Discussion on posted restaurants

[Guest jcramin]

Sad news for me.

Drove by Huey's on Poplar in East Memphis, they are posted. It is a half of a sheet of paper (8 1/2 X 5.5) on the front doors. It has the circle slash with gun and then the pursuant to......verbiage below.

I just got a letter from the Prez of Huey's with the official statement of why they will not allow it. They are blaming the cost of liability insurance in the future if they have a incident with a gun and they say if something happens with a gun they will be perceived as not protecting their customers by allowing guns on their property.

[Guest db99wj]

I just got a letter from the Prez of Huey's with the official statement of why they will not allow it. They are blaming the cost of liability insurance in the future if they have a incident with a gun and they say if something happens with a gun they will be perceived as not protecting their customers by allowing guns on their property.

Yep, got the same letter.

Sent a letter to an insurance guy, this is what he said.

The insurance companies won’t take a stance on this unless claims start to change with restaurants that do or don’t put up signs.

So, as I read it, only if a problems start to occur would this be the case.

Regarding this letter, I sent this response.

Regarding liability insurance, since you have taken the stance to disarm patrons that have been deemed appropriate to carry a handgun through the proper background checks and training, if an incident occurs where a criminal shoots someone, wouldn't you also be liable for not providing security for the patrons?

Also, why hasn't this liability issue ever been a problem with other restaurants that serve in the 37 states that allow this? Why isn't this a problem with fast food restaurants, sandwich shops, family restaurants that don't serve alcohol?

Another point, why aren't your liability rates higher and do you get sued often due to DUI's, accidents and deaths caused by DUI's that have been to your restaurant and had drinks either at the bar, or with their meal?

I asked an insurance guy about this and was told that unless claims started coming in as a direct result of cases involving permit holders, that the insurance companies will not take a stance, one way or the other on this issue.

[Guest db99wj]

Received a letter from the owner of Huey's. It was a photo copy in PDF format or I would copy and paste the text. It basically said that they hated to have to publicly choose a side. Then he said that one of their biggest expenses is liability insurance and that it would go up if something happened and that they would also be perceived as not protecting their customers. He also ended with the old "guns and alcohol don't mix". I wonder if the location in Mississippi was posted before all of the TN news mania? If it wasn't, then I am sure it had plenty of patrons with guns in it at times.

Got the same letter, this was also mentioned in the sticky above on the restaurants that have posted thread. Here is my response and subsequent letter:

I just got a letter from the Prez of Huey's with the official statement of why they will not allow it. They are blaming the cost of liability insurance in the future if they have a incident with a gun and they say if something happens with a gun they will be perceived as not protecting their customers by allowing guns on their property.

Yep, got the same letter.

Sent a letter to an insurance guy, this is what he said.

The insurance companies won’t take a stance on this unless claims start to change with restaurants that do or don’t put up signs.

So, as I read it, only if a problems start to occur would this be the case.

Regarding this letter, I sent this response.

Regarding liability insurance, since you have taken the stance to disarm patrons that have been deemed appropriate to carry a handgun through the proper background checks and training, if an incident occurs where a criminal shoots someone, wouldn't you also be liable for not providing security for the patrons?

Also, why hasn't this liability issue ever been a problem with other restaurants that serve in the 37 states that allow this? Why isn't this a problem with fast food restaurants, sandwich shops, family restaurants that don't serve alcohol?

Another point, why aren't your liability rates higher and do you get sued often due to DUI's, accidents and deaths caused by DUI's that have been to your restaurant and had drinks either at the bar, or with their meal?

I asked an insurance guy about this and was told that unless claims started coming in as a direct result of cases involving permit holders, that the insurance companies will not take a stance, one way or the other on this issue.

[bubbiesdad]

ADAPT AS YOU SEE FIT:

20 July 2009

Peter Demos

Demos’ Restaurant

1115 Northwest Broad Street

Murfreesboro, TN 37129

Re: Handgun Ban

Dear Mr. Demos,

It is with regret that I write this letter. I have long enjoyed your family’s great restaurants.

I am a 41-year-old, self-employed attorney and father of two. I make a comfortable living for my family and we dine out very often. I am also a local elected official, currently serving my third term on the Board of Mayor and Aldermen in Franklin, Tennessee. I also coach and sponsor little league baseball and football teams, and do other volunteer work in the community. I have never been arrested or charged with any crime. For the last fifteen years, I have been a handgun permit holder, and I have carried a handgun every day everywhere it is legal to do so.

Your decision to ban handguns from your restaurants is, of course, your decision to make, and I trust you must have your reasons to do so. This, however, will result in me not patronizing your restaurants so long as you maintain this ban. Most of the quarter million handgun permit holders in Tennessee likely will feel the same way, and we are a very passionate and committed bunch of people. Your restaurant has already been posted as banning handguns on numerous websites frequented by handgun permit holders. Those same websites are disseminating the name and location of restaurants that do not post, as well.

As handgun permit holders are by and large exceedingly inclined to obey the law, it is unlikely you will have any permit holders violate your posted ban, we simply won’t come to your restaurants. Despite the hyperbole and hysteria disseminated in the media, so far, I have not personally encountered a single restaurant that has posted a ban, I have only read about restaurants that have posted or plan to post a ban.

I wish you well in your endeavors and invite you to reconsider your position. If you would like to discuss this matter with me, you can contact me at your convenience.

Sincerely yours,

Saw a story in today's paper

Some restaurant owners resent new gun measure Knoxville News Sentinel

NASHVILLE - One day soon, Peter Demos will post signs saying guns aren't allowed in his company's four Tennessee restaurants.

This does not make him happy.

"It irritates me that the state has put us in the position to be the bad guys," the president of the Demos' Restaurant chain said.

"We have to actively tell somebody 'No.' That's something in the hospitality industry that we don't like to do."

Demos isn't alone among the state's restaurant operators, according to industry groups, who expect roughly four out of five restaurants in the state to opt out of a new law.

The measure, which went into effect July 14, allows the state's approximately 237,750 handgun carry permit holders to take their weapons into restaurants and bars unless the establishments specifically ban them.

[Guest HexHead]

Yep, got the same letter.

Sent a letter to an insurance guy, this is what he said.

So, as I read it, only if a problems start to occur would this be the case.

Regarding this letter, I sent this response.

It's just lies on top of lies with the antis. They will say anything to try and persuade the uninformed to join their side.

There is nobody on the face of the earth will less integrity than a liberal.

Edited July 22, 2009 by HexHead

[Mike.357]

so has anyone found restaurants that do not serve alcohol that have banned guns?

[rg65]

I just got a letter from the Prez of Huey's with the official statement of why they will not allow it. They are blaming the cost of liability insurance in the future if they have a incident with a gun and they say if something happens with a gun they will be perceived as not protecting their customers by allowing guns on their property.

At least they replied to you. I sent it in on their website and have not heard back from them.

[Guest redbarron06]

so has anyone found restaurants that do not serve alcohol that have banned guns?

I have heard Waffle House but I have not seen any ever posted. I think sombody told me that there is a sign after you get in by the register. You know where you pay right before walking out.

[bubbiesdad]

I work in Donelson so I went to my favorite "lunch spot" today, DARFONS. It was posted "no guns" so I disarmed, went in and cashed in my "rewards points card". I had over 1,000 points (a dollar per point) I asked to cash it in and they asked why I was not eating there today. I told them that it was due to their posting.They thought that I was kidding. I grabbed my gift cards that I earned with their rewards card and left. My company rents a room from them for our annual Christmas parties there every year... That will no longer be the case. I will hand their gift cards out to the homless family(man, lady, and dog) that I see in Donelson on my way to work.

I went around the corner and ate at Bar-B- Cuttie. I spoke to the manager on duty as I was leaving. I thanked her for them removing their "no guns" posting. I told her that she will be getting more of my lunch money in the future and that my company would continue to use their catering service for our in-house meetings.

Short version:

Darfons Restaurant & Lounge

2810 Elm Hill Pike

Nashville, TN 37214-3718

IS POSTED "NO GUN'S" As of 07/17/09

Big thumbs up for your use of the gift cards.

[Guest db99wj]

At least they replied to you. I sent it in on their website and have not heard back from them.

They sent some out today, I would imagine they have gotten a few.

[Guest hickok]

I know I've seen it somewhere, but can somebody direct me to exactly what the proper sign looks like? I'd like to know whether I'd actually be breaking the law or not.

Thanks,

[Guest D.B. Cooper]

I know I've seen it somewhere, but can somebody direct me to exactly what the proper sign looks like? I'd like to know whether I'd actually be breaking the law or not.

I have a picture of one actually ordered from the state... can't read the text below in the pic... but it's the "Pursuant to TN... " I don't have a place to upload the pic to and can't seem to post it here...

[Daps]

Get a photobucket account and upload it there and embed it here or post the link. If you don't wanna sign up for photobucket email the pict to me and I'll do it

daps57th@yahoo.com

[Guest mustangdave]

I get APPS emails in my home account...this letter came in just a bit ago from Buford:

Thank you for writing us about your position on guns in restaurants. As a gun owner myself, I know the arguments for allowing guns. I received about 150 calls before we decided what to do with most (80-90%) saying that they would not eat with us if we allow guns. I also spoke with several police officers as well including the Chief of police in Murfreesboro. I knew no matter which way we decided, we would lose customers. Also, I knew that 80% of restaurants surveyed were going to post no guns along with shopping malls that have already decided on this issue. This was purely a business decision based on the facts that I had in front of me at the time.

It is not untruths that we "fell for," but it was based on what customers were telling us what they wanted. Now, I am hearing the opposite, and for the record, we still have not posted he signs.

I understand if you do not want to eat with us, and I really hope you change your mind. I am asking all people to please contact their state representatives and ask them to actually make a decision on guns instead of making restaurants chose.

I hope you understand that I do not want to lose a customer, and I have lost sleep over this decision. Regardless of what I choose, I am going to be wrong, and people will be disappointed in us.

Again, please help me change this law where the legislature will do the right thing instead of trying to save their chances for re-election by riding the fence.

Thank you,

Peter

peter@demosrestaurants.com

Peter Demos

President

Demos' Restaurants

1119 NW Broad St

Murfreesboro TN, 37129

615-225-8797

615-962-9285 (fax)

[Guest db99wj]

What change? What decision? The law allows it. Just like any other private business owner, they can post a sign that doesn't allow it. He is a gun owner, but doesn't understand the law, he is like the rest, being fed a load of ****.

Or have I missed something with the law?

The park thing is stupid, and yes, making them chose one way or the other...

[Guest slothful1]

I am asking all people to please contact their state representatives and ask them to actually make a decision on guns instead of making restaurants chose.

What a coward. He wants the nanny state to take all the heat instead of just making decisions for himself.

[Daps]

What 80% is he getting? To be honest I haven't seen anyplace post so far although I haven't been to a lot of places. I bet if they didn't post they wouldn't lose customers like they are saying, they are fickle and not as passion as gun owners. We'll actually pass on patronizing them.

If I was an owner I'd not post and see how many queries I get with in the next 2 months about not being posted. I bet you it will be very low but if they post I'm pretty sure they'd hear about it on a regular basis. We've wanted this for far too long to not exercise our rights.

TN thinks they are going to Nail ppl with the 100 days of summer heat, wait till us gun owners nail the restaurant owners 365 days

[Daps]

What a coward. He wants the nanny state to take all the heat instead of just making decisions for himself.

Why would I want .gov telling me I had to allow someone to carry a gun in my private business? They gave them the option it's up to them as a business decision to allow or ban guns.

[Guest HexHead]

but why would they need to be armed?? after all they have banned any guns from being on the property. Except off duty, retired, LEOs. We all know they wont break any laws dont we .

Okay, I can maybe see off-duty officers getting "special" treatment. In some jurisdictions they are required to carry when off-duty as they are never really "off".

But WTF is the deal with special privileges for retired officers? They are no more "trustworthy" than any other citizen that's undergone the background checks and been vetted by the state.

There's a retired Metro officer that lives a few doors down from me. He's crazier than a march hare. Why should he get a pass to carry anywhere he wants? How about the ones that "retire" under a cloud of suspicion? I'd be far more concerned by some ex-cops than I would an HCP holder.

[Guest mustangdave]

Why would I want .gov telling me I had to allow someone to carry a gun in my private business? They gave them the option it's up to them as a business decision to allow or ban guns.

Easy...it absolves them of any responsibility for making a decision...bottom line for these restaurant owners...its not about the people...its about $$$...as for Demo's...I went there once and was NOT impressed...never been back.

[Daps]

Oh I have no doubt it's about $$$ people are just chumps now a days. No one wants to own up to anything...

[Guest db99wj]

What a coward. He wants the nanny state to take all the heat instead of just making decisions for himself.

Okay, I can maybe see off-duty officers getting "special" treatment. In some jurisdictions they are required to carry when off-duty as they are never really "off".

But WTF is the deal with special privileges for retired officers? They are no more "trustworthy" than any other citizen that's undergone the background checks and been vetted by the state.

There's a retired Metro officer that lives a few doors down from me. He's crazier than a march hare. Why should he get a pass to carry anywhere he wants? How about the ones that "retire" under a cloud of suspicion? I'd be far more concerned by some ex-cops than I would an HCP holder.

I'm thinking the equals sarcasm in that post.

[Guest HexHead]

What 80% is he getting? To be honest I haven't seen anyplace post so far although I haven't been to a lot of places. I bet if they didn't post they wouldn't lose customers like they are saying, they are fickle and not as passion as gun owners. We'll actually pass on patronizing them.

Liberals are great at running their mouths, but have no backbone to actually follow through with anything.

[Guest db99wj]

Liberals are great at running their mouths, but have no backbone to actually follow through with anything.

or facts.

[Daps]

Liberals are great at running their mouths, but have no backbone to actually follow through with anything.

or facts.