DaveTN

I’m not sure what you are asking but here are some opinions on what you posted. Dope is illegal. The penalties keep getting tougher and tougher; hasn’t slowed it down any. People have been making AK’s and AR’s full auto for years. When they caught they get sent to jail. The real question is how many of these illegally converted weapons have actually been fired during the commission of a crime. I’m guessing the number is pretty miniscule. I would rather see spray and pray from an AK or a .223 than a shooter on high ground with a scoped .308 or 30-06 bolt. He may not fire as many rounds but he would have a much higher kill count. So if semi’s are banned how long to you think it would be before “hunting rifles†are banned. Illinois is trying to ban ALL .50 caliber rifles; and I would bet that no one in Illinois has been killed with a .50 cal. (Other than a muzzle loader) As a cop I saw parents do far worse things with their kids than strap a gun on them. An argument could be made that is not as bad and thinking that spending quality time with your kids is teaching them to kill animals for sport. The core problem is not guns; the core problem is jobs. If the government can make a lot of noise about guns and drugs they don’t have to talk so much about what is causing the problem. The more jobs we lose to the “global economy†the higher our crime rate will go. More Cops, firemen and medical personnel will be needed with fewer people to pay the bills. But you have to remember if someone has it in their mind that guns are the problem; facts won’t usually matter.

Illinois’s problem could become Tennessee’s problem. Barrack Obama is as anti-gun as you can get. He wants to ban ALL semi-auto weapons and wants more “possession restrictionsâ€. Now since Illinois does not have carry permits and the only people carrying legally are cops; I would have to say he wants to limit what the people of Illinois can have in their homes. Barrack wants to create a whole new group of criminals from law abiding citizens. That way his supporters will have more people to try out their social programs on.

I moved here from champaign. But I have lived all over central Illinois.

I don’t know. But I’m absolutely sure it would not equal jail time if 165,000 people showed up. <O:p</O:p But if that the case… no it probably wouldn’t help the cause. Maybe this idea sucks after all. <O:p</O:p

The purpose is visibility to the legislators that have given you your privileges and make decisions about pending firearm legislation. It’s not so the public can see you in your BDU, Bloused boots, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City>Miami</st1:City> classic shoulder holster with two S&W 500’s and mirrored sunglasses. I don’t know that it has ever happened; hence I said <st1:stockticker>WAG</st1:stockticker>.

I prefer manual safeties and magazine disconnects for semi-auto carry firearms.

They would be on national news and you would lose your carry privileges. That’s just my <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:stockticker>WAG</st1:stockticker> though.

The state of Illinois does not have a motorcycle helmet law. Now how you feel about wearing a helmet is not the point here, the point is WHY Illinois does not have a helmet law. One day a year (in May) motorcycles riders gather in groups all across the state. They meet in one place on the outskirts of Springfield Illinois and the ride in an orderly procession into the Capitol. The citizens of Springfield line the route. Officers from Springfield PD, the Sheriff’s Office and Illinois State Police block the intersections so the procession doesn’t have to stop at lights. They park all around the capitol and hang out on the lawn. When legislators look out their windows they see a sea of votes. Some of them even participate in the ride. And that is why Illinois does not have a Hemet law. What if once a year 165,000 carry permit holders and their supporters had a little get together at the capitol here?

No “Doom & Gloom†on my part man…. If I were any happier I wouldn’t be able to stand it. I have never said that I don’t believe that I have a RIGHT to bear arms. I just am absolutely sure it doesn’t come from or have anything to do with the second amendment. Get back on my feet and do what? I’m doing it man….. I would like to see carry legislation for my home state of Illinois, I would also like to see talks start on a Federal Carry Permit (Just like retired cops just got). But you can’t have productive, intelligent conversation with law makers when the pro gun folks want to start talking about the second amendment…. You will be stopped dead in your tracks.

You are dead on. If someone here would like to start naming the appeals courts that have ruled the 2nd is an individual right, I will start naming the ones that have ruled it is not. They will be out of District numbers and I will have most of them left. The fact of the matter is that there is only one court ruling that matters….. The Supreme Court. I am sure that the ruling they make will not be popular here. As the lawyers always say; don’t ask a question you don’t already know the answer to.

I’m not upset about it. I just find it amusing when people talk about rights that they do not have. Rights do not come with a $150-250 price tag…. Privileges do. There are a few of us here that moved from states that did not allow carry of any kind. You need to know exactly why you are allowed to carry and who is allowing you to carry. Your Tennessee legislators are why you can carry; it is a privilege and has nothing to do with rights. It could all change with an election.

Homosexuals and minorities have rights, you do not you have a right you have the privilege that the state of Tennessee has given you. Just like a drivers license; no more, no less. I am not saying this right; just that it is fact. Neither is getting arrested.

Are you saying that you don’t think anyone in Tennessee has been arrested for open carry? Why do you think the AG wrote that opinion? Also just because the cops take down someone at gun point doesn’t mean it was because they were open carrying. They may have been suspects in something else. Also, he didn’t say they were arrested; just checked out.

If the most highly trained firearms person that you knew, someone that you had the utmost respect for told you that it didn’t matter to him how you carry but that in his opinion open carry was one of the dumbest things that you could do; and then went on to explain why; would you think that he may be trying to educate you or would you think that he was “Turning on his own� Tennessee law is not clear on open carry. That is why the State Attorney General wrote an opinion on it. I see open carry as a fail safe for the carry permit holder that accidentally exposes his weapon. It would be a shame to lose it.

Another reason… and the biggest in my opinion. Big businesses that have law firms on retainer are going to ask the lawyers what they should do. If you shoot someone in a businesses whether you are right or wrong the probability is high that there is going to be a civil suit. And guess who the “Deep Pockets†will be? Why would any business want to bear the burden of your decision making in a shooting situation…. That would be insane. If I owned a business (and I don’t) that wasn’t firearms related I would post a sign that carry is not allowed. I would overlook concealed carry even if I noticed it, but if someone was open carrying I would ask them to leave. It may not help much, but it can’t hurt. In my personal opinion it is a liability issue, not an issue of whether or not a business owner likes firearms.

But you being in denial and trying to tell people that they have rights that they do not have does not help any of us. I have said before that I believe I have a right to carry; the courts do not agree. But I am absolutely positive that my right does not come from or have anything to do with the 2nd amendment. There is nothing wrong with having a passion for something whether you understand it or not as long as you do no harm. There are all kinds of 2nd amendment groups that you can join and be active in. The only possible end to the 2nd amendment argument will be when the SCOTUS rules on whether or not the 2nd is an individual right. I am sure in my own mind what that ruling will be. By the same authority that they use to arrest drunk drivers, armed robbers and wife beaters. You do not get to pick and choose the laws that you obey. Threatening or implying that you would use force against anyone (up to an including Police Officers) that you perceive of violating a right that you do not have makes us all look like idiots. Most citizens reading what you have posted would hold you up as an example of the next VT shooter and call for stiffer gun laws.

Get one of your friends or family that doesn’t have a permit to strap on a firearm in open carry and go walking around with you. Rights don’t require permits. Talk is cheap. I’m curious… how long have you had a carry permit?

I’m not sure what law you want to change; open carry is legal in Tennessee if you have a permit. However… the debate will never end. The debate isn’t over legality, the debate between gun owners is whether or not it is a good idea (that’s up to you), and whether or not we (as a group) think it is a good idea to get into a pizzing match with those who either fear; or just don’t like it that it is legal. How do you think the carry laws would do if it was put on a ballot in a general election? I don’t know which way it would go, but I know its close enough that I would not want to force the issue. But I have a question… Are you truly surprised that you get negative responses when you open carry? Call Kroger corporate and complain. I for one would be interested in what they say. My WAG would be that they will politely tell you that the will not override the decision of the store manager. In 10 years Tennessee has issued permits to a number of people equal to less than 3% of the population. Hardly a number anyone will care about. I tried to ship a gun through UPS in Murfreesboro. When I declared it at the counter of the terminal the guy said he had to get the “Security Officerâ€. The shipment was perfectly legal and did not violate any UPS policy. (I was shipping a shot gun to Chattanooga). I called UPS corporate. The first girl I talked with told me that she didn’t know much about guns except that they scared her and she wanted nothing to do with them. I then talked with a supervisor and he would not over ride the decision of the guy at UPS. I drove it to Chattanooga.

That is exactly where I believe my right to bear arms comes from. The courts have stood me in front of them and explained to me personally that while I may believe I have a right to bear arms; I do not. I can’t afford to go through that again. So one of you need to step up and try the “right to life†argument. Any takers?

Having a carry permit and carrying whether it be open or concealed is not a right in the state of Tennessee. It is a privilege given you by your state legislators and if it becomes a problem; they will deal with it.

You know Jerry Miculek?

S&W did a remarkable job with the M&P. Options aren’t even an issue; get it however you want it. Most people don’t seem to care, but every piece of the M&P including the magazine is made in America; that was important to me.

Don’t knock the open carry guys. When the armed bad guys arrive on the scene the OC guys will get the attention they desperately seek giving the concealed carry guys extra time to take control of the situation.

That is very important. When I sold my Kimber and bought an S&W a few friends wondered what was wrong with the Kimber. Nothing really, I just didn’t like the finish and wanted a stainless gun. S&W has never failed me in over 35 years, and their customer service is the mark my which other gun manufacturers are measured…. So I went with them. So since you are buying based on Customer service which S&W do you think you will get?

That isn't what I meant.