E4 No More

Nothing to be ashamed of if you cried. You wouldn't be human if you didn't cry. I cried so hard that I couldn't pay the bill. My wife had to do it while I waited in the truck.

Sure! Let's bring a tire tool to a gunfight! That'll work out for you. I don't know about Tennessee offhand, but where I was a policeman you'd better be able to prove that you were on your way to a ballgame or just fixed a flat.

We'll just have to agree to disagree in principle. Your last point is completely wrong, because if you rent a house the landlord has control over what you do on that property; not you. I've lived in apartments that disallowed firearms completely. PS: The law has many rules telling an employer what they can and cannot do.

I don't agree with paying income tax, but I'm certainly forced to...right?

No weapons of any kind are allowed, and no public parking is available at all. That pretty much covers it at my work unless you want to bring a 4" pocket knife to a gunfight. To be clear, I'm not worried about my safety at work. I'm not even worried about going to and from work, for I do not travel through bad neighborhoods. Even if I had the right to keep my handgun locked in my truck at work I would not do so. But that doesn't mean everyone works in the same situation as I. But I do not believe an employer's property rights trump an employee's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Some try to draw an analogy to their home, and the difference is your home is not open to the general public to conduct business, (granted, with some exceptions). Isn't that why there's zoning laws in most areas? And yes, if I were running a business out of my home I would expect to not have the right to control what is inside my customer's personal property. When I ran my business I didn't make my customers walk through metal detectors in order to enter, and I sure as heck didn't search their cars. It was none of my business. Right to privacy anyone? You see, I see the employee's car as an extension of their home, and I see the parking lot as a transition point of their right to privacy to my property rights, (excluding the point that a majority of businesses do not own the property in which they conduct business; they lease or rent). When neither has the right to trump another's right, then a transition point must exist, and I believe that point is the parking lot; not the home or the building in which business is conducted.

They aren't liable. Can you name one person who got more than what Workmen's Compensation gave them from a spouse's death? They aren't worried about law-suits; they are worried about their insurance rates and losses due to employee theft. If someone wants to go postal on your business you can post all the danged signs and make all the rules that you want to, but it won't make a difference at all. Although I was an employer at one time I am not big on employer rights. I practiced what I preach: What was in my employee's vehicle was their business and their responsibility.

Sorry for you lost. I know exactly how you feel. It took me 17 years to get another dog, (Rottweiller). I still have a tendency to call him "Max" rather than "Ti".

Humm, doesn't "keep" and "bear" go hand-in-hand in the Constitution?

Like I said, make the employer liable for the employee's safety and I'll have no problem with your stance. Rights come with responsibilities, and responsibilities come with consequences for failure to act responsibly.

There are some local governments that have banned smoking in your own apartment. I believe that it was in Commiefornia where this happened. Well stated Fallguy.

So you agree that an employer has no right to risk an employee's safety? You know...LIFE, Liberty, etc.

Making other arrangements simply isn't possible for everyone, so your argument is unrealistic. You have the right to free speech, but you don't have the right to falsely shout "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. In other words, your rights do not extend you the right to risk another's safety. This can be debated all day long, and I don't think that it'll change anyone's opinion. The government will do what they want to do. I don't think that they have the right to regulate the toilet water in my house, but they certainly do.

Question: Do you think an employer's property rights supercede your right to life? To me it's not a matter of picking one over the other. If you want to hold employers civily liable for the protection of their employees from the time that they leave for work to the time they get home, then I'm with you. But they aren't liable. Even if you are killed while on the clock it is covered by Workmen's Compensation Laws and insurance. So the guy's wife gets a percentage of his salary until she remarries or dies. Ask me how I know this. Security is there to control employee theft and reduce insurance premiums, and that's all.

So "Made in Taiwan" is ok? For me it's the system; not the people that I have a problem with.

I didn't care enough to look past the welcome screen. Joke or not it's noy funny. Ironic, perhaps, but not funny.

Just as police have no duty to protect you, neither do security guards. If you think that the employer has them there for you then you are delusional.

As a former police officer and someone who worked for a short while at ADT, I would say the alarm should be the last thing you want. They have a reputation for false alarms that are delayed. In other words, if the alarm goes off you get a call from the alarm company to see if you tripped it by accident. That process can take several minutes in and of itself. If you live in a busy area, (as in police calls), or a rural area your response time can be an hour. Don't think the theives don't know this. The police have an attitude of, "Oh, god! Another stupid alarm call!" Not something that gets a good response. Fear comes from video and sound stored off-site. It records the crime to be used against them in court, and you can set the cameras up so that they can't tell where it is. Unless you get a newby in the burglary business, the burglar is known in the police records, and they don't want a picture causing their speedy arrest. Unless you poison-train your dog, they are useless too. Poison training is not hard if you use bitter-root spray and read a how-to book. Some breeds are more protective and intimidating than others, so select your breed well. I have a Rottweiller myself. Anyway, that's my opinion, and you know what they say about them.

I just love how he super-imposed the hammer and sickle over the Capital Building. May he die a painful death at the hands of a fellow proletariate.

Personally, I'm tired of our military being used as the world's police force, and it should be up to others to carry their share of the load.

Mark: I hope you don't mind, but I plagerized some of your post on another forum of mine.

As far as rights are concerned, let me point out that you have the right to freedom of speach: however, that right has its limits. You do not have the right to put others at risk with said freedom. You cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, for instance.

P.S. I don't hunt because I can't stand deer meat. I do think the population should be kept in check since I see deer splattered all over the roadways all over this area and Kentucky, and the vehicle hitting one could be mine in the future. In seriousness, I think the meat should feed the hungry who want it rather than let it rot.

That works! Now if we can just expose them. Gun's too noisy. Perhaps walk around carrying a baseball bat underneath a fur coat?

I think that PETA will have a fit, but the Turkey Vultures gotta eat too.

I just wonder if "reorganization" means the same in Russia as it does in China: The CEO is taken out and shot!