SBR Engraving

[mcordell]

Anyone in the area do engraving?

Knoxville/Chattanooga/Cleveland

I would prefer to not ship it off to be engraved if it can be done locally

[Lumber_Jack]

Mike at Law Enforcement Sales told me he can do it. His website lists Oak Ridge but he is on the south west side. You could be at his shop in the same drive as going to Knoxville proper.

[mcordell]

Mike at Law Enforcement Sales told me he can do it. His website lists Oak Ridge but he is on the south west side. You could be at his shop in the same drive as going to Knoxville proper.

Thank you sir!

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

Be happy to help when you're ready. I don't have a laser engraver but I do them on my CNC VMC.  Good enough for govt. work ;o)

 

PM me if you'd like to discuss specifics.

 

Thx

[Marm]

Mercury Engraving in Knoxville does really good work. They can do both traditional and laser engraving while you wait for $25 - $30.

[Guest semiautots]

I just got my first ever Form 1 back on a SBR and I did not put on the form a different identifying serial number in section 4h.  It was approved with only a serial number in 4g, that of the receiver as numbered by the original manufacturer.

 

Is this normal?

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

ATF allows you to use any markings that already exist on the receiver.  Normally, folks will use the model, cailber and serial # of the original manuf so all they're engraving new is their NAME and CITY/STATE.

 

You CAN create all new markings but it's not necessary.. 4H would be where you put any additional markings you'd like to disclose but it's the least important out of the series... you must have NAME/CITY/STATE/MODEL/CALIBER and SERIAL #.

[Guest semiautots]

ATF allows you to use any markings that already exist on the receiver.  Normally, folks will use the model, cailber and serial # of the original manuf so all they're engraving new is their NAME and CITY/STATE.

 

You CAN create all new markings but it's not necessary.. 4H would be where you put any additional markings you'd like to disclose but it's the least important out of the series... you must have NAME/CITY/STATE/MODEL/CALIBER and SERIAL #.

 

So ATF does not know whatever serial number I choose?  Seems like they would like to keep track by serial number.  They put you on your honor not to reuse serial numbers?  Seems like I could leave my identifying number  off the receiver and just shoot the gun.  A local cop is not going to know what a form 4 or form 1 are, and will check only the serial number of the receiver as placed by the original manufacturer.  I then put the gun back to original length upon completion of shooting.

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

They DO care what number you use but they record what you put in 4g NOT 4h. Using the original serial number IS acceptable and is the norm, not the exception. But you can issue a new one if you so choose. Serial numbers are not unique. It's manuf, model, caliber and serial. I would not suggest duplicating serials for multiple guns that YOU make but as long as all 4 parts are not identical it will fly. Point being the serial number they'll place on the registry will come from what you put in 4g and what you put in 4g had better be on the gun. If you took original gun serial 1 and when you filed you put serial 234 in 4g, 234 had better be engraved on the gun. You could have made reference to serial 1 in 4h if you like. As far as honor, you can do what you'd like but I'd highly suggest you have an approved form 1 (copy is fine) with you when you shoot if you're carrying a NFA weapon. A little to your point, you can legally put a 16" barrel back on your gun and it is no longer a SBR. You can carry it interstate legally and shoot somewhere else. Come back home and reinstall your short barrel.

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="LawEnforcementSalesTN" post="1131970" timestamp="1396185615"]They DO care what number you use but they record what you put in 4g NOT 4h. Using the original serial number IS acceptable and is the norm, not the exception. But you can issue a new one if you so choose. Serial numbers are not unique. It's manuf, model, caliber and serial. I would not suggest duplicating serials for multiple guns that YOU make but as long as all 4 parts are not identical it will fly. Point being the serial number they'll place on the registry will come from what you put in 4g and what you put in 4g had better be on the gun. If you took original gun serial 1 and when you filed you put serial 234 in 4g, 234 had better be engraved on the gun. You could have made reference to serial 1 in 4h if you like. As far as honor, you can do what you'd like but I'd highly suggest you have an approved form 1 (copy is fine) with you when you shoot if you're carrying a NFA weapon. A little to your point, you can legally put a 16" barrel back on your gun and it is no longer a SBR. You can carry it interstate legally and shoot somewhere else. Come back home and reinstall your short barrel.[/quote] Not so sure about that - the receiver, when registered through the NFA is an SBR - the barrel length becomes moot. Prudence would have you properly notify ATF in you move the SBR out of state

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

Not so sure about that - the receiver, when registered through the NFA is an SBR - the barrel length becomes moot. Prudence would have you properly notify ATF in you move the SBR out of state

 

Not talking about moving or transporting a 'NFA' item across state lines WHEN in NFA configuration...I'm talking about it is perfectly legal to place a 16" (or longer) barrel (temporarily) on your SBR registered lower and drive to a buddy's house across state lines - no notification is necessary... come back and put your short barrel back on.  Point is a SBR is ONLY a SBR when it has a short barrel.  Unlike a machine gun, once a machine gun always a machinegun, SBRs, SBSs and AOWs are only regulated when in the offending NFA configurations.

 

SBR Barrel length only matters when it's < 16"

 

But yes, If you're permanently (moving) or temporarily transporting a SBR across state lines (interstate) in it's SBR configuration you MUST get prior approval on an ATF 5320. 

Edited March 30, 2014 by LawEnforcementSalesTN

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="LawEnforcementSalesTN" post="1132063" timestamp="1396200299"]Not talking about moving or transporting a 'NFA' item across state lines WHEN in NFA configuration...I'm talking about it is perfectly legal to place a 16" (or longer) barrel (temporarily) on your SBR registered lower and drive to a buddy's house across state lines - no notification is necessary... come back and put your short barrel back on. Point is a SBR is ONLY a SBR when it has a short barrel. Unlike a machine gun, once a machine gun always a machinegun, SBRs, SBSs and AOWs are only regulated when in the offending NFA configurations. SBR Barrel length only matters when it's < 16" But yes, If you're permanently (moving) or temporarily transporting a SBR across state lines (interstate) in it's SBR configuration you MUST get prior approval on an ATF 5320. [/quote] Do you have any regs you can refer me to on this? Would like to understand further - thanks

[Guest semiautots]

Do you have any regs you can refer me to on this? Would like to understand further - thanks

 

ATF regs are all online.

 

http://www.atf.gov/

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

More specifically Hersh....

 

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html

 

looks like their nomenclature has been updated since my last reading... use to be more blatenly clear (I'll try to find my old ATF NFA handbook) .. they've also added all that maintain control BS, I see the doc is dated Nov 2013...

 

But anyhoo...this is how I've always understood it to be, how I'm sure it once was, and how everyone I personally known in the field for the last 25 years I've been dealing with NFA operated... whether it still is, who knows... take if for what's it worth.  I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV ;o)

 

My understanding ...

 

1) IS 100% ok for registrant (only) to temporarily add 16" barrel, travel across state lines and come back and reconfigure to SBR status (IF it was legal prior) - as is relates for 5320 puposes AND IF the < 16" barrel parts are not kept with the SBR'd lower or in immediate control during the transport

 

2) IS 100% ok to add 16" barrel to SBR weapon and then sell the weapon as a standard title 1 weapon ... pending the non SBR form is legal.  ATF asks but does not require that registrant sends a letter to branch explaining SBR is no longer a SBR,etc... I do recommend doing this but again, it has never been a requirement but a request.

 

3) is NOT ok to add 16" barrel and registrant temporarily loan weapon to friend, etc then bring back and reconfigure..... THIS would be considered a transfer per GCA and thusly the reconfiguring of SBR would require a new Form 1.

 

4) Destructive Devices (DDs) and Machineguns are the only NFA types that cannot revert back to their previous status.  Their removal from the NFA registry is only thru destruction of the item per ATF specs (torching receiver in 3 parts, etc.)  This thusly left SBSs and AOWs in the same category as SBRs.

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="LawEnforcementSalesTN" post="1132171" timestamp="1396222180"]More specifically Hersh.... [url="http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html"]http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html[/url] looks like their nomenclature has been updated since my last reading... use to be more blatenly clear (I'll try to find my old ATF NFA handbook) .. they've also added all that maintain control BS, I see the doc is dated Nov 2013... But anyhoo...this is how I've always understood it to be, how I'm sure it once was, and how everyone I personally known in the field for the last 25 years I've been dealing with NFA operated... whether it still is, who knows... take if for what's it worth. I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV ;o) My understanding ... 1) IS 100% ok for registrant (only) to temporarily add 16" barrel, travel across state lines and come back and reconfigure to SBR status (IF it was legal prior) - as is relates for 5320 puposes AND IF the < 16" barrel parts are not kept with the SBR'd lower or in immediate control during the transport 2) IS 100% ok to add 16" barrel to SBR weapon and then sell the weapon as a standard title 1 weapon ... pending the non SBR form is legal. ATF asks but does not require that registrant sends a letter to branch explaining SBR is no longer a SBR,etc... I do recommend doing this but again, it has never been a requirement but a request. 3) is NOT ok to add 16" barrel and registrant temporarily loan weapon to friend, etc then bring back and reconfigure..... THIS would be considered a transfer per GCA and thusly the reconfiguring of SBR would require a new Form 1. 4) Destructive Devices (DDs) and Machineguns are the only NFA types that cannot revert back to their previous status. Their removal from the NFA registry is only thru destruction of the item per ATF specs (torching receiver in 3 parts, etc.) This thusly left SBSs and AOWs in the same category as SBRs.[/quote] Thanks - clear as mud of course: "Q: If I remove the short barrel from my SBR or SBS, may I move the firearm across state lines without the submission of ATF Form 5320.20, Application to Transport or to Temporarily Export Certain Firearms? If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law."

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

Thanks - clear as mud of course: "Q: If I remove the short barrel from my SBR or SBS, may I move the firearm across state lines without the submission of ATF Form 5320.20, Application to Transport or to Temporarily Export Certain Firearms? If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law."

 

Yeah exactly ...

 

they use to not have that "retains control" verbiage ... some (as myself) still take that as immediate control

 

Take this for instance, currently STILL on that same set of FAQs ...

 

Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm?

Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA “firearm” is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn’t comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.

 

The original removal of barrel quesiton USE to read very similar ... they've changed it significantly but as they stated above, a weapon that does not meet the definition... a 16" barrel no longer meets that definition .