The Rabbi

IDPA rules (unless they've changed recently) allow you to shoot one match without joining the national org (dues about $35/yr). At Brush Creek they let you shoot twice. FWIW,I've never seen anyone asked to leave because they werent IDPA members. But if you join you do have to promise not to practice shooting anymore:D

The big bore world sure has changed. It is probably the part of the revo universe that has undergone the most change. FOr starters you have many more calibers. 454 Casul, 480 Ruger, 500 Linebaugh, 445 Supermag (a caliber and gun I would dearly love to have), 500 Magnum, and 460VXR. Then the packages have changed, from 2" 500 Mags (from Taurus--Im not making this up) to 4" Super Redhawks, to 2.5" Alaskas all the way to 10 and 12 inch barrels. Materials have improved and I think overall workmanship is still pretty good.

Thanks, DKD. My point is not that Jews are persecuted. My point was in reaction to the claim that there is an equality to the relationship where "Jews killed their fair share of Christians." It simply isnt true. And the person posting it is lacking in honesty by not aknowledging this fact, preferring to obfuscate and dither. As to texts: what do you mean by "reliable"? Do you mean the integrity of the texts themselves as accurate reflections of what their author originally wrote? Or do you mean the historical veracity of what the author actually wrote? If the first, the texts we have largely are OK, although enough variants exist in the Christian Bible to make one wonder if there werent many different versions. Jews solved the problem earlier on by burning the variants, although there is still some evidence of variation. If you mean the second, that the authors wrote historically accurate things, I would suggest you are joking. This is especially so in a polemical text like much of the Christian bible. It is no more accurate in that regard than Plutarch's Lives of the Philosophers is an accurate telling, or Cicero's characterization of his opponents.

He can almost buy 2 M&Ps for the price of an EMP. I had an M&P compact through the shop. Nice gun. Not a SIG P239 but nice just the same.

Unless your life is under threat of course.

It is about the systematic persecution and occasional massacres by one religious group (Christians) against another group (Jews) over 2,000 years, with no comparable actions the other direction. The claim was made for equivalence. There is no equivalence, unless MolonLabeTN wants to count the Christian children killed so we can make matzos for Passover. And he can cite even more sources for that than he can for Jews killing Christians. Islam is a very tolerant religion. Under the Ottomans there was a variety of religious groups (Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, etc) flourishing with something akin to rights. Ditto under the Moors in Spain. There was no such comparable thing in Christian Europe, and frequent witchhunts for Christian heretics of various stripes. The situation today is atypical of Islam's history, exacerbated by Saudi oil wealth, the end of the Cold War, and a host of other factors. The rise of Wahhabi Islam and the unfortunate fact that it is the dominant strain among the rich Saudis makes for the current situation far more than anything inherent in the Koran. People may want to take a look this book for more info. athttp://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ReligionTheology/Islam/~~/dmlldz11c2EmY2k9OTc4MDE5NTEzNTgwMA==

Dither, obfuscate, dither, obfuscate. It would be easier, and I would have lots more respect, if you just admitted mispeaking. Citing one ancient, unreliable source is not "Jews have killed their fair share of Christians." No one is making a "death toll contest." I am establishing that there is nothing remotely comparable.

It is undeniable to someone familiar with the procedures of the Sanhedrin that the one presented in the Christian Bible is at all factual.

I wasn't arguing the purpose or calling of a Christian, things I have little knowledge of. I was arguing the definition of a Christian, which to my knowledge is minimally one who accepts Jesus as his personal savior. You are trying to weasle out of your statement: I challenged you on this one and you have dithered and obfuscated. And there is a fundamental difference between a Boruch Goldstein, murdering Muslims in their mosque, and an Inquisition or Crusade or 100 Years' War, or any of the other many systematic persecutions that have happened in the name of the Prince of Peace. Similarly there is a fundamental difference between the 9/11 hijackers and the full corpus of Islamic belief and theology.

That is no proof whatsoever, not that there were any killings nor that they were on any scale remotely similar to what Christians did. "Purge" probably means to exclude them from Jewish communities, and this was a big issue in those days. Historically Muslims and Jews generally had better relations, and generally tend to view religion in similar ways. The current situation has lots of causes but religion is not generally among them.

It is arguable whether Jesus was a Christian in any sense that the word is understood. It is undeniable that the account of the Sanhedrin presented in the Christian bible is entirely made up. No one is arguing which group is most persecuted. That does mean one can blithely make equivalence between Christian persecution of Jews and Jewish persecution of Christians, as you did.

And why is it called "Castle Doctrine"??

The Inquisition was directed at Jews primarily and Muslims secondarily. But if you think the Catholic Church has a lock on the anti-semitic market, may I direct your attention to the good Christian Martin Luther: As for Jewish-Muslim relations, until the coming of the Zionists relations were excellent (where did the Jews expelled from Spain in 1492 go?). I have a book written by a Turkish rabbi in the 18th century where he mentions specifically how much better life is under the sons of Ishmael than under the sons of Esau. The proof is that you find much longer chains of continuous settlement of Jewish communities under Moslem countries than under Christian countries. I am not Christian-bashing here. In our times things have changed and the conflict is between religious people and non-religious people (the Islamic terrorists are an aberration, both in Islam and historically). But pretending that the history of Christianity isnt filled with oppression and violence is simply pretending.

I take exception to that. Please provide any, any, evidence of killings by Jews against Christians on anything like the same scale as Christians have against Jews. You wont. As for the "first one" I believe Paul/Saul was killed by the Romans in Rome.

You are being disinegenous. The original question had to do with an LEO seizing your weapon on the street. That is completely different from an LEO showing up at your house to seize your weapon. Reasonable and justifiable responses have already been pretty well outlined: if no danger to life, then compliance followed by court action. If danger to life, then whatever is necessary.

So Catholics aren't Christians? News to me. But I could add the good Protestant Christians in Northern Ireland and their warm relations with their fellow good Catholics there. As for the Crusades, I'd suggest some homework is in order:

The Crusaders, good Christians all, raped, burned and pillaged on their way to the crusades. The Spanish Inquisition was perpetrated by good Christians. Many good Christians participated in the holocaust. And Lebanese good Christians wracked up quite a reputation dealing with their Moslem neighbors, as did the good Christian Serbs dealing with their Moslem neighbors. But judging Christianity by the actions of those mentioned above is no more fair than judging Islam, a 1500 year old religion that is world wide, by the actions of the crazies you hear about.

I dont understand the further purpose of this thread. Molon, what are your proposing, that people should resist LEOs anywhere? And your example of police showing up at the door is NOT what has been discussed, but a completely different situation that takes place under completely different legal circumstances. As I said, if no one is imminent danger then you do what the cop wants and hash it out in court later. The literature on resisting is what you look at AFTER the incident. (And fwiw, I think people ought to be informed about their rights in regard to interactions with authorities. E.g. no LEO has the right to ask you for ID on the street just because.)

One of my customers turned me on to them. They look like little inexpensive kits for people who will shoot 20-30 rounds out of a bolt rifle in a week or so. That is a lot of people. Some of my hunting customers tell me they might shoot 10 rounds out of one of their hunting rifles a season. And if you're talking about a .458Lott or something exotic that can be a lot of money.

I dont shoot .308 (yet). I have reloaded for .45acp and .44mag. I am considering getting some of Lee's little reloading kits for the 308 for my shop.

And if anyone finds some cheap mil surp 5.56 and cheap .308 let me know....

The only reasonable case I could see was an entrance under a no-knock warrant where the entrance was mistaken (i.e. the cops screwed up and got the address wrong). If an officer is killed while the homeowner resists essentially a home invasion, too bad. BUt I wouldnt want to be sitting there trying to decide whether the arrest was valid or not after I had pulled my gun. If it can wait for a judge to decide, then it can wait.

Write up your business plan and start marketing it. If its a great idea then you wont have any problem raising the money. But you'll need more than $1M since we agreed that the build out on the range itself will cost about 1M.

Sounds like a plan. Go for it, big guy.

Len you're forgetting the free gun giveaways and free ammo Tuesdays. There's a reason you dont see places like that. The gun business is a low-margin business. It is also expensive in many ways. The guns themselves are costly. To be a Kimber dealer (and thats the only way to sell them new) you have to buy like 8 on the front end at about $6-700 apiece. Same with SIG. You might sit on those guns for 6 months to a year and you might make $50-100 on each one. In the meantime, the city of Nashville has forbidden new ranges in the Urban Services District. Additionally a new range would cost close to $1M to construct. Then there is liability insurance. Knowledgeable people don't come cheap and there is huge liability for the owner if he hires someone who screws up and violates the regs. That liability can of course include jail time. Do the math: it would take about $10k a month to run something like that, and with margins in the 15-20% range thats a lot of sales to be made. So in all it would take an enormous commitment of time, money, energy, and legal challenges to make something like that. And customers arent willing to pay for it all. They would rather save .75cents buying their ammo at Wal Mart, buy their holsters and mags off the internet, and shop for stuff on GunBroker. And while there isnt anything especially wrong with that, at the same time complaining about local shops sounds like wanting cadillac quality at yugo prices.