 grains that would do well at up to .357 Magnum velocities.

Edited August 2, 2012 by JAB

[Caster]

It's almost impossible to "buy" a good cast bullet. I don't know why, but companies just don't seem to understand how to size things properly.

First two rules of cast bullets. 1> Fit is King. 2> Lube is queen.

My meaning. That bullet has got to make an absolute seal in the bore. IF you are shooting a .357 magnum, take one of the bullets you bought. Using a sharpie, number the chambers in the cylinder. Now gently drive one bullet through the cylinder. Squirt a little in in there first. You need to do it five more times, one to each throat in the cylinder. Measure carefully and look for the loosest throat, or the largest one. THat'll be the one that will lead on you if there's a lot of difference. The largest number you come up with, add .0015-.002 and that'll be the bullet size you need. Next slug the barrel the same way. You need to make sure the throats are not sizing the bullet down before they reach the bore. That doesn't mean it's a poorly built handgun wither. Ruger and S&W had several runs where this was a problem.

Back to what I was saying about fit; IT has to make a perfect seal or gas cutting will give you leading. People tend to think that the lube is just that, a lubricant. Not really. Sure it does to some degree but a bullet doesn't really need a lubricant. Jacketed bullets don't. THat bullet lube acts like an Oring seal. It takes up the slack where the bullet is not sealing by itself. It's lubricating properties, while important, are secondary.

The bullet has GOT to fit the gun. Manufacturing tolerances and variations is why manufacturers cannot get it right. WHy they insist on staying on the low side is beyond me. If you're shooting cast in a 30 caliber and using a .309 bullet, I doubt you will have much luck. I shoot .311 in all my .30 caliber guns. Here's what people can't get in their head. It's really not possible to shoot a cast bullet that's too big. IF ti will fit the throat of a given gun, it will fire. Many is the time that I have developed a load and never slugged the barrel. Slug the throat and see what size it is. Chambering a load to match all guarantees it'll be big enough.

I suck at typing this stuff out. If there's gaps in there, I'm sorry. I try to explain it every time someone asks, but I get started and then get impatient. Sorry. Ask away, I love to help people the silver light.

[Caster]

Ohh and as far as actually doing it, I have several 45 Colt loads I play with. 255g plain base Keith style bullet close to 1200fps. I have a 325gRNFP gas check I can get up to 1400 or so. My wrist doesn't approve of anything more. I don't have a leading problem. In fact, I only clean with patches to remove the soot and burnt lube, and then wipe it down with a clean oiled cloth. I never scrub the bore.

[Jonnin]

I think I am stupidly lucky with this. I have managed to cook up a 44 mag load that is full power and leaves no lead, using a bought bullet (165 grain 44 special slug, actually). It cycles the auto, anyway, so it is at least close to full power, though not "hot". I have yet to make anything leave significant leading behind in anything and I was expecting it in the 44 and 357. Not a lot of help... but all I can say is it is doable with bought bullets. I have even shot lead 380s out of my 357 (not a magnum loadout, a middling 38 special power load) without problems so to get the gas blowby to melt the lead takes some amount of either hot powder or a stouter load or something? I really did not expect that one to work and it did, so it either seals from the explosion or it isnt hot enough to cause the issue. All that to say... give it a try, see what happens. You may not have to do all that much to make it work, I have not yet had to do anything different from what I do with jacketed rounds apart from using the lead bullet powder charge table.

[JAB]

Thanks for the info, Caster. One of these days - no time soon as I've got to completely get the hang of the whole reloading thing, first - I want to start casting my own. I'm thinking your brain will get picked pretty heavily when that time comes. I wouldn't have thought to check the cylinder diameters.

I think I am stupidly lucky with this. I have managed to cook up a 44 mag load that is full power and leaves no lead, using a bought bullet (165 grain 44 special slug, actually).

Sooo, out with it, man - what 'bought bullets' have you used with good results, if you remember the brand, etc.

[Caster]

Here I go plugging David again.....but he sells a cast bullet in white heavy cardboard boxes. On a whim i tried some 158g bevel base semi wadcutters. Lubed with a blue lube and very well made, they shot better than I would have thought. I never went past 1000 FPS with them but they shot great and were sized appropriately for the SP101 I was shooting. I have since shot them all but I shot quite a few in 38 special too.

[Jonnin]

been using this in the .44

http://www.missourib...ry=12&keywords=

and these in 380/9mm/38/357

http://www.missourib...ry=27&keywords=

and have also used their 9mm, 30-30, 9x18, and some others.

I would just try these for your project:

http://www.missourib...ry=10&keywords=

which is a SWC 158 grain 357. I would almost bet that any mild powder would result in no leading without a bunch of extra caution an worry over it. I have not tried this specific one, however.

The only thing about this brand is they pick a hardness alloy that fits the caliber, supposedly. Maybe that is why the leading is not an issue. Also, the big draw factor for me here is the 9x18 + reasonable prices.

If you want to try the 380s or 44s I could give you a few to try.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Jonnin

[JAB]

Thanks, guys!

If you want to try the 380s or 44s I could give you a few to try.

Thanks for the offer - I just may have to take you up on that wrt the .44s. Except for those 300 grain XTP bullets I have, I'm mostly wanting to load .44 Special levels, anyhow.

[Jonnin]

It looks like the 19th may be good, need to get wife approval though, if so I will bring some slugs, loaded rounds, and the load data and all for you to do what you will.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I used to be a BIG fan of Missouri bullets but I would get leading in my 1911 using their bullets. I called and asked what I needed to do and they said I needed to push the bullet faster. Well I quit pushing them when the 200 grain bullets were nearing 1,100 fps. Well into the +P+ territory and I still had leading issues. I fixed the problem by using Lee Alox on the Missouri bullets. Leading is no longer a problem. I cast my own bullets now and have no leading issues. I think with the Missouri bullets they are undersized for cast lead. A l;ead bullet needs to be bigger than a jacketed bullet. My bullets are ~.453" and the Missouri bullets that lead are ~.451". Thos .002" make a huge difference in both leading and accuracy.

If you are getting leading at the chamber end of the barrel then the bullet is not sealing the way it should. If you are getting leading at the muzzle end you are pushing the bullets way too fast. Honestly I have never pushed a bullet fast enough to see leading at the muzzle.

Also, the lube Missouri uses is blue for a reason, looks and looks alone. Add Alox and the bullets work so much better. Their bullets are also harder than they probably need to be because no one wants to open a box of deformed bullets from shipping.

Dolomite

[dlm37015]

it is very hard to buy a cast bullet that works in our gun without a little tweeking