Obama has done it again

[dralarms]

Check this crap out.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=308&issue=047

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Doesn't look like anything new to me, except for the scary posters they put together.

[Guest Linoge]

Yeah - pretty much a long-winded recap of what they have already documented. This place: http://obamagun.blogspot.com/ is developing some pretty healthy source material too (pretty pictures make things so much easier to understand).

[Guest Boomhower]

Are these things that Obama has said, or just speculation scare tatics on the NRA's part??

[Guest Boomhower]

Sorry, guess I should have read the blog......WOW, might I add.

[Warbird]

Doesn't look like anything new to me, except for the scary posters they put together.

It sometimes takes posters and the like to get it through thick skulls. This is the most anti gun person ever nominated for national office by a major party. This isn't scare tactics, this is in your face reality. PERIOD!

That is what we are looking at as a governmental force if he wins. PERIOD!

I know in the months before the last election somewhere near 70% of the American people including some republicans obviously, thought John Kerry was pro-gun. Heck he even had pictures of himself in a brand new hunting suit going duck hunting.

Only after the NRA released and got the word out on his record did people wake up and see that his record on gun rights was abysmal. So I say to you that it may seem redundant, but different things reach different people and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. So the message is often and looks different, so hopefully everyone who values their freedoms will make a good choice. I sure hope they keep it up, and it will still be hard to get their point across.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Warbird

[strickj]

This isn't scare tactics, this is in your face reality. PERIOD!

That is what you are looking at as a governmental force if he wins. PERIOD!

.

.

How do you know? Because it says so

[Warbird]

DUH???? Gee I don't know, maybe because that is what he has said, that is what he supported as a state senator before the glare of the national spotlight and he tried to hide his thoughts on the subject.

Read. Read, I'm not going to do the work for you. If you care read some of the past articles on the facts of what he has said and done. OF course if you think its all lies and made up and that they aren't telling you the truth for some reason then fine, think what you want.

His record has been spelled out pretty clearly if you care to know it, of course if you want to listen to Barack and what his campaign and the media tell you he stands for then fine. Do whatever, I know the truth you can to, or just bury your head in the sand. Whatever!

[strickj]

Thought I would ask! It seems most just believe whats been told to them regardless of authenticity.They said big foot was real too,so should I believe that if it was on a cool poster?

Some of the things mentioned in that poster I personally have heard him say,but not all.So I'm asking you why are you saying all ten things will happen,period?Or have you actually watched ever interview of his to authenticate,or disapprove his tactics.

Sounds to me your just rebuffing

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

I'm not going to try to argue that Obama's anti status is overstated. I dunno if it can be overstated, truthfully.

But I do wonder why we as Americans continue to ascribe such nonexistant powers to the office of POTUS? The president has zero, yes, zero ability to pass laws. Sure, he can lean on Congress, but in the end that's all it is, leaning. We've already got Dem control in both houses, yet gun legislation doesn't seem to be moving. I think this is primarily due to gun control becoming a real political time bomb on the national level these day. Politicians haven't forgotten the big cleanup on Capitol Hill after the 94 AWB.

I don't want Obama to be the next resident of the White House, but I also don't believe that the world as we know it is going to end if he's elected. I know that we all feel strongly about this issue, but I really do think that we whip ourselves into a bit too much of a frenzy sometimes.

[Warbird]

Can I guarantee you that he would get all of those done, no. He would still have to get through congress.

Does he support all of those things yes. How do I know, because and let me say this very S L O W L Y, I have seen his record and his statements. You want to watch interviews, now after he has been grabbed by handlers telling him to shut up then you do so? If you lsiten to him he stands for nothing, but his record as a state senator and for years befor esay otherwise. I am not going to do the work for you, I am busy, too busy to type this bs actually, but I am none the less, but the info is out there to be had. Unfortunatley for you some of the sources for the info where they want to put out the truth you seem to not believe. Have fun with your head in the sand.

I know what I know and what you obviously don't know. The question is will you find out or will you simply say waaaaa no one is telling me the truth so I wont believe any of it waaaaa.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Warbird

[Warbird]

I'm not going to try to argue that Obama's anti status is overstated. I dunno if it can be overstated, truthfully.

But I do wonder why we as Americans continue to ascribe such nonexistant powers to the office of POTUS? The president has zero, yes, zero ability to pass laws. Sure, he can lean on Congress, but in the end that's all it is, leaning. We've already got Dem control in both houses, yet gun legislation doesn't seem to be moving. I think this is primarily due to gun control becoming a real political time bomb on the national level these day. Politicians haven't forgotten the big cleanup on Capitol Hill after the 94 AWB.

I don't want Obama to be the next resident of the White House, but I also don't believe that the world as we know it is going to end if he's elected. I know that we all feel strongly about this issue, but I really do think that we whip ourselves into a bit too much of a frenzy sometimes.

Anti gun bills aren't moving for 2 reasons, they aren't going to pass anti-gun bills during the election year, they made that mistake before. Anti-gun bills do little to mobilize their own base but do mobilize the pr gun base. Two the president wouldn't sign the bills. You have a anti gun pres and a truly motivated leftist congress leadership ready to fulfill some long made promises then you will get major movement on anti gun legislation.

It amazes me that people think ah he aint really so bad. Jeesh, open your eyes get you head outta yer butt I don't know, something. Will it all come to pass if he wins, who knows. I would hope the pro gun America would fight tooth and nail and mobilize to block it, but that is hard to know too. The question is do you want to take that chance. If so, fine. Do your worst.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Warbird

[strickj]

First my heads not in the sand.Second I dont like him anymore so then you.

However just because the NRA says so,doesn't make it true.

I just trying to figure out how you know the future so well.How you know his stance to make you say what you are.

All your saying is "its out there":rolleyes: There is all kinds of info out there.

If you read this http://www.bradycampaign.org/ would you believe it? They say its true so it must be!

Edited August 20, 2008 by strickj

[Warbird]

First my heads not in the sand.Second I dont like him anymore so then you.

However the just because the NRA says so,doesn't make it true.

I just trying to figure out how you know the future so well.How you know his stance to make you say what you are.

All your saying is "its out there":rolleyes: There is all kinds of info out there.

If you read this http://www.bradycampaign.org/ would you believe it? They say its true so it must be!

What is the feature? I dont understand, do you mean future? IF so, I dont know the future. I never said this would all come to pass. I said he has a record , I will not look up his record for you or his history, you choose to believe the sources you want and find the evidence to back it up for yourself I don't care. I am saying its true because I know it is true and I dont have time to spell out everyone of those things to you. I said if he was elected the reality is you'd be looking at a pres who believes in those things and will have a congress that believes many of those thing, or at least the majority party leaders do. They would do Obama's bidding. I cant say what would pass, but it sure as hell is scary enough that they would have that philosophy. Also an admin which is anti gun can make life absolutely unbearable with additional pres appointments who seek to shut down gun shops and the like. Anyone who says the pres is powerless to do anything policy wise is a person who understands nothing about the executive branch. The power over the admin appts system, the exec orders pen and what a pres deems important for those branches and more are very powerful avbilities, very.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Warbird

[strickj]

So he will see that 90 percent of gun shops will be shut down?

[fizik]

This and other reasons are why I'm getting every gun I see as potentially coming under scrutiny that I can. Most of those I want to buy from individuals, with a bill of sale at most - I don't want any part of some registry so they can snatch all my guns. They would get enough of them already when getting records of sales from FFLs - at this moment I have nine that they would like to take. I'd rather them not even know about the rest.

This **** is scary as anything I've seen in my life, I'm hoping no one on the Supreme court resigns or dies, because it's relatively balanced and reasonable now. If Obama got his picks in, plus his Attorney General, we'd be in for hell.

If this really goes bad, I would understand another Civil War, or at least Militias banding together - this is why we rebelled and broke from England over two hundred years ago, and look at us now, we're in worse shape than they were already, and no one cares.

Hopefully I'm being a bit extreme, but it's feasible. And I'll admit, I've been a civil libertarian since middle school, generally I'm conservative, at some times I support the liberals in society - but I've really lost any faith in them, and distrust the whole of American government.

Now I'll be on some watch list as some uber-radical anti government type...Yay PATRIOT act!!

[Guest bang-flash]

If this really goes bad, I would understand another Civil War, or at least Militias banding together

your statement reminds me of a book I recently read called "Enemies foreign and domestic" by m. bracken i believe.

[Warbird]

So he will see that 90 percent of gun shops will be shut down?

He supported a state bill which he said should be federal that would outlaw any gun shop within 5 miles of a school. About 90% of the gun shops in America are within 5 miles of a school. Again he won't say these things, but his actions speak louder than his words. I'm done with this someone else can take over. Obviously you are not capable of seeing the far off implications of what he has voted for and said in the past as relates to the future. There are examples for every one of those points and the details have been pointed to before.

Obama gets elected he will institute all sorts of new regs onto ATF and place key appointments who can give gun shops total hell to the point they want to just shut down before they go mad. He can force shops to close w/o ever going to congress. If you don't think it will happen you should see the numbers on the shops that closed under Clinton for the same reason. So roll your eyes and make your quips, you are above taking info from any source that is trying to protect your rights even if it's specific examples, but you'll take it from a candidate, LMAO.

[Warbird]

This and other reasons are why I'm getting every gun I see as potentially coming under scrutiny that I can. Most of those I want to buy from individuals, with a bill of sale at most - I don't want any part of some registry so they can snatch all my guns. They would get enough of them already when getting records of sales from FFLs - at this moment I have nine that they would like to take. I'd rather them not even know about the rest.

This **** is scary as anything I've seen in my life, I'm hoping no one on the Supreme court resigns or dies, because it's relatively balanced and reasonable now. If Obama got his picks in, plus his Attorney General, we'd be in for hell.

If this really goes bad, I would understand another Civil War, or at least Militias banding together - this is why we rebelled and broke from England over two hundred years ago, and look at us now, we're in worse shape than they were already, and no one cares.

Hopefully I'm being a bit extreme, but it's feasible. And I'll admit, I've been a civil libertarian since middle school, generally I'm conservative, at some times I support the liberals in society - but I've really lost any faith in them, and distrust the whole of American government.

Now I'll be on some watch list as some uber-radical anti government type...Yay PATRIOT act!!

As I have said I am concerned about my rights as a gun owner and believer in the 2nd amendment. I am concerned of what Obama, Reid and Pelosi will pass in the way of restrictions. In the senate they will be close to the 57 or 58 dem votes they need to be at to overcome a filibuster, they can prob count on all or all but one dem to go along lockstep.

They will hit it on off election years and we will just see. I am not ready to start panicking the moment they come in, but we should be prepared to let them know if they pass this stuff, political prices may be paid. As in 94 it could be their demise, remains to be seen. We could see them go after all of their agenda or some of it, but it's all on the table and a possible threat to our freedoms. Some other things are also on the table, like finding a way to shut down or seriously curtail gun shows. They have a large agenda, they don't care that the vast majority of Americans are on our side on this issue.

In the past (Clinton) gun rights proponents and groups and their members were labeled with the help of the media. We can't allow another administration to do that to us.

[Guest canynracer]

He supported a state bill which he said should be federal that would outlaw any gun shop within 5 miles of a school. About 90% of the gun shops in America are within 5 miles of a school. Again he won't say these things, but his actions speak louder than his words. I'm done with this someone else can take over. Obviously you are not capable of seeing the far off implications of what he has voted for and said in the past as relates to the future. There are examples for every one of those points and the details have been pointed to before.

Obama gets elected he will institute all sorts of new regs onto ATF and place key appointments who can give gun shops total hell to the point they want to just shut down before they go mad. He can force shops to close w/o ever going to congress. If you don't think it will happen you should see the numbers on the shops that closed under Clinton for the same reason. So roll your eyes and make your quips, you are above taking info from any source that is trying to protect your rights even if it's specific examples, but you'll take it from a candidate, LMAO.

Wow, you should a little, your gonna have a heart attack. Just because someone asks questions about a source doesnt mean you have to get so defensive. Not everyone studies this stuff at nausium.

I dont think anyone here is taking the word of either the politicians, OR the NRA. lets not make it seem like the NRA is perfect with their accusations. They are important, and they do protect our rights, but they are still political group that exaggerates things, just like the Brady folks.

[G27]

But I do wonder why we as Americans continue to ascribe such nonexistant powers to the office of POTUS? The president has zero, yes, zero ability to pass laws. Sure, he can lean on Congress, but in the end that's all it is, leaning. We've already got Dem control in both houses, yet gun legislation doesn't seem to be moving. I think this is primarily due to gun control becoming a real political time bomb on the national level these day. Politicians haven't forgotten the big cleanup on Capitol Hill after the 94 AWB.

I don't want Obama to be the next resident of the White House, but I also don't believe that the world as we know it is going to end if he's elected. I know that we all feel strongly about this issue, but I really do think that we whip ourselves into a bit too much of a frenzy sometimes.

I agree that much of it is overstated, and while I think Obama has a very good chance of winning (due in large part to the 'pubs inability to front a decent candidate), I also think the Dems will likely loose some seats in congress due the abysmally low rating congress has 'enjoyed' since the Dems took over a few years ago.

That being said, don't underestimate what the president can do nowadays - precedent has been set (starting in the late 18th century, no less) with Executive Orders. Obama's view of the constitution seems to be quite skewed - combine that with modern America's general ignorance regarding constitutional government and we have a potential recipe for disaster.

I don't think things will go south right away, and quite honestly I believe he has potential to be a decent leader, but some of his ideas of 'change' make me nervous.

[strickj]

Warbird; I trying to figure out whether or not what you are saying about the ad has fact behind it or if its just your opinion.

At this point Ill just call it your opinion considering you spent nearly an hour last night saying you dont have the time to post facts not including the time you spent on it this morning.

If you had posted one reference to back up that 90% of shops would be closed,or one reference backing up claims of the banning of all handgun sales/transfers I would have dropped it.There are ten things on that ad,you provided nothing to back up any of it.

[G27]

f you had posted one reference to back up that 90% of shops would be closed,

http://volokh.com/posts/1203747566.shtml

While I'm too lazy and disinterested to actually go find the original quotation, it's all over the place. Think of all the gun shops you know and go check them out google maps, then look for schools or parks within 5 miles of that shop.

90% is an estimation, but based on what I've seen, it looks to be pretty close.

[Guest Boomhower]

Warbird '08.....3rd party maybe?

Stick....why can't you just understand that the internet is the only hope and truth that we still have left for a change?

[Mike.357]

strick now you don't really think the NRA is a propoganda machine of thelike of Brady do you?

If NRA is saying something I am betting it is true