Fallguy

I too am not sure how far down the food chain of employees "place of business" applies to, but in Rayburn's case I think it for sure would apply. The reason for the exception in 39-17-1305 before is because without it, it would have been illegal for even the owner to have been armed in there.

39-17-1308(a)(3)( still applies which is a defense to 39-17-1307 for a business owner....regardless of what the business is.

Well actually prior to July 1, 2000 39-17-1359 did say the prohibition had to posted or announced. What announced meant was never really defined. In fact that is one of the reasons I used to not carry regularly...never knew if some place had announced at a prior time and if so if it still applied. It was changed by SB0908 (Click here to see the summary and the old law where used to say announced) Which became Public Chapter 929 Also the main reason I try to keep up the laws so closely know.

I will admit in larger cities, especially Knoxville it seems...there are more legally posted places. Just another reason for me to stay in the sticks I reckon....

New database Carry Prohibited Locations - Tennessee Gun Owners New law http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/106/pub/pc1009.pdf (Section 3 has the new 39-17-1359)

Yep

This was posted somewhere a while back and I saved it.. Should Christians Keep and Bear Arms A Christian Viewpoint Dr. Marshall C. St. John The Constitution of the United States of American contains this sentence: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.†Our Constitution is not part of the Bible, however it is based on Biblical principles. For example, the Constitution speaks of the necessity of a militia for the security of a free nation. “Militia†does not mean a professional army. It means the citizens of the nation bearing arms. It is the teaching of the Bible that citizens MAY, and often MUST bear arms for the defense of the nation. For example: 7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. 8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword. 9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you. (Leviticus 26:7-9) In order for God's people to accomplish the will of God, it may sometimes be necessary for them to bear arms and literally fight. King David wrote in Psalm 18:34-39... “He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms...I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed. I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet. For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle...†LESSONS FROM NEHEMIAH When Nehemiah was rebuilding the wall around Jerusalem, it was necessary for him and the other men to go armed for self-defense. Nehemiah 4:16-18 “And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my servants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons; and the rulers were behind all the house of Judah. They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon. For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me.†Many of the heros of the Bible were men at arms: Joshua, Gideon, Samson, etc. lessons from God’s Law The first five books of the Bible are sometimes called the “Torah,†which means “The Law.†In these books we find the Ten Commandments, and many other laws God gave to His people to order their lives. In Exodus 22:2-3 we read: “If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.†In other words, homeowners are allowed by God’s Law to defend themselves against burglars who break in at night. lessons from Jesus In Luke 22:36 Jesus commanded His disciples to be armed for self-defense. “Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.†Jesus commanded his disciples to buy swords, if they had none. They said they already had two, and Jesus said that would be enough. As a band of a dozen able-bodied men, they were quite safe from roving bandits, even if every man in the group was not carrying a weapon. The application is that Jesus commands us to be armed for self-defense, but He does not recommend that we go overboard with our weapons. Jesus said in another place, “He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword.†Jesus encourages his followers to defend themselves, but He does not encourage us to be eager for battle and bloodshed. Self-defense may be necessary as a last resort, but violence should not be sought after and relished. God’s people are supposed to be peacemakers, not ruffians. Neither are we allowed to spread the Gospel by means of violence or military aggression. LESSONS FROM PAUL “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.†I Timothy 5:8 We must provide food and shelter for our families. It is also our duty to provide protection from criminals. The most effective way to do this is to move your family to a safe neighborhood. Also, we should make sure our communities have effective law enforcement officers. But what would you do if a criminal broke into your home? Are you prepared to defend your family? We pray for God to provide for us; but that does not excuse us from earning money, buying food and building houses. We pray for God to defend us from criminals, but that does not excuse us from taking steps to protect our families. Preserving Your Right to Keep and Bear Arms The importance of preserving your right to keep and bear arms is illustrated in I Samuel 13:19-22. “Now there was no smith found throughout all the land of Israel: for the Philistines said, Lest the Hebrews make them swords or spears: But all the Israelites went down to the Philistines, to sharpen every man his share, and his coulter, and his ax, and his mattock. Yet they had a file for the mattocks, and for the coulters, and for the forks, and for the axes, and to sharpen the goads. So it came to pass in the day of battle, that there was neither sword nor spear found in the hand of any of the people that were with Saul and Jonathan: but with Saul and with Jonathan his son was there found.†The Philistines conquered and dis-armed the Israelites. They even took away the means of weapons production, in order to enslave them. In order to revolt, the few Israelites who had weapons attacked some Philistines and took their weapons. This process continued until many Israelites had arms. In modern times, It is impossible to overthrow tyrants and have a free society unless the citizens have firearms, and know how to use them. RIGHTS COME FROM GOD It is vital for every Christian to realize that all our rights actually come from God. The government never gives you rights, but only recognizes rights you already have, or tries to take your rights away from you, to increase its power. It is clearly obvious that as government grows larger, our liberties are gradually being taken away. The second Amendment of the Constitution, the second right enumerated in the Bill of Rights, is the right to “keep and bear arms.†As we have seen from the scriptures quoted above, this right is rooted in the Bible, because the right to self-defense, and the obligation to protect the weak, is rooted in the Bible. An Objection Answered Someone may ask: “But what about turning the other cheek and not resisting evil? Aren’t Christians supposed to act like that? Aren’t we supposed to be pacifists?†The answer is simple: In those verses Jesus was telling Christians how to react to minor insults: a slap on the cheek, the loss of a coat, and so on. He was not addressing the Christian’s response to criminal activity or a tyrannical government. He did that when He said, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.†and “Love your neighbor as yourself.†If we love our neighbors, we will take steps to keep them safe from criminals. That may mean that we will personally need to use weapons to help our neighbors. It also means that we will support our local police in the apprehension of criminals. It also means that we will do whatever we can to make our government one that honors individual rights and liberties. Instead of taking vengeance on criminals personally, we will call on the police to find and arrest them, and bring them to justice. But when criminals attack us or our neighbors, and the police are not present, we will do what it takes, not just for our own sake, but for the Christian love we have for our families and communities. To dis-arm and to allow criminals to attack us and our neighbors unopposed is to be negligent about our Christian duty. Presbyterians thought this out a long time ago. In our official doctrinal statement, the Westminster Larger Catechism, Answer # 135 we read: “The duties required in the sixth commandment†include “just defense against violence.†Self-defense, and that involves keeping and bearing arms, is not only your privilege as an American Christian, it is your duty. Wayside Presbyterian Church 2502 Fairmount Pike Signal Mountain, TN 37377 www.waysidechurch.org __________________ Dr. M. St. John www.waysidechurch.org

Why in the world would a police presence change anything? AFAIK there is no law that makes it illegal to carry where LEOs are when it is otherwise legal.

I agree in most cases State level LEOs seem to know more about these things than locals. When I travel I always go to Handgunlaw.us to check the laws of the state I am going to. There are links to each state's website on the pages there.

No, I understood what you meant. I think Dave did as well. Not disagreeing with you....just pointing out the discrepancy in the law as it is. I too don't think you should have to have a permit period to carry. But in the mean time I too agree that your car should be like your house in that you don't need a permit to carry either. Also as you said...simply allowing possession in your car without a permit may take care of the parking lot bill, school property etc.... I say may because we've all seen wild and strange things done on capitol hill in Nashville...lol

As Dave pointed out the use of force and where you can legally posses weapons, while related, aren't the same. That being said...I did find it a bit odd, that the legislature included inside your car as a place where it will be presumed that you were in fear of imminent death or serious bodily harm if you use deadly force, but does not allow the possession of weapons in your car as in your home.

Firearms Law FAQ - Tennessee Gun Owners http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/firearms-law-faq/13408-reference-material-some-basic-questions.html

Actually...I don't think it will....lol I guess just about all that can be said, has been said.... Move along...move along...

Good point.... I too am one that I want to know the situation before I was to use deadly force. However if the agressor is a undercover LEO or otherwise normally good guy, they should not be beating the person to the point of near death.

Now that's funny right there...

PM sent

Good question.... I'm probably one of the armchair generals you mentioned but..... IMO If a civil suit is filed...the ruling of justifiable self-defense would have to be made in the civil court for the immunity to apply let alone whether or not criminal charges were filed or if there was a ruling of self-defense in that court. However if criminal charges are not filed or are and it ruled self-defense I think that would help in a civil case. Hopefully it would help to prevent any half-decent lawyer from pursuing a civil case in the first place.

Yes, I disagree with your opinion, which I hope hasn't bent you out of shape. But I moved your post and created a new thread so as the discussion that is occruing would not be done in the thread where your post was first made and cause a buch of off-topic post in that thread. I didn't create the post or your opinoin, I just moved it out of one thread and into it's own.

See the post above yours.....

It is legal. There really isn't anything to show that it is....just that there is no law against it. See http://www.michie.com/tennessee

Correctionally facilties are usually not listed in the places off-limits for carry, but guess they should be it. The law is just in another part of T.C.A. http://www.michie.com/tennessee

Please do not engage in personal attacks or name calling. Warning given...

Not sure about SC, but in TN campus police are sometimes fully POST certified officers and technically have jurisdiction off-campus, so seeing them in adjacent area really wouldn't mean much and definetly wouldn't mean you were on campus just because. As long as I knew I was legal, I would carry. If you are unconfortable and/or unsure I wouldn't.

If someone chooses not to let it affect their business decision...then by all means that is their choice. I just don't think anyone on here should be surprised if someone else points out a business is owned by someone who is anti, let alone someone who actively lobbied against pro-carry legislation, who filed a lawsuit against a pro-carry law and especially someone that is Randy Rayburn.

So what was your problem with someone pointing out the business you suggested was the person that fought so hard against resturant carry? Many on here may choose not to do business with him or others like him.