vujade

i was hoping to go today but something came up. Can someone give a report on how was the show?    I reckon it was busy as heck?

I'll be there and would like to bring my dad.    thank you Chip!

It's the same 25 yards.  Same batch of ammo.  More than half the size in groups!  (that's 5 shoots there, it's hard to see the 5th hole but it's essentially went into the same hole on the bottom).   The other groups were still 3-4 inches but 4.3 grains of bullsey seem to get it right on.   Here is the rest of the story:   That little dot target was blurry as heck!  and I had this HUGE headache by the time I was shooting the 3rd group.   I just concentrated and still managed to pull this one off.  When I got home I realized that I put my contacts in wrong!  (left to right and right to left).  I'm going to go back to the range with the same 4.3 loaded ammo But this time with good eyes and then I'll see what it can really do!   I'm a happy camper!

new barrel = good groups: :pleased: (1.74 inches, 5 shots @ 25 yards)

I got some brass that the primers just wouldn't go in.  I was always afraid it I was putting too much pressure.  I looked closely and there was a little ledge or 'lip' in the primer pocket.  I just used my chamfer/deburring tool and used it on the primer pocket.  A few turns and it cleaned it up nicely.    It was still tight but it went in much more easily.  I'm reloading that batch now the 2nd time and it's just like the other brass; just the right amount of pressure needed.  perfect.

It'll affect accuracy; but I'm not sure to that degree.  My experience was with shooting my Savage 10fp in 308.  My groups were around half an inch or better (100 yards); I had on a Nikon with a really good parallax setting that was dead one (50 yards, 100 yards, etc.).  I changed scopes and it opened up to about .5 to .75 inches.  I then learned about parallax and after i set it properly, groups went back down (and better).   Bench the gun, move your head up and down and left and right and forward and back looking through the scope without touching the rifle.  If the crosshairs move, that's the parallax.  Adjust it until it doesn't move anymore.  My mistake was that I was following what the knobs said; it had zero correlation to the actual setting.  I also had the rings too close to the middle part of the scope (where the knobs are and that affected it the parallax setting).   The deviation you get as you move your head around is (I think) what you would expect in a different point of impact when you finally pull the trigger.  No movement as you move your head around would mean the same point of impact even if you don't put your check down at the exact same place on the stock for the next shot.

[quote name='Garufa' timestamp='1355179526' post='858096'] For the time being just put it in ammo cans with good seals and some dessicant packs for extra moisture protection. Rust needs moisture to grow. How much ammo are you talking about anyway? [/quote] thanks for the info. once it's a little cleaner, I'll store it safe and shoot them sooner.

Once this is dry and in a good place, i assume that slows down/stops the rusting process? How long do you think this ammo will last until the rust eats all the way to the other side?

[quote name='1gewehr' timestamp='1355151532' post='857769'] Totally false. There have been cases where live ammo was tumbled for a week or longer with no degradation of the powder or impacted primers. But in this case, the problem is that it is STEEL cased ammo. Brass cases will discolor, which usually causes no problems. Steel rusts, and the rust can cause the case to lose a lot of strength. If the case blows out, it can cause damage to the firearm and be dangerous. I would personally not fire rusted ammo. [/quote] Thank you for the info. As I transfer these, I'm going to find the worst ones and clean them up. If the rust is too deep, I may trash them. So far, I'm able to sand a few down and remove most of the rust and the steel is still in tact (doesn't go all the way through).

I wonder if they are all coming from the same flood plane - these are wolf too. I don't have a wire wheel and that sounds like a lot of work for AK ammo. I started to clean a few with either sandpaper or steel wool and it was just too much work (i stopped after about 10). I think i'll just wipe them down in batches with a rag with a little bit of gun oil. This will hopefully just get them a little cleaner and without all that red dust particles. I'll store them in some ammo cans and find more reasons to go out and shoot my AK.

here is a sample of the stuff: [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/n3njpk.jpg[/IMG] some are pretty bad, some are pretty clean. I plan to go through them tonight and separate the best from the worst.

anyone try rubbing baking soda and then rinsing and drying it really quick? and i figure just a wipe each down with an old rag with a hint of gun oil. I don't shoot the AK that much. I figure this will preserve it better for a few years and stop the spread. I can do the above in pretty big batches before storing them in ammo cans with desiccant. (i came upon some really cheap AK ammo that I couldn't pass up)

yep. went through about 80 rounds today. All fired and landed where the front sight pointed. I'm curious though, if I wanted to clean it up a bit and prevent FURTHER rusting - what have folks done? someone at the range suggested putting it through a tumbler but I'm not sure I want to do that with live ammo. Is there danger in that? If it's handling each round with steel wool, i'm not doing it. =) does rust spread/move pretty quickly?

Thanks, with that...I'm headed to the range in an hour. I'll report back!

i guess I'm also wondering if the rust gets on the barrel, will that be bad? Is that an abrasive that can scratch the bore?

I came across some wolf steel cased 7.62x39. It's ugly, dirty and rusty. not of the cases split, rust is only on one side and sometimes the bullet also. The primers are in good shape. I assume the inside's are good; Russian ammo have that red sealant in the bullet and primer areas. Is this safe to fire? Saiga 7.62x39 is the rifle. How would it affect accuracy? Any ideas on how to clean it (when I'm bored)? Someone mentioned spraying WD40 on it and rubbing them around..

update: (from the customer service agent; I asked if he can follow up the gun) [i]It appears they have fit a new barrel to this 1911[/i] [i]The gun should be on its way back to you on Monday[/i] [i]Michael[/i]

At least on my AK (Saiga in 308), it beat up the case pretty bad too. Ionly reloaded about 20 to test out, it wasn't worth the effort so I just went back to cheap russian ammo. At least in my experiences, there wasn't a very big accuracy gain anyway.

it depends... I'm good with the cheap russian stuff since my AK isn't exactly a precision weapon. It's accurate enough to break clay targets easily at 50 and 100 yards but it's no bolt action rifle. Your DPMS 308 is probably more capable of better groups but you'll only get there with good ammo. (We have a truck in the family, we feed it cheap gas and it runs. We also have a German car that will show weakness when you feed it cheap gas. My AK is a truck, yours is a BMW. But it'll only perform such with the good stuff). Some alternatives? i find the PPU (Prvi Partisan at $12 for 20 pretty decent. You can keep the brass and reload later). I have not tried it personally but I hear the lake city stuff is good too. My choice would be to reload. i've got it down to about 33 cents a round and this is match grade, put them all in '1 hole at 100 yards' grade ammo. But for my AK. i still feed it the cheap russian stuff (I didn't see a big change in accuracy and the AK violent case extraction really hurts the brass)

No issues with running wolf 308 ammo but I'm using a Saiga. The semi auto action would rip it out almost as soon as it's fired. My dad tried it a few times to go cheap and got some stuck cases (on his bolt action savage). The issue was when he would fire brass cases AFTERWARDS. The brass cases would get stuck. I believe the issue is Russian ammo has this lacquer type coating on the rounds. It gets left behind after firing and when you stick a brass cased round in there and fire, the brass expands more than the steel and the lacquer essentially 'seals' it in. It is dirty too but what do you expect with cheap Russian ammo. It's not bad for plinking. I'd get about 4-5 inch groups at 100 yards.

S&W replied back. This is their test/minimum standards: [i]We run one magazine through the gun at 25 yards groups within three inches[/i] [i]Ammo[/i] [i]Federal 230 Grain Hydra-Shok[/i] [i]Michael[/i] By this measurement, their test target didn't even meet the standard since they shoot at only 15 yards and the group size was 1.86 inches; that's over 3 inches at 25 yards.

[quote name='TGO David' timestamp='1353363082' post='848404'] I'm not the [i]best[/i] shot in the world but I think you're flinching. Even if that gun's tolerances are at the outside of factory spec and it's so loose it rattles, your grouping should not be that wild. The only explanation I would accept for that being the firearm is if the sights are not only loose but each one mounted on a Slinky. Sorry. You're welcome to let me shoot it at the range sometime. Like I said, I'm not the best shot but even the worst 1911 I've ever fired had me grouping them a lot tighter than that. [/quote] hi David. Thanks for the reply. Yep, you can see why i'm utterly frustrated. I saved my lunch money to get the best that i could afford and I'm surprised the grouping is more like a shotgun pattern. I shoot my s&w 686 with far more recoil and I can group them in 3-4 inches easily. My best being 2.5 inches. This is with the cheapest factory ammo. This is benched of course. I'm not the best pistol shoot but you're right, some of those flyers I KNOW I pulled that trigger with the front sight post right on PIA. I've also had another person at the range shoot it and it failed for him too. By the way, gun is pretty tight. It doesn't rattle. and I've looked under the sights at least 4 times for that slinky. Yeah! I'd love if you can give it a try next we're both at the range (I frequent Charlie's range in Spring Hill).

Update and a range report: I made loaded rounds of the following variety: 200 grain Lead SWC from MBC + different Bullseye loads from 4.1 to 5.4 I had about (50) rounds of 230 grain FMJ + 5.5 of Unique Some factory rounds (Federal 230 grains) 230 grain Lead RN from MBC + bullseye loads from 4.1 to 4.7 I shot unsupported at 13 yards using the 5.5 grains of unique + 230 grain FMJ (same load as before, 5.5 seemed to be the most 'accurate ones' with 5 inches at 25 yards. At 13 yards, it was about 2-3 inches which told me as S&W wrote on their letter, nothing was changed. I fired some factory rounds and it was the same. I then shot a few rounds of the 4.1 Bullseye + 200 grain LSWC and the group was the smallest. I don't have a pic but about 2 inches at 13 yards. With the me and the gun warmed up, I proceeded to shoot the following groups at 25 yards: This is benched (most were 5 shoot groups (1 was 6). When I say 'benched', i was resting both elbows on the bench, sitting down. [img]http://i50.tinypic.com/2afd54n.jpg[/img] [img]http://i47.tinypic.com/mjygxu.jpg[/img] The 4.1 grains of Bullseye + 200 grain LSWC looks promising. I shot the rest of the misc rounds I loaded (the 230 grain Round Nose seems less accurate than the 200 grain SWC). I'm going to make some rounds with 3.7, 3.9 and 4.1 and see how they do. I front sight was moving a bit which may explain some of the groups' size. I'm not a great pistol shot but the 2 and a half incher gives me some hope/promise (the last target on the bottom right).

[quote name='Jonnin' timestamp='1352985798' post='846005'] sounds reasonable for a tester just shooting it with iron sights and holding it. I was going to say that a 3 inch hole is a lot of rounds, and I doubt they empty a full box per pistol. Dumb question, but was the revolver shooting single action/cocked when you did it? [/quote] silver action/cocked and benched. I'm not that good of a shoot but for now, I've just want to know what the gun is capable off removing shooter error variation.

As an update, I've been chatting with Dolomite and Caster (awesome awesome bunch of guys). With their help,I ended up slugging the barrel last night. My bore measures to .452. If FMJs I'm shooting are .451, that would explain the accuracy issues. it's strange thought that the bore is clean with strong rifling; i don't think it's been shoot much considering the condition of the gun. I've emailed S&W and asked what their 'in spec' bores should be. They replied: .442 to .443. I'm asking for a new barrel. I'll see what happens.